Two things (or my 2 cents)
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- Sainter_Dad
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Two things (or my 2 cents)
Thing Number One:
Speed is important - but no where near as important as accurate disposals - the fastest runner will not outpace a great 40 metre kick to advantage - we have been banging on about speed and it would be good to have fast outside players, but until we disposal right, having break away speed is irrelevant if we then kick it to the opposition (or worse still handball it to them)
Thing Number Two:
The midfield is the issue - is now - was in the past - will always hold us back if we cannot solve it. If we lose it in the middle we are chasing our tail to the backline, we then flood the backline and get it back, only to have no structure up forward. Watching even Essendon this week, the ball was recovered in the backline, and there was a clear chain to the forward line, we do not have that - we break down, and the forwards need to drift up and 'assist' as a get out.
I am no coach, and it is not as simple an answer as I would hope. But surely if we start keeping someone permanently in the F50, the opposition would need to mark that player in case of the get out kick gets through to that player. This is true for every line on the field. Sure drift up to support your fellow players, but in doing so you are also dragging the opposition with you. Result is a congested game that we are not good at - we have some powerful forwards, and some great link players, but with no targets we struggle to clear it from the backline and so see the ball sail over the top.
These are not the only answers and it is only from my limited knowledge of the team, but football is not that hard - we seem to be trying to make it that way - and teams are killing us on the overlap.
Please - I welcome discussion, and I am hurting as much as everyone here - but surely there is a way of us moving forward - the light at the end of the tunnel is not a train coming towards us!
Speed is important - but no where near as important as accurate disposals - the fastest runner will not outpace a great 40 metre kick to advantage - we have been banging on about speed and it would be good to have fast outside players, but until we disposal right, having break away speed is irrelevant if we then kick it to the opposition (or worse still handball it to them)
Thing Number Two:
The midfield is the issue - is now - was in the past - will always hold us back if we cannot solve it. If we lose it in the middle we are chasing our tail to the backline, we then flood the backline and get it back, only to have no structure up forward. Watching even Essendon this week, the ball was recovered in the backline, and there was a clear chain to the forward line, we do not have that - we break down, and the forwards need to drift up and 'assist' as a get out.
I am no coach, and it is not as simple an answer as I would hope. But surely if we start keeping someone permanently in the F50, the opposition would need to mark that player in case of the get out kick gets through to that player. This is true for every line on the field. Sure drift up to support your fellow players, but in doing so you are also dragging the opposition with you. Result is a congested game that we are not good at - we have some powerful forwards, and some great link players, but with no targets we struggle to clear it from the backline and so see the ball sail over the top.
These are not the only answers and it is only from my limited knowledge of the team, but football is not that hard - we seem to be trying to make it that way - and teams are killing us on the overlap.
Please - I welcome discussion, and I am hurting as much as everyone here - but surely there is a way of us moving forward - the light at the end of the tunnel is not a train coming towards us!
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Re: Two things (or my 2 cents)
I vote we using an anti aging machine to bring back Robert Harvey and Lenny Hayes to help jack Steven in the middle. While we are at it, use it on Rooey, and maybe bring back Chips into the backline
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- Joffa Burns
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Re: Two things (or my 2 cents)
I think you are right about the midfield dad.
We lack speed, foot skills and class in the midfield.
Until this is addressed we will be middle of the road.
Good news is 2 top ten picks and free agency gives the opportunity for swift rectification.
We lack speed, foot skills and class in the midfield.
Until this is addressed we will be middle of the road.
Good news is 2 top ten picks and free agency gives the opportunity for swift rectification.
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- saintsRrising
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Re: Two things (or my 2 cents)
The record of lower placed teams gaining star FA's is not a good one.Joffa Burns wrote:and free agency gives the opportunity for swift rectification.
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- Con Gorozidis
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Re: Two things (or my 2 cents)
Spoken like someone who is slow.Sainter_Dad wrote:Thing Number One:
Speed is important - but no where near as important as accurate disposals - the fastest runner will not outpace a great 40 metre kick to advantage - we have been banging on about speed and it would be good to have fast outside players, but until we disposal right, having break away speed is irrelevant if we then kick it to the opposition (or worse still handball it to them)
The problem is you sometimes need speed to clear from traffic around stoppages so you can find time and space to allow your players up field to make more space. The argument isnt 'speed vs kicking' like you have to trade them off and cant have both. Clearly some champion players are slow and great kicks e.g Sam Mitchell. But it isnt one or the other. You can have BOTH! So your are drawing a false and unnecessary trade-off. You dont need to trade off kicking for pace or vice versa. Good sides have both. We need both. Right now we have neither.
