Carlisle not offered new contract

[therabbitinthehat]

Was by far our best backman when fit, and was one of the main differences between first half of last year's results and this year's.

[bangaulegend]

Has spent the last years 2 battling injury problems & had a interrupted start because he was a tool. I agree when he was fit & firing was very handy but unfortunately we really only got a 2 good years out of him all up

[Ghost Like]

Was by far our best backman when fit, and was one of the main differences between first half of last year's results and this year's.

Was by far our best Essendon deal, it used to be Hind but that backfired, but it was still sh!thouse & made our recruiters / deal makers look like amateurs.

Again, rule 1 (& only), do not deal with Essendon. They did not use drugs because they can be trusted!

[Scollop]

Carlislse was good, though. Got no support from admin when being pilloried for sledging -- the horror!

Carlisle came to St Kilda because he was pissed off with Essendon for lying to him and using him as an experiment for their drugs program (just like Ryder was too and he went to Port Adelaide).

It was a risky trade at the time because with sanctions hanging over their heads it meant we were without his services for the first full year that he was officially a Saint (and same for other Dons players who requested a trade out of the club that used them and deceived them)

The issue of Carlisle wanting to be a permanent defender was also part of the lure that got him to the Saints, because his former coach publicly announced that Jake preferred to play back, but as an Essendon player he was employed to play wherever the coach thought it was best for Essendon.

So we were getting a player that had baggage.

I believe he was looked after by Saints and perhaps even got his own way with Richo never seriously putting the question to Jake regarding playing as a permanent forward.

I think Richo was too soft on Jake and I couldn't stand how many times he allowed him to play as loose defender who had no direct opponent. He did play a lot of very good games for us, but I don't think he was best utiilsed with his great height and marking abilities

Ironic that you raise the issue of that infamous Carlton game. Maybe Carlisle felt betrayed again by a football club for the second time.

I'm of the view like Mark Thompson (his coach at Essendon in the year before he was suspended be ASADA) that Jake should have been played as a permanent forward. His height and abilities in the air and his very good kicking skills were a lot more damaging to opponents than just being a backman

I think at his peak that Jake was easily the equivalent of a guy like Jeremy Cameron or maybe perhaps Tom Lynch at the Tigers.

I think the Essendon drugs saga was tragic for many individuals and I don't think Jake got the best out of his very very elite talents

[Teflon]

Was by far our best backman when fit, and was one of the main differences between first half of last year's results and this year's.

Was by far our best Essendon deal, it used to be Hind but that backfired, but it was still sh!thouse & made our recruiters / deal makers look like amateurs.

Again, rule 1 (& only), do not deal with Essendon. They did not use drugs because they can be trusted!

Not a deal but I always liked Milne off their rookie list..

[B.M]

Carlisle

Very overrated, had 1 reasonable season and has either been injured or struggling.

I think we like the idea of Carlisle (the big strong CHB) who takes a decent grab - is what the seduction is

He is like the anti-Lonie

Reality is, he was a relatively poor 1 on 1 defender (rag dolled by Hawkins) had an average attitude.

What’d he play
40 games? Probably made the top ten in B&F once

And we think Seb Ross is s***

History will show who was the better Saint

[mad saint guy]

We were always a better team with Carlisle in it. He certainly didn't reach his potential with us and unfortunately his body is cooked. Thanks Jake, all the best.

[B.M]

Very underwhelming career at StK

66 games
About 12ppg

Maybe 1 top ten B&F finish?!

He could play, but lacked intensity and physicality

[minneapolis]

He seemed to me to always do "just enough". Cruising I suppose. I never warmed to him.

It makes the Howard trade golden as well.

[SaintDippa]

Great hands, one grabber. Did was he was traded to provide. Last games couldn't kick. Back shot. Worms ducked. Gave up pick 5 to get him (Darcy Parish). Not going there on what if.

[Banger9798]

Bye Jake.

Did he fulfil his potential in his AFL career, i thought he was going to be so much better than he was.

Exactly, with his attributes he could have been an A+ player.
Rarely got out of 2nd gear.
One of the best readers of the ball in flight, great hands, and physically a huge dude.

[Yorkeys]

We have plenty of stories of unfulfilled promised. Is it the nature of AFL or are we bad at managing and identifying talent. If so lets make it past tense.

Warning bells when coaches at Essendon said he was difficult. When he was sprung doing drugs in US just as he signed with Saints (not just the drugs, not puritanical we all get down, but being filmed doing it I thought a little dumb and there is the question of drug tests/suspensions).

No doubt about Jake's physical and athletic attributes until recent seasons, but some in regard to being a serious professional in his attitude and approach to teamwork (?). Was never sure about that and I suspect you need both even if you have a hard man/bad man persona like Dusty and D. Swan.

As Max K mentioned on the website the future is him, Connolly, Higgins, Marshall, Sharman, Clark, Coffield, Paton, Byrnes, hopefully Bytel, Highmore, Wilkie, Howard, Heath et al. Might be a good thing to actually wash all of the pre Ratts period stuff through the system to give these young men clear sailing space. Noting it is mean spirited, would not mind if Dan H retired as well. Can't see evidence he is a positive influence in any form (?), is he.

[Scollop]

As Max K mentioned on the website the future is him, Connolly, Higgins, Marshall, Sharman, Clark, Coffield, Paton, Byrnes, hopefully Bytel, Highmore, Wilkie, Howard, Heath et al.

Did he mention each person individually?

[B.M]

So we are rebuilding again!!!!!

