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SuperDuper wrote: ↑Mon 02 Nov 2020 8:37pm
Don't understand the fuss. There was nan open market for crouch. We paid the most. That salary we offered was within the range of a band 3 pick. A band 3 pick is the second round which is the range of picks 19-38, but slides after other comp to 23-42. So the open market valued Crouch at pick 23-41. Adelaide got the highest possible pick for a player of that value. If they were Richmond they would get pick 42 for the exact same player and deal. Adelaide should simply take what is the top end of market value. If they force a trade we would only give them a second rounder because that is what he is worth. But that second rounder would be worse than pick 23.
Great post, if the compensation is insufficient do a side deal that leaves a little salt on the plate for Adelaide and everyone is happy.
I'd say the Crouch is worth #15 - #20 or thereabout.
If we say trade our #15 for their current #20 and say #60 (to make it legal) as a side deal to ensure they don't match, everyone wins as opposed to Adelaide matching and us having to trade.
Personally I don't think Adelaide will match the offer, their bravado is posturing.
They were also kidding themselves if there was any genuine belief Crouch would net #2 as he is not worth that pick.
Proudly assuming the title of forum Oracle and serving as the inaugural Saintsational ‘weak as piss brigade’ President.
SuperDuper wrote: ↑Mon 02 Nov 2020 8:37pm
Don't understand the fuss. There was nan open market for crouch. We paid the most. That salary we offered was within the range of a band 3 pick. A band 3 pick is the second round which is the range of picks 19-38, but slides after other comp to 23-42. So the open market valued Crouch at pick 23-41. Adelaide got the highest possible pick for a player of that value. If they were Richmond they would get pick 42 for the exact same player and deal. Adelaide should simply take what is the top end of market value. If they force a trade we would only give them a second rounder because that is what he is worth. But that second rounder would be worse than pick 23.
Great post, if the compensation is insufficient do a side deal that leaves a little salt on the plate for Adelaide and everyone is happy.
I'd say the Crouch is worth #15 - #20 or thereabout.
If we say trade our #15 for their current #20 and say #60 (to make it legal) as a side deal to ensure they don't match, everyone wins as opposed to Adelaide matching and us having to trade.
Personally I don't think Adelaide will match the offer, their bravado is posturing.
They were also kidding themselves if there was any genuine belief Crouch would net #2 as he is not worth that pick.
Absolutely 100% correct - not our interest in what the Crows "want' - it's what the market for free agency compensation gives. Crows: If they're not happy with compensation, match the offer. Saints: If they match the offer, walk away
ace wrote: ↑Tue 03 Nov 2020 9:59am
Sorry St Byron I didn't realise that you were one of them.
No worries. I can assure you there were no vile amateur arseholes and that participant well-being was foremost.
They may have meant well but that doesn't mean they didn't stuff up. Some of the reports coming out were horrendous.
The club has to take total responsibility for damaging the club’s prime assets.
Bordering on negligence.
The crew that delivered the camp and Collective Mind delivered what the club contracted them to deliver. It was a documented proposal that was all signed off by the club management and doctor. At the end of the event a good percentage of the senior players said it was one of the best things they’d ever done. The club’s negligence, IMO, was lack of follow up after the event and naivety about the potential to integrate the content of the camp into a whole footy club. Would have been better to just start with the senior players and coaches. That’s just my opinion.
Most of the subsequent media reports were inaccurate or downright false, especially the more sensational and salacious stuff by Caro and Sam Maclure. It was just click bait That’s why they’re now being sued by Collective Mind.
ace wrote: ↑Tue 03 Nov 2020 9:59am
Sorry St Byron I didn't realise that you were one of them.
No worries. I can assure you there were no vile amateur arseholes and that participant well-being was foremost.
They may have meant well but that doesn't mean they didn't stuff up. Some of the reports coming out were horrendous.
The club has to take total responsibility for damaging the club’s prime assets.
Bordering on negligence.
The crew that delivered the camp and Collective Mind delivered what the club contracted them to deliver. It was a documented proposal that was all signed off by the club management and doctor. At the end of the event a good percentage of the senior players said it was one of the best things they’d ever done. The club’s negligence, IMO, was lack of follow up after the event and naivety about the potential to integrate the content of the camp into a whole footy club. Would have been better to just start with the senior players and coaches. That’s just my opinion.
