What is your 2020 vision?

[BackFromUSA]

Well trade week is upon us. What is your vision for 2020? Here is mine!

My Dream Trades would be:

Josh Bruce and pick 57 for pick 13 from Western Bulldogs. 13 is just too much for Bruce but they need him big time. Throwing in pick 57 makes it more attractive and justifiable for them. They will pick up Keath from Adelaide for a player swap (as Adelaide need players) and may use our 57 as a sweetener on that.

Pick 13 and Acres for Hill and a future 3rd rounder from Fremantle. Effectively this gives us Hill and retains our Pick 6 for the cost of Bruce and Acres and losing pick 57 this year and gaining a 3rd rounder next year.

Our pick 79 and Dunstan for Ryder and Howard. I am not interested in Gray due to our plethora of small forwards unless one of our small forwards becomes part of this trade. e.g. Lonie for Gray.

Steven and our future 3rd Rounder (not Fremantle’s future 3rd Rounder) for pick 17 from Geelong

Newnes compensation pick in the 2nd round so pick 25 or 3rd round pick 43.

Future second rounder for Zak Jones from Swans (they accepted future second rounder for Hannebery)

Carlisle and our pick 6 for Ben King - meaning Gold Coast get the same pick they used last year plus an experienced player

In: Hill, Ryder, B. King , Howard, Jones

Also Effectively In: Roberton, M. King, Bytel

This years draft picks: 17, 25 (or 43) and 69

Upgrades: Wilkie

Out: Bruce, Steven, Carlisle, Newnes, Acres, Dunstan

Delisting: Pierce, Armitage, Longer, Rowe (all retired)

Next years draft picks: 1st, 3rd (from Fremantle) and 4th round picks

That leaves us with coverage for:

Tall defenders: Brown, Howard, Joyce, Austin, B. King, Battle, Clavarino, Marsh

Intercepters: Roberton, Wilkie, McKenzie, White

Lock down small defender: Geary, Paton, Rice

Running defender: Savage, Jones, Webster, Coffield, Clark, Long, Hind

Inside mids: Hannebery, Steele, Jones, Bytel, Ross, Gresham

Outside mids: Hill, Billings, Hannebery, Sinclair, Jones, Gresham, Clark, Coffield, Young, Hind, Phillips

Small forwards: Gresham, Sinclair, Billings, Lonie, Long, Hind, Young, Kent, Parker

3rd Tall Forward: Membrey, Battle, Parker

Tall forward: M. King, McCartin, Howard, Joyce

Ruck / Forward: Marshall, Ryder, Howard, Joyce

We definitely need to draft or rookie a mature ruckman / forward e.g Corey Gault (WA)

My best team:

B: Geary Howard Wilkie
HB: Roberton B.King Webster
C: Clark Hannebery Hill
HF: Membrey Marshall Billings
F: Gresham M.King Sinclair

R: Ryder Ross Steele

Interchange: Jones, Bytel, Battle, Coffield

Emergency: Brown, Savage, Hind, Long

Note all the small forwards can play midfield minutes which is important in my view so that we have plenty of run in the tank come the last quarter.

[To the top]

Quite frankly, what abject nonsense

[cwrcyn]

It's quite a scenario, and well thought out. I'm not sure clubs dealing with us will be prepared to be so generous with picks for our players, but hey, why not throw it out there. If we had a second and third round pick this year I'd be more optimistic of us having the cards to play a strong hand, but our bargaining power is limited. If the club can pull off anything like that...well...i'd be amazed. Unfortunately, I suspect that it will be two players in and two players out.

[shanegrambeau]

Pardon my ignorance,. But is Marshall a good set kick from 50?

[bigred]

Well that would be the best trade period by any club over the past twenty years. Probably ever.

[B.M]

If Ryder is ahead of Marshal as #1 ruck, I’ll eat my hat!

[minneapolis]

If Ryder is ahead of Marshal as #1 ruck, I’ll eat my hat!

Homburg or Stetson?

[BackFromUSA]

If Ryder is ahead of Marshal as #1 ruck, I’ll eat my hat!

He isn’t around the ground. In that sense Marshall is top 5 in the AFL already. Grundy, Goldstein, Gawn, Martin then Marshall.

He is in tapwork. Not just numbers of taps but also the work required to ensure the ruckman defends the opposition tap zones.

Unless you were a ruckman this often gets overlooked.

Ryder will teach him this skill and as his body matures Marshall will get better at it.

Marshall may amaze us as a CHF.

Has all the tools.

Toughest position to play.