- Con Gorozidis
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Re: Two things (or my 2 cents)
Yep. Kelly and Martin are currently in top 4 sides. They will receive big $$ contract offers from their current clubs. Our bargaining position is weak.saintsRrising wrote:The record of lower placed teams gaining star FA's is not a good one.Joffa Burns wrote:and free agency gives the opportunity for swift rectification.
All we can offer Kelly is geographic proximity to his friends and family and maybe a little extra money.
I am not sure we can offer Martin anything Richmond cant offer.
- Joffa Burns
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Re: Two things (or my 2 cents)
Yep, pay overs in the $ department is our only hope.Con Gorozidis wrote:Yep. Kelly and Martin are currently in top 4 sides. They will receive big $$ contract offers from their current clubs. Our bargaining position is weak.saintsRrising wrote:The record of lower placed teams gaining star FA's is not a good one.Joffa Burns wrote:and free agency gives the opportunity for swift rectification.
All we can offer Kelly is geographic proximity to his friends and family and maybe a little extra money.
I am not sure we can offer Martin anything Richmond cant offer.
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- White Winmar
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Re: Two things (or my 2 cents)
One of the reasons Kelly is a gun is that he's surrounded by other guns. When you have Sheil, Scully, Greene, Whitfield etc. around you it's nowhere near as hard to shine as when you're surrounded by liabilities. Kelly at the saints won't be the same as the player he is at GWS. We need three guns and have at least two of our own to come on to take advantage of any potentially elite recruits we acquire.
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- White Winmar
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Re: Two things (or my 2 cents)
One of the reasons Kelly is a gun is that he's surrounded by other guns. When you have Sheil, Scully, Greene, Whitfield etc. around you it's nowhere near as hard to shine as when you're surrounded by liabilities. Kelly at the saints won't be the same as the player he is at GWS. We need three guns and have at least two of our own to come on to take advantage of any potentially elite recruits we acquire.
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Re: Two things (or my 2 cents)
Absolutely agree with the above, Kelly given half a free rein at GWS, be a lot easier to sit on him as a Saint. For what it's worth I don't think either Kelly or Martin will go anywhere.White Winmar wrote:One of the reasons Kelly is a gun is that he's surrounded by other guns. When you have Sheil, Scully, Greene, Whitfield etc. around you it's nowhere near as hard to shine as when you're surrounded by liabilities. Kelly at the saints won't be the same as the player he is at GWS. We need three guns and have at least two of our own to come on to take advantage of any potentially elite recruits we acquire.
- Con Gorozidis
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Re: Two things (or my 2 cents)
Good point.White Winmar wrote:One of the reasons Kelly is a gun is that he's surrounded by other guns. When you have Sheil, Scully, Greene, Whitfield etc. around you it's nowhere near as hard to shine as when you're surrounded by liabilities. Kelly at the saints won't be the same as the player he is at GWS. We need three guns and have at least two of our own to come on to take advantage of any potentially elite recruits we acquire.
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Re: Two things (or my 2 cents)
Exactly. We aren't going to be a destination club for a star FA until we look like a finals side ready to push deep into September. Anybody who thinks otherwise is delusional.saintsRrising wrote:The record of lower placed teams gaining star FA's is not a good one.Joffa Burns wrote:and free agency gives the opportunity for swift rectification.
If our form line doesn't reverse and we finish lower on the ladder than last year, then that will put even more doubt in the minds of future FAs about coming to St Kilda. We are stuck with the draft to turn it around and the hope we can snag a fringe player seeking opportunity who can come good.
Personally I think we should sink a bunch of money into getting a few really good proven talent spotters and also making sure we keep Ameet on the books. Right now we are stuck with a bunch of middle of the road type players.
“If you want the rainbow you gotta put up with rain” Dolly Parton