Changes

This unofficial St Kilda Saints fan forum is for people of all ages to chat Saints Footy and all posts must be respectful.

Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators

User avatar
Johnny Member
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 4157
Joined: Thu 05 Oct 2006 12:27pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Changes

Post: # 1661589Post Johnny Member »

Bluthy wrote:
This is the Scheinder arguement and I don't think it holds much water. Weren't Lonie, Templeton and Sincs meant to benefit huge from pumping games into a 33 yo.? Not sure thats turned out the case.
Maybe they did? Maybe they're actually ordinary footballers with limitations and we got more out of them with Schneider being around the place? No one else picked up Templeton.
Bluthy wrote: We've got tonnes of experience - Roo, Joey, Gilbo, Armo, Geary, Brown. Then we've got a big batch in the 50-100 game mark now.
Who are the big batch of 100-150 game players??
Bluthy wrote: Our Baby saints grew up to be great footballers getting games pumped into them together as young kids.
??

Which baby Saints are you talking about? The top 10 draft picks? X Clarke? Maguire? Kosi??
Bluthy wrote: I think we needed more time at the bottom and that would have been achieved by playing more young players together which helps their bonding. Our old pants backline last year was ridiculous. I would be using this year as much more blooding of youth and having a lower ladder position to get another top pick.
I agree we created a false economy last year by finishing 9th. But I think you're contradicting yourself a bit.

You seem to be arguing that we have an abundance of talent in the 2s that are highly skilled and exciting. But then you state that we needed another year down the bottom to get better players into the club?

The Currans, Templetons, Saunders' thast you were screaming out for to get games as they were highly skilled etc. etc. are gone, and no one else wanted them. Why? Because they were no good. They weren't highly skilled, exciting young kids that should be getting games pumped into them.

They were ordinary footballers with limitations.

The guys that you now want to get picked, are the same. Slightly better, but not much. There are even some in the team that aren't really up to it!


I just don't see this exciting, highly skilled talent at Sandy that you keep saying should be playing. Who are they?

Lonie can't nail a set shot from 30m out and only touches the ball about half a dozen times each week. He's been picked. And has failed.

The ones that actually do tick some of the boxes you talk about - are actually playing.





Bluthy wrote:Its also the type of young players you are getting games into. I would be trying my arm on the good kicking, creative youth than some of the money ball types like Weller, Savage etc.
As per above. Who are these guys? Where are they?


Bluthy wrote:But they don't suit Richo's pressure game plan as much. So Richo's footy style will dictate who gets played obviously. That is my big concern - I'm not a huge fan of Richo's swarm style. It worked yesterday and against Brissy - but only just. The good teams I worry will brush off our swarm with their skill. Lets see.

It's the chicken and the egg scenario. I agree with you that we play a low skilled, low 'precise' brand of footy and pretty much hang our hat on overwhelming the opposition physically.

But is that out of necessity? Are we trying to play that way? Or are trying to execute differently, but simply don't have the skill to do it?

I don't know.


I agree though, if we are only about pressure and think we can win a flag by doing that each week - we're dreaming. We're dreaming because the really good teams bring that same level of pressure and intensity every week. And, on top of that they are highly skilled.

You need both, and we only have the former.

But is that by choice?


I shudder to think what teams would do to us if we backed off with our pressure and attempted to slice teams up with precise kicking and clean ball use. We'd get smacked by 100 points every week, simply because we don't have the cattle to actually do it.


User avatar
skeptic
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 16407
Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 7:10pm
Has thanked: 3394 times
Been thanked: 2655 times

Re: Changes

Post: # 1661594Post skeptic »

Like I said in another thread, there's no disputing Armo's top 18 and a walk up start... but Tony reported that he had been touch and go all week.

I just feel like he's too precious/vital a player to risk when we've got a plethora of similar types in the team already and a few others mids itching to get a game.