Most of the subsequent media reports were inaccurate or downright false, especially the more sensational and salacious stuff by Caro and Sam Maclure. It was just click bait That’s why they’re now being sued by Collective Mind.
Ok. Thanks.
I don't doubt that much of it is sensationalist reporting. It also may have been a way for the club to deflect from its poor performance. I'm totally speculating.
Sounds like the Crows had been using them for a few seasons including the year they finished minor Premiers and went on to choke in the Grand Final.
Personally, I don't buy into this type of stuff. It's like a cult and too airey fairy for my liking and some of their claims about performance improvement which can't be proved, are bordering on evangelical fanaticism.
Aren't these guys your mates who worked with Ritcho and the Saints around 4 years ago.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
ace wrote: ↑Tue 03 Nov 2020 9:59am
Sorry St Byron I didn't realise that you were one of them.
No worries. I can assure you there were no vile amateur arseholes and that participant well-being was foremost.
They may have meant well but that doesn't mean they didn't stuff up. Some of the reports coming out were horrendous.
The club has to take total responsibility for damaging the club’s prime assets.
Bordering on negligence.
The crew that delivered the camp and Collective Mind delivered what the club contracted them to deliver. It was a documented proposal that was all signed off by the club management and doctor. At the end of the event a good percentage of the senior players said it was one of the best things they’d ever done. The club’s negligence, IMO, was lack of follow up after the event and naivety about the potential to integrate the content of the camp into a whole footy club. Would have been better to just start with the senior players and coaches. That’s just my opinion.
Most of the subsequent media reports were inaccurate or downright false, especially the more sensational and salacious stuff by Caro and Sam Maclure. It was just click bait That’s why they’re now being sued by Collective Mind.
Ok. Thanks.
I don't doubt that much of it is sensationalist reporting. It also may have been a way for the club to deflect from it's poor performance. I'm totally speculating.
Sounds like the Crows had been using them for a few seasons including the year they finished minor Premiers and went on to choke in the Grand Final.
Personally, I don't buy into this type of stuff. It's like a cult and too airey fairy for my liking and some of their claims about performance improvement which can't be proved, are bordering on evangelical fanaticism.
Aren't these guys your mates who worked with Ritcho and the Saints around 4 years ago.
Apologies to other posters coz this is off topic. Yep one of the Collective Mind guys is a friend. They’ve worked in the corporate world for a long time and had a lot of success. They worked with the Rabbitohs when they won the League premiership in 2014 and that’s how they got into AFL. Yes they did work with Saints playing list and coaches in the two years before the Crows signed them up exclusive. Agree the work doesn’t suit everyone and that may have been why the Crows camp follow up went downhill. Attempting to apply organisation wide change all at once instead of targeting leadership and establishing change there first.
And just to add that the reason we haven’t heard from Tex, Rory Sloane, Bryce Gibbs, Daniel Thalia et al about how their experience was is that they’re contractually bound to say nothing whilst they’re on the list and for a year after leaving the club. It’s been particularly galling and damaging for the Collective Mind guys to have been copping buckets of s*** from a great height whilst the people who could actually refute it have been contractually bound to keep schtum.
st.byron wrote: ↑Tue 03 Nov 2020 12:59pm
And just to add that the reason we haven’t heard from Tex, Rory Sloane, Bryce Gibbs, Daniel Thalia et al about how their experience was is that they’re contractually bound to say nothing whilst they’re on the list and for a year after leaving the club. It’s been particularly galling and damaging for the Collective Mind guys to have been copping buckets of s*** from a great height whilst the people who could actually refute it have been contractually bound to keep schtum.
Why would the put a gag order like that on them?
All posters are equal, but some posters are more equal than others.
st.byron wrote: ↑Tue 03 Nov 2020 12:59pm
And just to add that the reason we haven’t heard from Tex, Rory Sloane, Bryce Gibbs, Daniel Thalia et al about how their experience was is that they’re contractually bound to say nothing whilst they’re on the list and for a year after leaving the club. It’s been particularly galling and damaging for the Collective Mind guys to have been copping buckets of s*** from a great height whilst the people who could actually refute it have been contractually bound to keep schtum.
Why would the put a gag order like that on them?
Apparently it’s a common clause in AFL player contracts. I think it basically means that all media statements and appearances have to be club sanctioned. And the one year after leaving I guess is to stop them divulging stuff straight after they’re off the list.
Adelaide still have not lodged a matching offer.
Two days gone of maximum of three.
Mark Ricciuto, Adelaide's football director is yet to find a face saving way to say "I am a d**khead for suggesting we would match any offer that did not provide pick no 2".
Adelaide did not want to offer Crouch a four year contract with a five year trigger and they did not want to pay close to $700k per year.
But that is what they have to do if they match and St Kilda walks away saying we are not trading.
Clearly Ricciuto suffered too many concussions during his playing days.
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
All they need to do is simply say they are disappointed not to receive a better pick, but will move ahead with the FA take their pick and be active in the trade period.
They come off as the good guys for facilitating the deal, the AFL come across as the bad guys and we are simply the opportunists .
Crouch walking through Adelaide airport this afternoon and looking down the barrel of the camera when answering the reporter’s question and asking the Crows not to match the Saints offer said everything.
He’s done with Adelaide and wants to start his new life in Moorabbin ASAP without a hiccup. That the AFL didn’t grant his old mob pick 2 is not his issue.
Up until then - I thought we might end up trading for Crouch but, now I think we are just as likely to walk if the Crows are dumb enough to match and Crouch got on the front foot to make sure the deal goes thru hassle-free.
Saintmatt wrote: ↑Tue 03 Nov 2020 9:06pm
Crouch walking through Adelaide airport this afternoon and looking down the barrel of the camera when answering the reporter’s question and asking the Crows not to match the Saints offer said everything.
He’s done with Adelaide and wants to start his new life in Moorabbin ASAP without a hiccup. That the AFL didn’t grant his old mob pick 2 is not his issue.
Up until then - I thought we might end up trading for Crouch but, now I think we are just as likely to walk if the Crows are dumb enough to match and Crouch got on the front foot to make sure the deal goes thru hassle-free.
I saw that on Ch7 and was thinking
'2 years ago, who would have imagined we'd have won a final, and become a destination club'
Gotta pinch myself, thinking of who we got n where we are now.
Lethers, Gags, Gubby, Roughy, + of course Ratts have done some magic.
The stuff of dreams
A real Sainter will pledge allegiance to the ❤ and despise the Pies, the Blues, and the Injectors.
Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
Saintmatt wrote: ↑Tue 03 Nov 2020 9:06pm
Crouch walking through Adelaide airport this afternoon and looking down the barrel of the camera when answering the reporter’s question and asking the Crows not to match the Saints offer said everything.
He’s done with Adelaide and wants to start his new life in Moorabbin ASAP without a hiccup. That the AFL didn’t grant his old mob pick 2 is not his issue.
Up until then - I thought we might end up trading for Crouch but, now I think we are just as likely to walk if the Crows are dumb enough to match and Crouch got on the front foot to make sure the deal goes thru hassle-free.
I saw that on Ch7 and was thinking
'2 years ago, who would have imagined we'd have won a final, and become a destination club'
Gotta pinch myself, thinking of who we got n where we are now.
Lethers, Gags, Gubby, Roughy, + of course Ratts have done some magic.
The stuff of dreams
Even better is that this year - it’s clearly not about the money. Fair to say Hanners and Hill were sold a dream but we still needed to back that up with coin. Crouch is there or thereabouts money wise with us and Adelaide but chose us ... largely on merit. That’ll do nicely
I think getting out of Adelaide which seems to have been a very depressing place recently...and into the exuberant vibe of a Ratten lead Stkilda will see Brad play his best footy.
fugazi wrote: ↑Tue 03 Nov 2020 10:13pm
I think getting out of Adelaide which seems to have been a very depressing place recently...and into the exuberant vibe of a Ratten lead Stkilda will see Brad play his best footy.
I wonder whether the die was cast when we played the Crows.
He could hear our guys all over the field all excited and being so supportive of each other and thought 'I wanna be a part of that family'
A real Sainter will pledge allegiance to the ❤ and despise the Pies, the Blues, and the Injectors.
Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
fugazi wrote: ↑Wed 04 Nov 2020 3:10pm
So...anything happened yet?
Don't the Crows need to match by now?
Has to be matched by 5pm Melbourne time ...
They've had three days. Given how adamant they were that they would match if they didn't get pick two what's taking so long?
Maybe it's because they realise Crouch doesn't want to stay, they don't want him and if they match they are stuck with him for at least 4 years for more than they want to pay.
and despise the Pies, the Blues, and the Injectors.