Most of those kids have only shown glimpses, and are a mile off being consistent AFL players

I suggest not, I suggest a reload and put the best list possible together and play the best players

[Yorkeys]

1. Max did mention most, but I've taken the liberty of interpreting what the sub editor probably took out. Just hoped you wouldn't read the article.

2. Rebuild (not my word), reload, same sentiment; as long as its not rehash eh, and the bullets are blanks, again. Just hope for improvement.

[B.M]

Rebuild = start again
Reload = go again

[saynta]

We have plenty of stories of unfulfilled promised. Is it the nature of AFL or are we bad at managing and identifying talent. If so lets make it past tense.

Warning bells when coaches at Essendon said he was difficult. When he was sprung doing drugs in US just as he signed with Saints (not just the drugs, not puritanical we all get down, but being filmed doing it I thought a little dumb and there is the question of drug tests/suspensions).

No doubt about Jake's physical and athletic attributes until recent seasons, but some in regard to being a serious professional in his attitude and approach to teamwork (?). Was never sure about that and I suspect you need both even if you have a hard man/bad man persona like Dusty and D. Swan.

As Max K mentioned on the website the future is him, Connolly, Higgins, Marshall, Sharman, Clark, Coffield, Paton, Byrnes, hopefully Bytel, Highmore, Wilkie, Howard, Heath et al. Might be a good thing to actually wash all of the pre Ratts period stuff through the system to give these young men clear sailing space. Noting it is mean spirited, would not mind if Dan H retired as well. Can't see evidence he is a positive influence in any form (?), is he.

f***. What do you mean "we all get down."? That is f****** insulting.

[B.M]

What makes Dusty, Swan and Carlisle hard men?

Tattoos

Every tradie and hipster and wannabe footballer has stickers nowadays

Swan was a ball player and hard runner
Martin is a fair player with a good fend
Carlisle IMO looked like Tarzan and played like Jane. Don’t remember seeing him do one tough thing when playing

[Moods]

We have plenty of stories of unfulfilled promised. Is it the nature of AFL or are we bad at managing and identifying talent. If so lets make it past tense.

Warning bells when coaches at Essendon said he was difficult. When he was sprung doing drugs in US just as he signed with Saints (not just the drugs, not puritanical we all get down, but being filmed doing it I thought a little dumb and there is the question of drug tests/suspensions).

No doubt about Jake's physical and athletic attributes until recent seasons, but some in regard to being a serious professional in his attitude and approach to teamwork (?). Was never sure about that and I suspect you need both even if you have a hard man/bad man persona like Dusty and D. Swan.

As Max K mentioned on the website the future is him, Connolly, Higgins, Marshall, Sharman, Clark, Coffield, Paton, Byrnes, hopefully Bytel, Highmore, Wilkie, Howard, Heath et al. Might be a good thing to actually wash all of the pre Ratts period stuff through the system to give these young men clear sailing space. Noting it is mean spirited, would not mind if Dan H retired as well. Can't see evidence he is a positive influence in any form (?), is he.

f***. What do you mean "we all get down."? That is f****** insulting.

I don’t find it insulting. Just laughable

[MCG-Unit]

Great hands, one grabber. Did was he was traded to provide. Last games couldn't kick. Back shot. Worms ducked. Gave up pick 5 to get him (Darcy Parish). Not going there on what if.

Yes Parish, that's the trade I was thinking of. DP #5 One of the best mids now.

Anyway I reckon Carlisle was quite good when not injured. I'll go with those who say, the side looked better when he was out there - when they played him

[kosifantutti]

Great hands, one grabber. Did was he was traded to provide. Last games couldn't kick. Back shot. Worms ducked. Gave up pick 5 to get him (Darcy Parish). Not going there on what if.

Pick 6 Aaron Francis. It may have been pick 5 bumped down to pick 6 but it was Francis not Parish they took with the pick from us.

[kosifantutti]

[saynta]

We have plenty of stories of unfulfilled promised. Is it the nature of AFL or are we bad at managing and identifying talent. If so lets make it past tense.

Warning bells when coaches at Essendon said he was difficult. When he was sprung doing drugs in US just as he signed with Saints (not just the drugs, not puritanical we all get down, but being filmed doing it I thought a little dumb and there is the question of drug tests/suspensions).

No doubt about Jake's physical and athletic attributes until recent seasons, but some in regard to being a serious professional in his attitude and approach to teamwork (?). Was never sure about that and I suspect you need both even if you have a hard man/bad man persona like Dusty and D. Swan.

As Max K mentioned on the website the future is him, Connolly, Higgins, Marshall, Sharman, Clark, Coffield, Paton, Byrnes, hopefully Bytel, Highmore, Wilkie, Howard, Heath et al. Might be a good thing to actually wash all of the pre Ratts period stuff through the system to give these young men clear sailing space. Noting it is mean spirited, would not mind if Dan H retired as well. Can't see evidence he is a positive influence in any form (?), is he.

f***. What do you mean "we all get down."? That is f****** insulting.

I don’t find it insulting. Just laughable

f****** stupid thing to say.

[ace]

Great hands, one grabber. Did was he was traded to provide. Last games couldn't kick. Back shot. Worms ducked. Gave up pick 5 to get him (Darcy Parish). Not going there on what if.

NO NO NO

Not Darcy Parish.
Essendon already had the Parish pick.
St Kilda gave Essendon the next pick that they used on Aaron Francis.

It is time that this Darcy Parish lie was killed once and for all.

[roskilde]

Shame. I thought he showed a lot of grit and skill in that game pinch hitting as a ruckman against WC early in the year. Best of luck to the big guy in retirement.

Another addition to the endless 'what if' pile of St. Kilda players.

Wish that pile was a bit smaller.