Injuries.

[saynta]

From heraldsun.com.au

ST KILDA
The Saints have their own ruck dilemma - neither Rowan Marshall or Paddy Ryder had a big impact against the Bulldogs, but Brett Ratten might stick with the one-two punch against the Pies. It was about the only thing that didn’t come off for the Saints on Sunday night - they even kicked straight. Dylan Roberton is a chance to replace injured skipper Jarryn Geary, but coach Brett Ratten indicated his return was further away. “He probably just had some signs where he was just not quite to the level that he’d like to be and we’d like him to be, so he’s gone away to work on a few things.” he said of the defender who made a remarkable return from a heart issue in Round 1 but was dropped for Round 2. “He’s been out of the game for a long time and he’s got a little bit of a challenge at the moment, but I know that he’ll be working really hard and we’ll work with him.”

INJURY LIST

J.Geary (hamstring) 1-2

What a rubbish first comment imhfo.

[roskilde]

Marshall didn't have the day we know he's capable of but I don't know what game they were watching saying that about Paddy. Covered a lot of ground and some of his tap work was absolutely outstanding.

[SemperFidelis]

That is a rubbish assessment by the Hun. Ryder was enormous. our only issue is who comes in for Gears, and how tall do we want to be? And will Cox be back?

[bigcarl]

We dominated the clearances and I thought Ryder’s understanding with Gresham and the other mids was outstanding. I haven’t seen ruckwork like that for a long time. Marshall kicked a goal and did plenty around the ground.

I’d be most surprised if Ratts doesn’t stick with the two rucks for now.

For one thing, if we play only one of them there is no height in our forward line apart from outstanding prospect Max King (a third-gamer) and Membrey (who plays tall, but is just short of being a KPP).

[Saintmatt]

We dominated the clearances and I thought Ryder’s understanding with Gresham and the other mids was outstanding. I haven’t seen ruckwork like that for a long time. Marshall kicked a goal and did plenty around the ground.

I’d be most surprised if Ratts doesn’t stick with the two rucks for now.

For one thing, if we play only one of them there is no height in our forward line apart from outstanding prospect Max King (a third-gamer) and Membrey (who plays tall, but is just short of being a KPP).

Here's my take FWIW ... The two ruck strategy wasn't on my radar (we're one of the few that did it and succeeded) but I'm bloody glad we did. A young ruckman going solo is going to find it difficult this year when faced with an experienced good ruckman who now only has to go a shorter length of game time this year. Where a young player may have ordinarily had an endurance advantage; not this year with 16 min q's.

On to our two ruckman. They are both very very very capable in their own right as ruckmen - Paddy has the runs on the board; is a big body and is widely regarded as one of the better exponents of pure tap work. Watching him put it down Gresh's throat time after time was quite frankly, borderline erotic. RoMa's development last year speaks for itself. So - we have two very capable rucks we can draw upon at any stage of the game. Watching Marshall regularly take Bruce (who I've maintained for many years is comfortably the worst forward/relief rucks in the history of the AFL) to cleaners on Sunday made me giggle out loud.

Onto this week. On election day last year - RoMa beat Grundy until the vital last 25 mins of the game when Grundy cut loose. I'd like to think that this week - with Grundy clearly hampered by a sore hip from last Thurs night - that Ryder will start each quarter and smash his knee into that hip flat out for 10 mins before RoMa comes in and either jumps all over him or, makes Roughead look Bruce-like silly.

Also - don't forget that RoMa arrived at our club as a tall forward. And he's a natural tall forward - he knows where to run and isn't just a 'dumb' tall option with no clue. Excellent contested mark and exceptional below his knees. Our forward line does NOT become unbalanced with Marshall (or a resting Ryder) in it (King and Marshall as the talls; Members as the hit up target + Lonie and Butler as the smalls). That's an excellent mix

For the first time in a long time - we have a very formidable 2-ruck option that's both versatile and able to be deployed without us having to hide one either on the bench or deep forward. Both Ryder and Marshall are both genuine rucks and forwards (at this stage - RoMa is a better forward, Ryder is a more effective tap ruckman).

[bigcarl]

We dominated the clearances and I thought Ryder’s understanding with Gresham and the other mids was outstanding. I haven’t seen ruckwork like that for a long time. Marshall kicked a goal and did plenty around the ground.

I’d be most surprised if Ratts doesn’t stick with the two rucks for now.

For one thing, if we play only one of them there is no height in our forward line apart from outstanding prospect Max King (a third-gamer) and Membrey (who plays tall, but is just short of being a KPP).

