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Great post Secret Kiel. I very much wanted to put both Gresham and Butler ahead also but I didn't want to make it further obvious that Billings is a disappointment to me personally (and others in my clan). There are several posters here I respect, enjoy reading their comments and insights into the team and I don't want them to think that I have an unfair bias towards him, without reason. He has been in the system now since 2013 and struggles to get into the play far too often, particularly, when the game is tight and quite physical and needs one of our more mature, top end players to stand up. He rarely does when it matters and we've watched a lot of his games over the past 7 years.
I want him to do well but time and time again he goes missing and this now his 7th season at the club. Even his housemate Paton, has shown at times, way more hardness at the contest already. Billings is definitely a downhill skier, picks up a lot of cheap, ineffective possessions and in my opinion, is not worthy of being one of the highest paid players at the club. He simply doesn't do enough and is often rarely sighted when the team needs him.
Eloquently and respectfully put SK. Clearly I agree with every word. I disagree with the call for trading AND Jacks personal 800k slush fund but he needs to feel the heat and I have no doubt the coaches fitted the rough end of the pineapple up his clacker in the reviews.
As they say in the classics, champion players rarely play bad back-to-back games, enter a team on the ropes in Melbourne. I'll have the SK tracker on him this week so let's see. The title of the sub plot for the Dees game is Champ or Chump.
This has been a fascinating debate and clearly Jack Billings arouses strong opinions as he was selected ahead (at 3) of Marcus Bontempelli (4) and Patrick Cripps (13) in the 2013 draft, to whom he obviously does not compare favourably.
It is also true to say that JB has failed to become elite, unlike the other 2 aforementioned stars.
Questions remain if in his 7th season with the Saints that he is capable of becoming elite, so the proposition to trade him to another team, where he may well improve, is certainly not unreasonable. If so, he shouldn't go cheap, and if it assists the club to bring in someone like Jye Caldwell from GWS then I believe that would be a big win for St Kilda.
As for his performance against the Lions on Sunday, it is unfair to to criticise him for failing to impact in the 1st 3 quarters as we don't know what his instructions were from the coach, and watching the replay yesterday I felt the majority of play was on the opposite side to where he was positioned.
It must be really frustrating for both Hill and Billings, 2 of the best ball users in the team, to be starved of possessions and while people argue that they should go out and find their own ball, as I said before, we don't know what instructions they had from the bench.
It has always been my understanding that in team sport following your coach's instructions is absolutely paramount. Sometimes that can involve sacrificing your own game for the sake of the team.
"I am an old man and have known a great many troubles, but most of them never happened."
"Life would be infinitely happier if we could only be born at the age of eighty and gradually approach eighteen."
Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) American writer and humorist
Madness. You would only trade a player like Billings in order to improve. The problem is, once we have improved, Billings is exactly the sort of player we would need.
Darth Vader wrote: ↑Wed 26 Aug 2020 2:54pm
Madness. You would only trade a player like Billings in order to improve. The problem is, once we have improved, Billings is exactly the sort of player we would need.
That’s when we re-contract him like Everton and Rooney, at 32, when he’s cooked.
Then we go to complete rebuild and re-contract Ross Lyon with GT as orange boy.
And has been our best in some real important wins, like against Port, Bulldogs, Richmond and Carlton.
He certainly looked to be playing in a different role/position on the weekend than he was earlier in the year. Maybe he’s carrying a little knock or maybe it was just for team balance.
He had three quiet quarters and then nearly won the game for us.
He’s been ultra consistent this year and honestly, I think one of our best players.
freely wrote: ↑Wed 26 Aug 2020 3:53pm
As an alternative to trading him, could also vote for him for Goal of the Year!
Unreasonable bias & an agenda will never allow such a sub concious admission.
I don't think so.
Jack appreciates your vote saintkid
You did really well biting your tongue for so long on this thread. Shows that your thoughts are considered and not as biased as I initially believed all those matches ago.
freely wrote: ↑Wed 26 Aug 2020 3:53pm
As an alternative to trading him, could also vote for him for Goal of the Year!
Unreasonable bias & an agenda will never allow such a sub concious admission.
I don't think so.
Jack appreciates your vote saintkid
You did really well biting your tongue for so long on this thread. Shows that your thoughts are considered and not as biased as I initially believed all those matches ago.
Thanks for your kind words Ghost Like.
If Billings comes out this week against Melbourne, leads from the front and puts in a very good four quarter performance, I will be really happy for him.
If only he put in like his last quarter against the Lions last week...we let another golden chance slip by to hold on to a top 4 finish and he is one of the senior players that should be standing up and delivering in crunch games.
johnearljames wrote: ↑Tue 25 Aug 2020 10:53pm
Billings has been our second best player this season.
Really he’s ahead of who Steele or Marshall??
Intriguing....
Steele.
Marshall 3rd.
I have Hunter Clark ahead of him and Jones also so far this season.
Either way, Billings is our best wing at the moment and in our top 5 players this year. No way you trade a player of his talent at his age. Its madness.
Want to watch the most boring and devious thing on television and probably in mankind's history, then tune into a daily live press conference at 11am.
skeptic wrote: ↑Tue 25 Aug 2020 9:59pm
To be honest... I’d be thrilled if we could add another Billings and another Hill to the team and have 4 players that could tear opposition apart in a quarter dividing the opposition’s focus.
IMO we don’t have enough of that type of player and you can’t get more of it by trading out what you do have
That’s great if you want no centre square clearances and in the Gabba they’re like gold!
We already sit 4th for centre square clearances
Yes that’s gone well against top sides like the cats ...when it matters ...
But stats again....you ought to watch a few games ...could be enlightening!!
Sanctorum wrote: ↑Wed 26 Aug 2020 2:07pm
This has been a fascinating debate and clearly Jack Billings arouses strong opinions as he was selected ahead (at 3) of Marcus Bontempelli (4) and Patrick Cripps (13) in the 2013 draft, to whom he obviously does not compare favourably.
It is also true to say that JB has failed to become elite, unlike the other 2 aforementioned stars.
Questions remain if in his 7th season with the Saints that he is capable of becoming elite, so the proposition to trade him to another team, where he may well improve, is certainly not unreasonable. If so, he shouldn't go cheap, and if it assists the club to bring in someone like Jye Caldwell from GWS then I believe that would be a big win for St Kilda.
As for his performance against the Lions on Sunday, it is unfair to to criticise him for failing to impact in the 1st 3 quarters as we don't know what his instructions were from the coach, and watching the replay yesterday I felt the majority of play was on the opposite side to where he was positioned.
It must be really frustrating for both Hill and Billings, 2 of the best ball users in the team, to be starved of possessions and while people argue that they should go out and find their own ball, as I said before, we don't know what instructions they had from the bench.
It has always been my understanding that in team sport following your coach's instructions is absolutely paramount. Sometimes that can involve sacrificing your own game for the sake of the team.
This is an excellent, balanced post.
The proposition is : trade Billings if we get a player that improves our list (especially midfield depth). If Caldwell does that - great!
I’ve seen enough of Billings after 7 years to know he’s not going to become elite. He’s a good player who, when things go well on his day or when the overall team is up, he looks a star. IMHO that makes him replaceable.
It’s also reasonable to recognise that if you were to pry a player that makes our side better loose from another club...you have to offer someone of value.
I’d argue it’s old St Kilda thinking “oh no we can’t trade one of our so called guns” we over rate individuals and don’t think of can we improve the whole team?
People who suggest that you just can’t trade Billings, after 7 years, are short sighted for mine.
So the proposition is: trade one of our only true match winners who is still yet to hit his prime for an underdeveloped mid who has shown a bit of promise
Sounds like a cool idea - count me in!
Hopefully we will win a Premiership by 2030
Hold on ..... or maybe we can just trade a pick for this young mid and keep our old mate JB as well
skeptic wrote: ↑Tue 25 Aug 2020 9:59pm
To be honest... I’d be thrilled if we could add another Billings and another Hill to the team and have 4 players that could tear opposition apart in a quarter dividing the opposition’s focus.
IMO we don’t have enough of that type of player and you can’t get more of it by trading out what you do have
That’s great if you want no centre square clearances and in the Gabba they’re like gold!
We already sit 4th for centre square clearances
Yes that’s gone well against top sides like the cats ...when it matters ...
But stats again....you ought to watch a few games ...could be enlightening!!
Errrr .... you were the one who brought up centre square clearances as if to say we have been struggling in this area
And I love how you target the Cats game after we had come off a 4 day break without resting players
Sanctorum wrote: ↑Wed 26 Aug 2020 2:07pm
This has been a fascinating debate and clearly Jack Billings arouses strong opinions as he was selected ahead (at 3) of Marcus Bontempelli (4) and Patrick Cripps (13) in the 2013 draft, to whom he obviously does not compare favourably.
It is also true to say that JB has failed to become elite, unlike the other 2 aforementioned stars.
Questions remain if in his 7th season with the Saints that he is capable of becoming elite, so the proposition to trade him to another team, where he may well improve, is certainly not unreasonable. If so, he shouldn't go cheap, and if it assists the club to bring in someone like Jye Caldwell from GWS then I believe that would be a big win for St Kilda.
As for his performance against the Lions on Sunday, it is unfair to to criticise him for failing to impact in the 1st 3 quarters as we don't know what his instructions were from the coach, and watching the replay yesterday I felt the majority of play was on the opposite side to where he was positioned.
It must be really frustrating for both Hill and Billings, 2 of the best ball users in the team, to be starved of possessions and while people argue that they should go out and find their own ball, as I said before, we don't know what instructions they had from the bench.
It has always been my understanding that in team sport following your coach's instructions is absolutely paramount. Sometimes that can involve sacrificing your own game for the sake of the team.
This is an excellent, balanced post.
The proposition is : trade Billings if we get a player that improves our list (especially midfield depth). If Caldwell does that - great!
I’ve seen enough of Billings after 7 years to know he’s not going to become elite. He’s a good player who, when things go well on his day or when the overall team is up, he looks a star. IMHO that makes him replaceable.
It’s also reasonable to recognise that if you were to pry a player that makes our side better loose from another club...you have to offer someone of value.
I’d argue it’s old St Kilda thinking “oh no we can’t trade one of our so called guns” we over rate individuals and don’t think of can we improve the whole team?
People who suggest that you just can’t trade Billings, after 7 years, are short sighted for mine.
If Billings 3 quarters of seemingly zero stats and bruise free footy, combined with his flashiness in Q4 were compliant with coach's instructions, then isn't he entitled to be a little annoyed for not receiving any coaches votes? I mean if Billing's played strictly in accordance with the coaches cunning plan and it nearly got us the win but the plan made Jack look like a passenger to the unwitting fans, then yeah Jack, I'd be knocking on Ratts door and telling him his coaching sucked against the Lions and made you look like an 800k oxygen thief in the process.
I note Ratts used the excuse of being stuck on the wrong side of the ground for Hill recently. Maybe Ratts is to blame for Jack's game against the Lions. Wouldn't that mean Ratts is repeating the same mistake and instructing his Ferraris to gurard space?
Who knows but if he is then that is concerning. This week's game will be revealing on that front.
Devilhead wrote: ↑Thu 27 Aug 2020 4:48am
So the proposition is: trade one of our only true match winners who is still yet to hit his prime for an underdeveloped mid who has shown a bit of promise
Sounds like a cool idea - count me in!
Hopefully we will win a Premiership by 2030
Hold on ..... or maybe we can just trade a pick for this young mid and keep our old mate JB as well
Errr match winner?
You see I have Dusty Martin as a match winner certainly not a player in his 7th year who hasn’t even reached elite status who was taken ahead of Bontempelli (who is elite).
7 years in Jack hasn’t hit his prime...what’s your prime time line 32yrs???
I can see why you’re now coming around and getting the picture lol
skeptic wrote: ↑Tue 25 Aug 2020 9:59pm
To be honest... I’d be thrilled if we could add another Billings and another Hill to the team and have 4 players that could tear opposition apart in a quarter dividing the opposition’s focus.
IMO we don’t have enough of that type of player and you can’t get more of it by trading out what you do have
That’s great if you want no centre square clearances and in the Gabba they’re like gold!
We already sit 4th for centre square clearances
Yes that’s gone well against top sides like the cats ...when it matters ...
But stats again....you ought to watch a few games ...could be enlightening!!
Errrr .... you were the one who brought up centre square clearances as if to say we have been struggling in this area
And I love how you target the Cats game after we had come off a 4 day break without resting players
Please keep up the good work
How many has Jack the modern day HFF/Wing/and supposed mid given us? How many clearances from stoppages is Jack delivering for us?? I mean a gun mid (who I and many here think we need) is the gap so the question is can we cover an outside receiver and get a good trade return to improve the overall team?
I think so
Errrr .... you were the one who brought up centre square clearances as if to say we have been struggling in this area
And I love how you target the Cats game after we had come off a 4 day break without resting players
Please keep up the good work
errr yeah ???
just had a quick look after 13 games
Hitouts third = good
Centre clearances = third = good
but north is above us sooooo....
Dunno take it up with Teffers
So we don’t need more midfield talent in our side cause we are 3rd in centre clearance stats??
Have I missed something - our current midfield is elite ??
I mean stats are all we need to answer that right Devil? Lol
Errrr .... you were the one who brought up centre square clearances as if to say we have been struggling in this area
And I love how you target the Cats game after we had come off a 4 day break without resting players
Please keep up the good work
errr yeah ???
just had a quick look after 13 games
Hitouts third = good
Centre clearances = third = good
but north is above us sooooo....
So tick - our midfield is complete Sun???
No need for any additional talent through there cause current stats tell us that’s good enough yeah???
Funny stuff!
skeptic wrote: ↑Tue 25 Aug 2020 9:59pm
To be honest... I’d be thrilled if we could add another Billings and another Hill to the team and have 4 players that could tear opposition apart in a quarter dividing the opposition’s focus.
IMO we don’t have enough of that type of player and you can’t get more of it by trading out what you do have
That’s great if you want no centre square clearances and in the Gabba they’re like gold!
We already sit 4th for centre square clearances
Yes that’s gone well against top sides like the cats ...when it matters ...
But stats again....you ought to watch a few games ...could be enlightening!!
Errrr .... you were the one who brought up centre square clearances as if to say we have been struggling in this area
And I love how you target the Cats game after we had come off a 4 day break without resting players
Please keep up the good work
Didn’t the Cats also come off a short break?
Don’t forget it was rainy a bit windy the ground was slippery the team had the flu and ran over a black cat on the way to the ground...
I mean the loss was just all bad luck yeah??
Gold!