[BackFromUSA]

Quite frankly, what abject nonsense

Thanks. What’s your 2020 vision?

[Scollop]

Keep Acres and I don't mind if ANY of your other visions come to fruition

[Ghost Like]

Pardon my ignorance,. But is Marshall a good set kick from 50?

Yes. As good as anyone currently on our list.

Thanks BfUSA, if you have one vision that materialises for 2020 then I hope it's the OP.

[fugazi]

Comprehensive vision Back from USA

For me:
Hill for Pick 6
Would love to see us extract B.King for next year's 1st.

Apart from that I think we need to trade out some of our small forwards and half back flanker and get in some picks for genuine midfielders.

[SaintPav]

Keep Acres and I don't mind if ANY of your other visions come to fruition

Why Scollop?

Acres is all potential. He’s been very disappointing. Seems to me that he has some good tools but not the work ethic to take it to the next level.

[Sanctorum]

A comprehensive analysis BUSA and I'm with you on most of your predictions except for the Best Team selections.

My wish is for Geelong to allow Charlie Constable to come to St Kilda for Jack Steven, and I'm not convinced that we need to give Port Dunstan and our pick 79 for Ryder/Howard - Ryder shouldn't cost more than a 3rd or 4th rounder and Howard's stats (45 games in 5 seasons) deserves a similar pick (future if necessary) - I firmly believe Dunstan will become a gun under Ratten's coaching.

Dogs 1st round pick 13 for Bruce plus our 3rd round pick is a far stretch, doubt that Dogs are that desperate but be great if it happens and that would certainly enable your proposal to get Hill across from Freo with pick 13 and Acres.

Your plan to bring Ben King over from GCS is certainly visionary but he is contracted for 2020 so that is a very long shot - however 2021 is another story .

Outs for 2020: Armitage, Longer, Pierce, Bruce, Steven, Newnes, Acres

Ins for 2020: Hill, Ryder and Jones

Return from injury: Max King and Jack Bytel - Roberton remains under a cloud until he has proven his full recovery and match fitness in at least 2 or 3 full games in the seconds.

Best Team:

B: Savage, Brown, Paton
HB: Coffield, Carlisle, Wilkie
C: Hill, Ross, Billings
HF: Membrey, Marshall, Long
F: Gresham, King, Hind
R: Ryder, Steele, Dunstan
Int: Clark, Hannebery, Battle, Jones
Emerg: Lonie, Webster, Parker

I realise that many supporters will shoot me down in flames for having the temerity to omit Jarryn Geary - I understand that but I just don't see him rating in the Saints' best 25 next year - at best he is mediocre and whilst we can applaud his previous leadership I think the 2020 Saints under a new coach deserve to be led by a new leader - Seb Ross or Jack Steele - now surely that is visionary!

In another post the other day I added the following comments: "In scrutinising the St Kilda player list for this exercise it struck me that IMHO there are very few if any other players that would seriously challenge for "Best 25" - Sinclair is probably unlucky as he can play, and White, Phillips, McKenzie, Kent are borderline, but in essence the Saints talent pool is quite shallow".

[Raph Goat Clarke]

Finally someone that actually understands that we need to give up value in order to get value back. Very hard to read some posters on here and bf overrating our players creating unrealistic trades. This was well thought out, good work.

[st.byron]

Good OP BFUSA, a little on the optimistic side I reckon, but dreams are dreams. I would also love to swap Steven for Constable but don't reckon that will happen.

I also wonder how realistic it is to surmise that Freo will accept 13 plus Acres for Hill. Would do it if it was on offer, but I reckon they'll be wanting 6. Then they can really push for Kelly.

I'm also not a big fan of us continuing to give up future picks. It's like buying stuff on credit. You have to pay for it eventually, sometimes when you actually need liquidity. Would be nice to enter a trade period with picks in the bank.

I would also like to see Howard come in. Clearly Ratts and co want another big bodied defender, otherwise they wouldn't have gone after Keath. Howard is 23 and could turn out to be an excellent get. Not sure about letting Dunstan go, I've always been a fan. But you have to give to get. Would also be happy to see the back of Carlisle. It seems they are already planning for life beyond Jake and if Howard comes in, maybe Jake will suddenly be on the table.

Agree re Gray. No idea why we've even expressed interest in him. We have an abundance of small forwards already and Gray doesn't appear to be an upgrade on any of our existing small forwards.

Would also be happy to see Newnes to via free agency, but it seems no-one is really interested. Based on what Richmond for for Ellis, don't reckon we'd be getting a second rounder for Jack Newnes. Perhaps a third rounder.