Here's my take FWIW ... The two ruck strategy wasn't on my radar (we're one of the few that did it and succeeded) but I'm bloody glad we did. A young ruckman going solo is going to find it difficult this year when faced with an experienced good ruckman who now only has to go a shorter length of game time this year. Where a young player may have ordinarily had an endurance advantage; not this year with 16 min q's.

On to our two ruckman. They are both very very very capable in their own right as ruckmen - Paddy has the runs on the board; is a big body and is widely regarded as one of the better exponents of pure tap work. Watching him put it down Gresh's throat time after time was quite frankly, borderline erotic. RoMa's development last year speaks for itself. So - we have two very capable rucks we can draw upon at any stage of the game. Watching Marshall regularly take Bruce (who I've maintained for many years is comfortably the worst forward/relief rucks in the history of the AFL) to cleaners on Sunday made me giggle out loud.

Onto this week. On election day last year - RoMa beat Grundy until the vital last 25 mins of the game when Grundy cut loose. I'd like to think that this week - with Grundy clearly hampered by a sore hip from last Thurs night - that Ryder will start each quarter and smash his knee into that hip flat out for 10 mins before RoMa comes in and either jumps all over him or, makes Roughead look Bruce-like silly.

Also - don't forget that RoMa arrived at our club as a tall forward. And he's a natural tall forward - he knows where to run and isn't just a 'dumb' tall option with no clue. Excellent contested mark and exceptional below his knees. Our forward line does NOT become unbalanced with Marshall (or a resting Ryder) in it (King and Marshall as the talls; Members as the hit up target + Lonie and Butler as the smalls). That's an excellent mix

For the first time in a long time - we have a very formidable 2-ruck option that's both versatile and able to be deployed without us having to hide one either on the bench or deep forward. Both Ryder and Marshall are both genuine rucks and forwards (at this stage - RoMa is a better forward, Ryder is a more effective tap ruckman).

Well said

[outside66]

We dominated the clearances and I thought Ryder’s understanding with Gresham and the other mids was outstanding. I haven’t seen ruckwork like that for a long time. Marshall kicked a goal and did plenty around the ground.

I’d be most surprised if Ratts doesn’t stick with the two rucks for now.

For one thing, if we play only one of them there is no height in our forward line apart from outstanding prospect Max King (a third-gamer) and Membrey (who plays tall, but is just short of being a KPP).

Here's my take FWIW ... The two ruck strategy wasn't on my radar (we're one of the few that did it and succeeded) but I'm bloody glad we did. A young ruckman going solo is going to find it difficult this year when faced with an experienced good ruckman who now only has to go a shorter length of game time this year. Where a young player may have ordinarily had an endurance advantage; not this year with 16 min q's.

On to our two ruckman. They are both very very very capable in their own right as ruckmen - Paddy has the runs on the board; is a big body and is widely regarded as one of the better exponents of pure tap work. Watching him put it down Gresh's throat time after time was quite frankly, borderline erotic. RoMa's development last year speaks for itself. So - we have two very capable rucks we can draw upon at any stage of the game. Watching Marshall regularly take Bruce (who I've maintained for many years is comfortably the worst forward/relief rucks in the history of the AFL) to cleaners on Sunday made me giggle out loud.

Onto this week. On election day last year - RoMa beat Grundy until the vital last 25 mins of the game when Grundy cut loose. I'd like to think that this week - with Grundy clearly hampered by a sore hip from last Thurs night - that Ryder will start each quarter and smash his knee into that hip flat out for 10 mins before RoMa comes in and either jumps all over him or, makes Roughead look Bruce-like silly.

Also - don't forget that RoMa arrived at our club as a tall forward. And he's a natural tall forward - he knows where to run and isn't just a 'dumb' tall option with no clue. Excellent contested mark and exceptional below his knees. Our forward line does NOT become unbalanced with Marshall (or a resting Ryder) in it (King and Marshall as the talls; Members as the hit up target + Lonie and Butler as the smalls). That's an excellent mix

For the first time in a long time - we have a very formidable 2-ruck option that's both versatile and able to be deployed without us having to hide one either on the bench or deep forward. Both Ryder and Marshall are both genuine rucks and forwards (at this stage - RoMa is a better forward, Ryder is a more effective tap ruckman).

Perfect summation, Saintmatt!


Whoever wrote that article deserves to be sent to the bin, absolute goose who clearly didn't watch out game.

[Beno88]

49 hit outs to 12 suggests our ruckmen went ok.

[MC Gusto]

Paddy smashed it!!

[CQ SAINT]

Who wrote that rubbish. Sounds like he was racing a deadline and got the piss taken out of him in the lunch room. d**khead.

[Sanctorum]

We dominated the clearances and I thought Ryder’s understanding with Gresham and the other mids was outstanding. I haven’t seen ruckwork like that for a long time. Marshall kicked a goal and did plenty around the ground.

I’d be most surprised if Ratts doesn’t stick with the two rucks for now.

For one thing, if we play only one of them there is no height in our forward line apart from outstanding prospect Max King (a third-gamer) and Membrey (who plays tall, but is just short of being a KPP).

Here's my take FWIW ... The two ruck strategy wasn't on my radar (we're one of the few that did it and succeeded) but I'm bloody glad we did. A young ruckman going solo is going to find it difficult this year when faced with an experienced good ruckman who now only has to go a shorter length of game time this year. Where a young player may have ordinarily had an endurance advantage; not this year with 16 min q's.

On to our two ruckman. They are both very very very capable in their own right as ruckmen - Paddy has the runs on the board; is a big body and is widely regarded as one of the better exponents of pure tap work. Watching him put it down Gresh's throat time after time was quite frankly, borderline erotic. RoMa's development last year speaks for itself. So - we have two very capable rucks we can draw upon at any stage of the game. Watching Marshall regularly take Bruce (who I've maintained for many years is comfortably the worst forward/relief rucks in the history of the AFL) to cleaners on Sunday made me giggle out loud.

Onto this week. On election day last year - RoMa beat Grundy until the vital last 25 mins of the game when Grundy cut loose. I'd like to think that this week - with Grundy clearly hampered by a sore hip from last Thurs night - that Ryder will start each quarter and smash his knee into that hip flat out for 10 mins before RoMa comes in and either jumps all over him or, makes Roughead look Bruce-like silly.

Also - don't forget that RoMa arrived at our club as a tall forward. And he's a natural tall forward - he knows where to run and isn't just a 'dumb' tall option with no clue. Excellent contested mark and exceptional below his knees. Our forward line does NOT become unbalanced with Marshall (or a resting Ryder) in it (King and Marshall as the talls; Members as the hit up target + Lonie and Butler as the smalls). That's an excellent mix

For the first time in a long time - we have a very formidable 2-ruck option that's both versatile and able to be deployed without us having to hide one either on the bench or deep forward. Both Ryder and Marshall are both genuine rucks and forwards (at this stage - RoMa is a better forward, Ryder is a more effective tap ruckman).

Totally agree, and then there is Sean Abbott sitting in the wings, a more than adequate replacement if and when the selectors decide to give Paddy a break!! The 2 ruck option is what is going to bring this team a lot of success, not unlike 2008 onwards when the club brought in Michael Gardiner and Steven King which heralded a golden period for the club.

[Otiman]

Sometimes a ruckman is just a ruckman. I think that's where we ended up this week and that's okay when you dominate the hitouts and clearances. Their ability to stay fresh helped but as fitness improves and (if) game length stays the same, that eventually stops being relevant.

[kosifantutti]

Totally agree, and then there is Sean Abbott sitting in the wings, a more than adequate replacement if and when the selectors decide to give Paddy a break!! The 2 ruck option is what is going to bring this team a lot of success, not unlike 2008 onwards when the club brought in Michael Gardiner and Steven King which heralded a golden period for the club.

Sean would be handy in the impromptu cricket games.

[samuraisaint]

We absolutely dominated in the ruck Sunday night. DOM-EE-N8T-ED!

[freely]

Paddy smashed it!!

Couldn't agree more. It was a masterclass.

[magnifisaint]

Now I know why I dont read that s***

[saintspremiers]

I’d at the very least have Nathan Brown as an emergency and select him 90 minutes prior IF the radar suggests it will be a wet weather game.

The G dries very fast so even a wet morning and dry arvo means dry weather footy

[saintspremiers]

I’d at the very least have Nathan Brown as an emergency and select him 90 minutes prior IF the radar suggests it will be a wet weather game.

The G dries very fast so even a wet morning and dry arvo means dry weather footy

[Sainter_Dad]

49 hit outs to 12 suggests our ruckmen went ok.

Wasn't it something like 20 to 2 Hitouts to Advantage as well?

[samoht]

Grundy plays it solo - I'd prefer a pinch hitter like Battle who can also get the ball 15 or so times around the ground, and let Rowan Marshall get his usual, lazy 18 possessions as our main ruckman.

One double-handed hitout by Ryder went straight to a Bulldog player in the clear, and they ended up kicking a goal from it - hitout numbers don't tell the whole story - I'd rather our ruckmen win plenty of ball and take plenty of marks themselves around the ground.
Between them, Marshall and Ryder only had 16 possessions around the ground.

