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evertonfc wrote: ↑Fri 27 Sep 2019 11:28am
Bruce's kicking got me down a bit at times, but hell - what a warrior, and what a heart-and-soul player.
You couldn't accuse him of giving any less than 110% every time he played.
I am extremely disappointed to lose him. His physical presence was enormous, and seldom did he let a pack go without being crashed and getting it to ground level. Milne would have LOVED playing next to him.
I can't really see the value we are getting here. He's worth a top 10-15 pick to us, but the Dogs will probably get him for much less. It's a fantastic deal for them, no matter which way you cut it.
I really can't figure out what we're gaining from the deal. They're going to get a guy who will kick 150 goals for them - he can definitely get to 40 goals per year with the service their midfield provides.
I so agree.
Unless we get a 10-15 pick I'll be gutted.
Even if we do I'll still be gutted at losing the Brooster.
Our forward half will be gutted too.
I think for the club, it’s not just about his value as a player. It seems that the club wants to ship him out based on his attitude as much as needing to give to get re draft picks. I reckon there’s more to it than just a valuation based on his on field contributions. If Ratts and football management don’t want him on the list because of his attitude or behaviour, then they may be willing to let him go for less than it would appear on the surface, that he’s worth. Reckon pick 12 is well over par and if that kind of deal was on offer would snap it up.
I find it weird that all of a sudden Bruce is being bagged as a not a good team mate. He travels with a lot of the players and they seem to go to lots of social stuff together. His main group seems to Steven, Newnes, Billings, Gresham, Dunstan, Roberton etc. Most of the better mid career players. Since he had a kid he seems to do less but was still at VFL games late in the season with some others. Anyway the club has to sell it to fans and if that means they have to make out he's a s*** person so be it. It sounds like there is a rumour that we want 12 from the Dogs but will give back the best of the picks we get for Newnes or Steven. Potentially our best player and another first picked for pick 12. It's a big gamble because we will probably have to give up at least one of those picks for Jones and I assume 12 (13 after PP) will be used at the draft.
I would have kept Bruce myself, it exposes King to the best defender and I imagine they will physically target him. Lethleans footy department set to be a bit prone to gambling their way through the rebuild.
Meh - we weren't gonna win a GF with Bruce and he has had some injury problems in the last few years and this could be a cause for concern along with his age
28 next year
One week he might kick 5 and then the next couple of weeks nothing ........ and the dropped sitters
Pretty sure our management would have weighed up the pros and cons especially if we could nab another first rounder
Will be interesting how desperate the Dogs are and what they are willing to cough up given its an area of weakness for them - I doubt it will take them to another GF though
evertonfc wrote: ↑Fri 27 Sep 2019 11:28am
Bruce's kicking got me down a bit at times, but hell - what a warrior, and what a heart-and-soul player.
You couldn't accuse him of giving any less than 110% every time he played.
I am extremely disappointed to lose him. His physical presence was enormous, and seldom did he let a pack go without being crashed and getting it to ground level. Milne would have LOVED playing next to him.
I can't really see the value we are getting here. He's worth a top 10-15 pick to us, but the Dogs will probably get him for much less. It's a fantastic deal for them, no matter which way you cut it.
I really can't figure out what we're gaining from the deal. They're going to get a guy who will kick 150 goals for them - he can definitely get to 40 goals per year with the service their midfield provides.
I so agree.
Unless we get a 10-15 pick I'll be gutted.
Even if we do I'll still be gutted at losing the Brooster.
Our forward half will be gutted too.
I think for the club, it’s not just about his value as a player. It seems that the club wants to ship him out based on his attitude as much as needing to give to get re draft picks. I reckon there’s more to it than just a valuation based on his on field contributions. If Ratts and football management don’t want him on the list because of his attitude or behaviour, then they may be willing to let him go for less than it would appear on the surface, that he’s worth. Reckon pick 12 is well over par and if that kind of deal was on offer would snap it up.
I find it weird that all of a sudden Bruce is being bagged as a not a good team mate. He travels with a lot of the players and they seem to go to lots of social stuff together. His main group seems to Steven, Newnes, Billings, Gresham, Dunstan, Roberton etc. Most of the better mid career players. Since he had a kid he seems to do less but was still at VFL games late in the season with some others. Anyway the club has to sell it to fans and if that means they have to make out he's a s*** person so be it. It sounds like there is a rumour that we want 12 from the Dogs but will give back the best of the picks we get for Newnes or Steven. Potentially our best player and another first picked for pick 12. It's a big gamble because we will probably have to give up at least one of those picks for Jones and I assume 12 (13 after PP) will be used at the draft.