If Armo had to miss one more game (against the Pies) to be fully fit to take on Geelong and we got a game into say a Koby Stevens, or Sinclair, or Minch... I'd have taken that deal every day of the week.

We certainly need him more vs Geelong then we did for the Pies


User avatar
Linton Lodger
SS Hall of Fame
Posts: 2467
Joined: Mon 18 Aug 2014 2:07pm
Has thanked: 86 times
Been thanked: 256 times

Re: Changes

Post: # 1661596Post Linton Lodger »

Wayne42 wrote:
bigred wrote:Hickey got absolutely pantsed today.
Not just today, maybe i'm wrong, but, i think he's been pantsed 4 out of 4..

I thought he was an improving ruckman, he is shite at the ruck contest. WTF are we doing with ruckmen, do we have one that can win a ruck contest, can we win a center clearance now and then.. :roll: :roll:
No, he dominated against West Coast and had a really good dual with Martin last week. He lost the dual yesterday, but fought back and improved as the game went on.


To the top
SS Life Member
Posts: 3266
Joined: Fri 16 Mar 2007 4:05pm
Been thanked: 390 times

Re: Changes

Post: # 1661600Post To the top »

On the Bluthy Chess Board we:-

1) Drop Riewoldt because he is on the wrong side of 30 and play Battle for experience.
2) Drop Montagna because he is on the wrong side of 30 and play Minchington because Minchington is an established Star AFL mid-fielder
3) Drop Armitage because he has played over 150 games and play Sinclair (ditto for Minchington)
4) Drop Gilbert because he is on the wrong side of 30 and play Rice for experience
5) Drop Brown because he is an experienced player and play Templeton at full back for experience and because Templeton is the perfect footballer

And, sorry, but you NEVER go onto a field of play not expecting to WIN.

So you ALWAYS select your BEST side.


To the top
SS Life Member
Posts: 3266
Joined: Fri 16 Mar 2007 4:05pm
Been thanked: 390 times

Re: Changes

Post: # 1661609Post To the top »

Just to add, a Sandringham side including 17 AFL Listed players only just fell in against Essendon by 7 points.

So, if they are so good and so close to AFL Stardom, how come such a close result?

Yes, there are players such as McCartin, Goddard and Freeman who were high or higher First Round Draft Picks and Stevens recruited so have expectation of AFL careers - but the remainder have been around the traps for a few years (including when we could not win a game) plus we have 18 year olds and a few from Overseas still learning the game.

The real worth of Sandringham is the progress of just 4 players (McCartin, Freeman, Goddard and Stevens) then anyone else continually performing when someone at AFL level is continually under performing.


mullet
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 5109
Joined: Wed 04 Aug 2004 3:18pm
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Re: Changes

Post: # 1661653Post mullet »

Hmmmm out for Cats maybe P Dangerfield just copped a roughy knee to back


User avatar
WellardSaint
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 7863
Joined: Sat 26 May 2012 11:25am
Location: Perth- the best weather in Oz, but the worst rednecks.
Has thanked: 1681 times
Been thanked: 781 times

Re: Changes

Post: # 1661657Post WellardSaint »

To the top wrote:Just to add, a Sandringham side including 17 AFL Listed players only just fell in against Essendon by 7 points.

So, if they are so good and so close to AFL Stardom, how come such a close result?

Yes, there are players such as McCartin, Goddard and Freeman who were high or higher First Round Draft Picks and Stevens recruited so have expectation of AFL careers - but the remainder have been around the traps for a few years (including when we could not win a game) plus we have 18 year olds and a few from Overseas still learning the game.

The real worth of Sandringham is the progress of just 4 players (McCartin, Freeman, Goddard and Stevens) then anyone else continually performing when someone at AFL level is continually under performing.
Wow. That's the most insightful and relevant post on this board this year.

Folks have been pleading for these guys to get a shot- Sinclair, Meatball, Wright, Rice, D-Mack, