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sunsaint wrote: ↑Mon 28 Dec 2020 6:37pm
the trade result on paper was a disaster - yes
but spider burnt a few bridges at the saints
I know that Spider was an A grade corkhead and a disruptive influence, however I still believe he could've made the difference in 2004-5. GT couldn't wait to get rid of him. Bundy wasn't a fan either.
Barry Brooks could've been a good player but did his ACL and never recovered psychologically. It was his "jumping leg" and his impressive leap was never the same. He lost all confidence and we all know the rest.
Given we missed out on a young, frustrated Dean Cox through an unfortunate confluence of events, and the Saints' curse struck again.
If alcohol can damage your short term memory, imagine what damage alcohol could do.
On principle I just wouldn’t have done the trade because more and more, I lean towards the notion that it’s silly to trade good players for speculative picks that may or may not work out.
Most of the time IMO it doesn’t and this one killed us. Spider was absolutely the missing ingredient in 04-06. Put him in the prelims ahead of Knobel and Ackland.
Disastrous trade.
And without wanting to reopen the GT debate... I think one can argue that this was close to his worst decision at the helm.
I’m generally one of the bigger GT fans but for all his lauded management skills... they didn’t back themselves to turn him around and they should have
The flip side is that the trade could have netted us Mackie at #7 or a developing Hamish McIntosh as the long term replacement... and at #22 we could have had Brad Murphy. Certainly could have been better
Ultimately though, a fit Everite was worth the most to us
sunsaint wrote: ↑Mon 28 Dec 2020 6:37pm
the trade result on paper was a disaster - yes
but spider burnt a few bridges at the saints
I know that Spider was an A grade corkhead and a disruptive influence, however I still believe he could've made the difference in 2004-5. GT couldn't wait to get rid of him. Bundy wasn't a fan either.
Barry Brooks could've been a good player but did his ACL and never recovered psychologically. It was his "jumping leg" and his impressive leap was never the same. He lost all confidence and we all know the rest.
Given we missed out on a young, frustrated Dean Cox through an unfortunate confluence of events, and the Saints' curse struck again.
I’ve heard about Cox but can’t recall the circumstance.
Could you please elaborate?
Proudly assuming the title of forum Oracle and serving as the inaugural Saintsational ‘weak as piss brigade’ President.
sunsaint wrote: ↑Mon 28 Dec 2020 6:37pm
the trade result on paper was a disaster - yes
but spider burnt a few bridges at the saints
I know that Spider was an A grade corkhead and a disruptive influence, however I still believe he could've made the difference in 2004-5. GT couldn't wait to get rid of him. Bundy wasn't a fan either.
Barry Brooks could've been a good player but did his ACL and never recovered psychologically. It was his "jumping leg" and his impressive leap was never the same. He lost all confidence and we all know the rest.
Given we missed out on a young, frustrated Dean Cox through an unfortunate confluence of events, and the Saints' curse struck again.
Yeah, he was a mixed blessing, wasn't he? Not many 18 year olds can even play ruck, at the tender age of only 18 years old - at least at this, the highest level. Even fewer can just casually slot into Big Tony's position and athletically take a bunch of marks and kick a big bag of goals!
Amazing player, when all's said and done, but I don't disagree with your points.
sunsaint wrote: ↑Mon 28 Dec 2020 6:37pm
the trade result on paper was a disaster - yes
but spider burnt a few bridges at the saints
I know that Spider was an A grade corkhead and a disruptive influence, however I still believe he could've made the difference in 2004-5. GT couldn't wait to get rid of him. Bundy wasn't a fan either.
Barry Brooks could've been a good player but did his ACL and never recovered psychologically. It was his "jumping leg" and his impressive leap was never the same. He lost all confidence and we all know the rest.
Given we missed out on a young, frustrated Dean Cox through an unfortunate confluence of events, and the Saints' curse struck again.
I’ve heard about Cox but can’t recall the circumstance.
Could you please elaborate?
If I recall correctly, Michael Gardener was having something of a break out, all-star, incredibly dominant year for WCE and a young Dean Cox who was described as barely coordinated enough to tie his shoes felt that it would be smarter to pursue opportunities elsewhere.