[takeaway]

I wouldn't offer 13 and Acres for Hill. Say Acres is worth a second rounder, that values Hill at pick 4/5. I don't think Hill is even worth pick 6 alone. Freo unlikely to offer 26 back though - that values Hill at pick 18 - not enough. I think he is worth 10-15.

Interesting the Age reported this morning that Saints were looking to split pick 6. WCE would be desperate to get a top 10 pick, they currently have 14 & 24, which is valued marginally more than pick 6, but they may go for it, they then have 6,33 and future pick for Kelly. A top 10 pick would be more attractive to Geelong. Port have 10 & 29, which may be an option with later picks/player thrown in. Hawks 11 and 30 is another option.

I would be talking to WCE, pick 14 for Hill and we have 24 to play with. Freo may hold firm, but after other trades some extra change could be thrown their way.

[Joffa Burns]

Not my wish as I wouldn’t trade Bruce or pick up Ryder and I’m not sure what Doogie Howser MD is worth in terms of a trade, but based on what we are reportedly chasing.

Newnes FA - compensation about #54

Saints picks: #6, #54 (FA), #59, #71, #81

#6 + #54 to Freo for Hill & #26

#26 + Steven to Geelong For #17 + #56

#17 + Bruce to Dogs for #13 & #32

#32 to Swans for Jones

#81 to Power for Ryder

Future pick for Howard

#13 - make a play for Ed Langdon @ Freo, trade for a decent mid or take to draft

#56 to Power for S Gray, take it or leave it (probably packed with Ryder and Howard)

In: #13 + Hill + Jones + Ryder + Howard + Gray

Out: #6, Bruce, Newnes, Steven, future pick

Left with -: #13 + #59 + #71

[Stephen Theodore]

Well that would be the best trade period by any club over the past twenty years. Probably ever.

Yep, extremely optimistic

[Joffa Burns]

Well that would be the best trade period by any club over the past twenty years. Probably ever.

Yep, extremely optimistic

Essendon turned #11 & #30 into Devon Smith, Adam Saad & Jake Stringer with a little bit of loose change as well.

[B.M]

I find the phrase

You need to give up quality to get quality

Very strange

If you’re actually trying to improve?!

[Scollop]

Keep Acres and I don't mind if ANY of your other visions come to fruition

Why Scollop?

Acres is all potential. He’s been very disappointing. Seems to me that he has some good tools but not the work ethic to take it to the next level.

cheers thanks. I just would have liked seeing him for a year under Ratts before the club made those decisions...but I'm not privy to all the info

[barneyboyz]

Keep Acres and I don't mind if ANY of your other visions come to fruition

Why Scollop?

Acres is all potential. He’s been very disappointing. Seems to me that he has some good tools but not the work ethic to take it to the next level.

cheers thanks. I just would have liked seeing him for a year under Ratts before the club made those decisions...but I'm not privy to all the info

I think it was pretty clear that Acres didn't have full support of his previous coach, and that might have been because of a lack of training effort??? He has also had some injuries which are more than difficult to overcome.

Acres playing for Freo (or anyone else) just smacks of coming back to bite us to me

[SaintPav]

Not my wish as I wouldn’t trade Bruce or pick up Ryder and I’m not sure what Doogie Howser MD is worth in terms of a trade, but based on what we are reportedly chasing.

Newnes FA - compensation about #54

Saints picks: #6, #54 (FA), #59, #71, #81

#6 + #54 to Freo for Hill & #26

#26 + Steven to Geelong For #17 + #56

#17 + Bruce to Dogs for #13 & #32

#32 to Swans for Jones

#81 to Power for Ryder

Future pick for Howard

#13 - make a play for Ed Langdon @ Freo, trade for a decent mid or take to draft

#56 to Power for S Gray, take it or leave it (probably packed with Ryder and Howard)

In: #13 + Hill + Jones + Ryder + Howard + Gray

Out: #6, Bruce, Newnes, Steven, future pick

Left with -: #13 + #59 + #71

Noice...rule noice...

[To the top]

2020?

Battle Austin Coffield
Clark Carlisle Roberton
Hill Acres Jones
Long Marshall Billings
Gresham King Membrey
Ryder Steele Hannebery
Ross Dunstan Bytel Wilkie

To be included if available Steven, Bruce and Mc Cartin

The problem from there is depth - and that is an issue for 2021 and onwards by Drafting and Free Agency

To me the above side addresses our failures over recent seasons and sets sights on an improved future and significantly so as we build experience into that side - a side which includes significant class