I would have kept Bruce myself, it exposes King to the best defender and I imagine they will physically target him. Lethleans footy department set to be a bit prone to gambling their way through the rebuild.
With no disrespect directed to Tony... I’ve found a lot of what he’s posted as attitude from inside the club to be a bit concerning.
In the last 18months it’s been:
- a perception that White isn’t very smart
- Carlisle is an average bloke
- Bruce has an attitude problem
And maybe a few other tidbits I don’t remember
It feels a little clickey to me with an undercurrent of blame culture.
One gets the impression that you certainly wouldn’t want to be the player that asks... ‘has anyone considered this instead’
st.byron wrote: ↑Fri 27 Sep 2019 3:00pm
I think for the club, it’s not just about his value as a player. It seems that the club wants to ship him out based on his attitude as much as needing to give to get re draft picks. I reckon there’s more to it than just a valuation based on his on field contributions. If Ratts and football management don’t want him on the list because of his attitude or behaviour, then they may be willing to let him go for less than it would appear on the surface, that he’s worth. Reckon pick 12 is well over par and if that kind of deal was on offer would snap it up.
So in 5 pages of posts this topic has swung from a debate about whether Bruce should stay or go based on opinions about his abilty and value to the team
to he has an attitude problem and is not liked and therefore needs to go
Based on one poster starting this ball rolling (back on page 3)
This is exactly how social media is used to deflect and create "truth"
Probably by tomorrow there will be a mainstream story on how Bruce created a toxic culture at St Kilda
It's not the first time I've heard that Josh is not the greatest influence in and around the playing group. It's speculation indeed suggesting that the club may be willing to accept less for him because they want him out. But it does seem that maybe he's not well regarded within the club and if that's the case there must be a reason for that. Tony74 wouldn't post that without reason. I also heard similar info from a fella I know who worked with the playing group for a couple of years.
My take on it is that we are not just reshaping the list but reshaping the culture as well. There's a distinctly Hawthorn influence and that can't be a bad thing given the success they've had.
How will Hannabery and Carlisle fit into this new culture?
st.byron wrote: ↑Fri 27 Sep 2019 3:00pm
I think for the club, it’s not just about his value as a player. It seems that the club wants to ship him out based on his attitude as much as needing to give to get re draft picks. I reckon there’s more to it than just a valuation based on his on field contributions. If Ratts and football management don’t want him on the list because of his attitude or behaviour, then they may be willing to let him go for less than it would appear on the surface, that he’s worth. Reckon pick 12 is well over par and if that kind of deal was on offer would snap it up.
So in 5 pages of posts this topic has swung from a debate about whether Bruce should stay or go based on opinions about his abilty and value to the team
to he has an attitude problem and is not liked and therefore needs to go
Based on one poster starting this ball rolling (back on page 3)
This is exactly how social media is used to deflect and create "truth"
Probably by tomorrow there will be a mainstream story on how Bruce created a toxic culture at St Kilda
It's not the first time I've heard that Josh is not the greatest influence in and around the playing group. It's speculation indeed suggesting that the club may be willing to accept less for him because they want him out. But it does seem that maybe he's not well regarded within the club and if that's the case there must be a reason for that. Tony74 wouldn't post that without reason. I also heard similar info from a fella I know who worked with the playing group for a couple of years.
My take on it is that we are not just reshaping the list but reshaping the culture as well. There's a distinctly Hawthorn influence and that can't be a bad thing given the success they've had.
How will Hannabery and Carlisle fit into this new culture?
No idea. It just seems to me - new coach, new director of football or whatever Rath’s title is, Roughead - that there may be a deliberate intention to shift the culture within the club. There might not be but I doubt that six years of failure and Richo has left a legacy of culture that doesn’t at least need tweaking.
The dogs have that teenager forward, can't remember his name- Aaron something?
who scored 3-5 goals a few times, he seems to be a decent mark for a young bloke.
So I am confused about why their forward line has a "weakness"?
A real Sainter will pledge allegiance to the ❤ and despise the Pies, the Blues, and the Injectors.
Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
No idea. It just seems to me - new coach, new director of football or whatever Rath’s title is, Roughead - that there may be a deliberate intention to shift the culture within the club. There might not be but I doubt that six years of failure and Richo has left a legacy of culture that doesn’t at least need tweaking.
Reading between the lines after Richo has left, from what a number of different people have said it would seem that the period under Richo was characterised by the playing group not being focused, or hard working enough, to be an elite team. This also flows through to players not becoming as good as they could be.
ie Roo comments amongst others on training intensity.
I also note Billings comments early this year attributing his improvement in large part to Slater.