He’d reportedly spoken to the Saints and there was an in principle agreement to trade at seasons end but then Gardener did his knee, Cox got the opportunity and stepped up and WCE upped their offer to keep him
sunsaint wrote: ↑Mon 28 Dec 2020 6:37pm
the trade result on paper was a disaster - yes
but spider burnt a few bridges at the saints
I know that Spider was an A grade corkhead and a disruptive influence, however I still believe he could've made the difference in 2004-5. GT couldn't wait to get rid of him. Bundy wasn't a fan either.
Barry Brooks could've been a good player but did his ACL and never recovered psychologically. It was his "jumping leg" and his impressive leap was never the same. He lost all confidence and we all know the rest.
Given we missed out on a young, frustrated Dean Cox through an unfortunate confluence of events, and the Saints' curse struck again.
Yeah, he was a mixed blessing, wasn't he? Not many 18 year olds can even play ruck, at the tender age of only 18 years old - at least at this, the highest level. Even fewer can just casually slot into Big Tony's position and athletically take a bunch of marks and kick a big bag of goals!
Amazing player, when all's said and done, but I don't disagree with your points.
Indeed. The very first Rising Star nomination way back in round 1, 1993 against the pussies. Anyone who saw that game knew we had a player on our hands. It was a Ditterich like debut.
He backed it up in the "Racism" game at filth park a few weeks later. The lad could play the game alright. He was the missing piece in what should have been the premiership puzzles of 04-05.
Another saints' player who didn't fulfil his undoubtedly enormous potential. His absence in 1997 probably cost us the flag. Oh, what might have been. Sliding doors and all that.
If alcohol can damage your short term memory, imagine what damage alcohol could do.
Perhaps its not good to trade simply because a player and a coach don't get along. Professional footballers need to be professional and coaches learn to deal with difficult people not just move on their talented problems - and perhaps more importantly the recruitment team needs to be spot on; meticulously researched and targeted not acting some half assed gut feeling, tired formula trying to pull off some miracle pick or second guess the market. GT wouldn't you love to have it all again and this time be more circumspect and humble. Thank goodness that's all in the past - for now.
the Everitt trade was not so bad.. got pick 6 and 22.
Using 6 on Brooks was aweful and a disaster.
Port used 6 on Salopek and then Mackie went at 7.
Considering how poor our bottom couple of players were, if we get either of them in our 2009/2010 team and we win at least one flag.
Salopek or Mackie for Eddie or McQualter is a big step up
SuperDuper wrote: ↑Mon 28 Dec 2020 7:59pm
the Everitt trade was not so bad.. got pick 6 and 22.
Using 6 on Brooks was aweful and a disaster.
Port used 6 on Salopek and then Mackie went at 7.
Considering how poor our bottom couple of players were, if we get either of them in our 2009/2010 team and we win at least one flag.
Salopek or Mackie for Eddie or McQualter is a big step up
I agree the return on Everett was in line with value.
What we did with the picks was the issue.
The fact that we traded away a gun ruck forward then traded in what seemed a plethora of ruck replacements in the next ten years speaks volumes of the decision.
Everett injury cost us ‘97, perhaps trading him cost us a flag between 04-06?
Who knows?
Proudly assuming the title of forum Oracle and serving as the inaugural Saintsational ‘weak as piss brigade’ President.
SuperDuper wrote: ↑Mon 28 Dec 2020 7:59pm
the Everitt trade was not so bad.. got pick 6 and 22.
Using 6 on Brooks was aweful and a disaster.
Port used 6 on Salopek and then Mackie went at 7.
Considering how poor our bottom couple of players were, if we get either of them in our 2009/2010 team and we win at least one flag.
Salopek or Mackie for Eddie or McQualter is a big step up
I agree the return on Everett was in line with value.
What we did with the picks was the issue.
The fact that we traded away a gun ruck forward then traded in what seemed a plethora of ruck replacements in the next ten years speaks volumes of the decision.
Everett injury cost us ‘97, perhaps trading him cost us a flag between 04-06?
Who knows?
Everite’s unavailability potentially cost us 3, possibly 4 flags instead of just one
Geeez I never thought of it that way...