Let's not get carried away by hitout numbers or even hitouts to advantage - what about "hitouts to disadvantage or to no advantage" - where's the stat for that?
I think that stat would be a real eye-opener.

Ryder only had 5 possessions around the ground - Battle averaged around 15 possessions and 6 marks per game last year, playing in the backline.

We need to unleash Rowan - not molly coddle him - Grundy is ruck 95% of the time for Collingwood - he's not being handled "with kid gloves."

It's important to note that for all our "hitout dominance", we only won 3 more clearances than the Bulldogs ... 32 to 29 - we did not "dominate the clearances."

[bigcarl]

Grundy plays it solo - I'd prefer a pinch hitter like Battle who can also get the ball 15 or so times around the ground, and let Rowan Marshall get his usual, lazy 18 possessions as our main ruckman.

One double-handed hitout by Ryder went straight to a Bulldog player in the clear, and they ended up kicking a goal from it - hitout numbers don't tell the whole story - I'd rather our ruckmen win plenty of ball and take plenty of marks themselves around the ground.
Between them, Marshall and Ryder only had 16 possessions around the ground.

Let's not get carried away by hitout numbers or even hitouts to advantage - what about "hitouts to disadvantage or to no advantage" - where's the stat for that?
I think that stat would be a real eye-opener.

Ryder only had 5 possessions around the ground - Battle averaged around 15 possessions and 6 marks per game last year, playing in the backline.

We need to unleash Rowan - not molly coddle him - Grundy is ruck 95% of the time for Collingwood - he's not being handled "with kid gloves."

It's important to note that for all our "hitout dominance", we only won 3 more clearances than the Bulldogs ... 32 to 29 - we did not "dominate the clearances."

I hear Battle has no vertical leap. If so, he’s going to struggle as a pinch hit ruckman.

I’d prefer that we move on from the “one real ruckman and one pinch hitter” strategy. Unless you have a pinch hitter that can actually ruck. In which case he’s not a pinch hitter.

That said, I’d like to find a spot for Battle ... and Roberton and a few others. But it’s hard to break into a side that won really well. Someone will replace the injured Geary, but I’d expect minimal other changes.

[samoht]

I expect minimal changes, too, big carl ... given how we played - and fair enough, too.
A pinch-hitter does need some sort of vertical leap to nullify a bigger ruckman - so you could be right re: Battle.
Does Marsh have a vertical leap.... ?

The thing is -
We need more possessions around the ground from our ruck combo - so Marshall as the main ruckman getting his usual 18 or so possessions (he only got 11 last week) with a pinch-hitter that can get the ball another 15 plus times as well - is what I'd be aiming for.
Say around 35 possessions from our ruck combo would be my aim vs the 16 that we only had last weekend.

Grundy gets 20 possessions on his own.

[bigcarl]

I expect minimal changes, too, big carl ... given how we played - and fair enough, too.
A pinch-hitter does need some sort of vertical leap to nullify a bigger ruckman - so you could be right re: Battle.
Does Marsh have a vertical leap.... ?

I don’t even know that Battle doesn’t have one. That just what someone said on here. He’d certainly be useful in other areas.

I do think that the way Ryder/Marshall totally eclipsed English/Bruce was key to our win on Sunday and worthy of a try against Grundy. Can’t afford to let him dominate even patches of the game.

Ratts has indicated a “horses for course” approach to whether we play one or two real ruckmen. Though it’s not fashionable to play two, I don’t mind it. Gives us a point of difference against the other sheep.

Make them match up on us, not the other way around.

[samoht]

Ratts has indicated a “horses for course” approach to whether we play one or two real ruckmen. Though it’s not fashionable to play two, I don’t mind it. Gives us a point of difference against the other sheep.

Make them match up on us, not the other way around.

I think with the right main ruckman - who is Marshall - and the right pinch hitter (whoever that may be), we'd have a "two horses (or a horse and a pony) for all courses " approach - where this notional "duo" could theoretically rack up 35 plus possessions between them, week in week out.

I mean, Grundy will go it alone against us, as per usual, and do 100% of the ruckwork - which means that added to his usual 20 possessions, they will have another ground-level player/playmaker included in their team who's likely to rack up another 20 plus possessions - it could be a genuine midfielder.

If Ryder and Marshall only have 16 possessions against this between them (as they did against the Dogs) - we're basically going in a midfielder short. That's a lot to concede.

Extra ruckmen are like extra batteries on an electric cars --- at some point adding too many batteries weighs the car down - and you don't add to the car's range.

[bergsone]

Playing only 1 ruckman who is our pinch hit backup,dont like Carlise in this roll.Marsh maybe