This does not mean a bad culture re being a party culture etc, but rather not a culture of all doing everything they need to be successful as individuals and as a team.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
WellardSaint wrote: ↑Fri 27 Sep 2019 6:25pm
The dogs have that teenager forward, can't remember his name- Aaron something?
who scored 3-5 goals a few times, he seems to be a decent mark for a young bloke.
So I am confused about why their forward line has a "weakness"?
Yes Aaron Naughton is a KF and looking like a star in the making.
However Schache is not as good and is up and down. Bruce is an upgrade on Schache.
Bruce is also more physical than the other two and will provide a point of difference.
With the Dogs too, they are teetering now on playing in a GF again and so with their list they are looking how that they can make an already good list better. Hence Keath and Bruce.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
Overreaction by so many here about what a loss he will be. He was good but let’s get some perspective.
We are a bottom 8 team and he has never been touted as one of our stars.
Max King will play next year. His brother is speculated to join him the year after. Ryder may be on his way.
Bruce was shopped around by the club and has some currency at a time when we need a stronger hand in the draft.
For a bottom 8 side we aren’t losing much and have improvement from within as well as others that could arrive as tall forwards from elsewhere that will fill any void Bruce leaves behind.
If it means we can also snare Hill then seriously it’s a no brainer.
Good move for Bruce considering: who we have and want, where the Dogs are at, and the Saints shopped him around. If he goes I wish him well with no hard feelings.
Could be a win for both the Saints and Bruce long term.
Big picture people.
You could speculate that the appointment of Ratten was a succession plan come the end of Richardson’s Contract and that Ratten had certain opinions upon arriving at St Kilda re education and development particularly of our younger players including pattern expectations
You could speculate that, as the Senior Coach in waiting Ratten is in the position of having spent 12 months at the Club formulating who and what he views is sustainable in the quest for firstly appearing in September then challenging for that elusive premiership
Ratten is focussed on success - and a long term career as Coach of St Kilda
His finger prints will be all over what is happening
And he is a very focused, balanced and intelligent person - who also enjoys a bit of fun so different to the intensity of a Clarkson
In the Coach and HIS players we put our trust
He knows the deficiencies - and the strengths, so will focus on both seeking the necessary improvements
And to answer my own question but from the opposite to contributors, Hine with 22 Points was the only St Kilda player accruing less points than Bruce, who accrued 38
The stats from that game, where only WB’s straight kicking evaded a scoreboard blowout, are interesting
17.14 to 14.5
So comfortable
The stats from that game player by player are educational in regards the future for St Kilda - and we add Hill and Ryder (at least), losing Bruce
That WB game should be the start point in respect to expectations - including because of who contributed
I'm not torn over this. Bruce always found it pretty hard to get seperation on his opponent and have away his fare share of frees trying to pluck a mark. He was a good forward, but not a great one. Yeah our delivery wasn't the greatest. But having someone with presence who can demand the ball in the forward line is the other part of the connection. It rarely worked for Bruce so I'm happy to see a King and Membrey controlling the forward half.
CURLY wrote: ↑Thu 26 Sep 2019 8:28pm
Happy with this. We won nothing with him playing at his best can’t see him improving.
Yeah cos it had nothing to do with the abysmal supply he got
Absolutely. 10000%. Worst midfield by foot in the modern era of the AFL. I’d have hated to have played infront of Ross, Dunstan, Gresh & Steven’s abominable footskills
I hope being liked around the club didn't have too much to do with the move, as opposed to team structure...maybe that's why we have so many likable half backs?
Someone who claims some inside knowledge on Bigfooty just suggested Lethelean and Bruce didn't get along. I think this sounds like a power play by Lethlean. Also Gresham sounds like he was shopped around but only for overs. Might be a full on second rebuild with most of the older and mid career guys being traded out for similar B graders with no history at the club. Build around Marshall, Battle Clark types I guess. Oh well looks like another 5 years in the wilderness for us long suffering fans.
Alright I will take jaxons retrospective comment on board as a given
However in light of this I would like clarification on bruce vs carlisle attitude rating
And I can live with Bruce wanting a big contract and moving to dogs
But the ONE thing that will get me furious with the club is if there is still a belief that Paddy will come good and fill the spot left by Bruce
sunsaint wrote: ↑Sat 28 Sep 2019 1:34pm
Alright I will take jaxons retrospective comment on board as a given
However in light of this I would like clarification on bruce vs carlisle attitude rating
And I can live with Bruce wanting a big contract and moving to dogs
But the ONE thing that will get me furious with the club is if there is still a belief that Paddy will come good and fill the spot left by Bruce
Where’s Jaxons’ comments on this?
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
and despise the Pies, the Blues, and the Injectors.