To the top wrote: ↑Mon 28 Dec 2020 10:28pm
Missing from comment is that Brooks was Drafted by Port Adelaide at 15, but due to the rucking depth of Port Adelaide did not play a game
He was however regarded very highly as a forward/ruck at 198cm and 95kg - very athletic with a decent jump
So Port Adelaide were nurturing him and sorry to lose him
He played a handful of games at St Kilda before badly injuring a knee and restricting his leap
Perhaps you should look at the match where he kicked 3, the last of the Minor Round collecting some 15 possessions and taking 7 marks
There was a case that he should have been retained on that form - but he wasn’t
Then we played Port Adelaide with their ruck resources they also pushed forward and Brooks was played in a back pocket, so a lamb to the slaughter
And that was his AFL career
But for injury it could have been very different
There are many in the same boat
When seeing Rehn in Adelaide, with JB at the Casino after, JB said we have a better one on the books
Alves said “going onto a footy field like that you had better be able to play son”
And therein lay the problem which saw Everitt eventually traded out
Aka Hall - and Lappin
Sometimes there is a bigger picture being considered
Grant Thomas's non-selection of Brooks in his last game coaching the St Kilda F.C. cost St Kilda the final, the series, his job as coach, the potential to continue what could have become a Premiership legacy with an incredible bunch of old salts and young stars. It was the end of an era - a potential era. Ross Lyon, the hard nosed pragmatist made a tidy job of squaring things up, but critical momentum was lost. As far as my genious football brain is concerned, relying on Kosi to ruck through that Melbourne game was the worst decision St Kilda made since Stewart and Barret.
To the top wrote: ↑Mon 28 Dec 2020 10:28pm
Missing from comment is that Brooks was Drafted by Port Adelaide at 15, but due to the rucking depth of Port Adelaide did not play a game
He was however regarded very highly as a forward/ruck at 198cm and 95kg - very athletic with a decent jump
So Port Adelaide were nurturing him and sorry to lose him
He played a handful of games at St Kilda before badly injuring a knee and restricting his leap
Perhaps you should look at the match where he kicked 3, the last of the Minor Round collecting some 15 possessions and taking 7 marks
There was a case that he should have been retained on that form - but he wasn’t
Then we played Port Adelaide with their ruck resources they also pushed forward and Brooks was played in a back pocket, so a lamb to the slaughter
And that was his AFL career
But for injury it could have been very different
There are many in the same boat
When seeing Rehn in Adelaide, with JB at the Casino after, JB said we have a better one on the books
Alves said “going onto a footy field like that you had better be able to play son”
And therein lay the problem which saw Everitt eventually traded out
Aka Hall - and Lappin
Sometimes there is a bigger picture being considered
Who is JB, please To the top?
Manny,
I would guess that it is John Beveridge, our recruiting manager at the time.
Barry Brooks sleep-walked through every game he played. His lack of effort/physicality/intensity was within of the worst I've ever seen from an AFL player. As for Ferguson, he looked promising, but was undersized for the type of layer he was.
cwrcyn wrote: ↑Tue 29 Dec 2020 11:37am
Barry Brooks sleep-walked through every game he played. His lack of effort/physicality/intensity was within of the worst I've ever seen from an AFL player. As for Ferguson, he looked promising, but was undersized for the type of layer he was.
Fair enough...
I was a lazy fan and didn’t pay attention...and I had a narrative stuck in my head based on GT telling a reporter that the number of hit-outs rarely translated into the number of clearances and I started to cringe thinking GT was getting ahead of himself (lol) and I dreaded that he was gonna choose a forward to carry the ruck duties. So when we lost...I was so pissed off. Of course, I never imagined GT was gonna get the chop for it.
cwrcyn wrote: ↑Tue 29 Dec 2020 11:37am
Barry Brooks sleep-walked through every game he played. His lack of effort/physicality/intensity was within of the worst I've ever seen from an AFL player. As for Ferguson, he looked promising, but was undersized for the type of layer he was.
Fair enough...
I was a lazy fan and didn’t pay attention...and I had a narrative stuck in my head based on GT telling a reporter that the number of hit-outs rarely translated into the number of clearances and I started to cringe thinking GT was getting ahead of himself (lol) and I dreaded that he was gonna choose a forward to carry the ruck duties. So when we lost...I was so pissed off. Of course, I never imagined GT was gonna get the chop for it.
GT was trying to cover up a weakness with those ruck comments. It was spin. I don't think he really believed it.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
cwrcyn wrote: ↑Tue 29 Dec 2020 11:37am
Barry Brooks sleep-walked through every game he played. His lack of effort/physicality/intensity was within of the worst I've ever seen from an AFL player. As for Ferguson, he looked promising, but was undersized for the type of layer he was.
I recall Rohan Connolly write that he saw Brooks play the worst game by an AFL player he had ever seen. The game was against Port in Launceston.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
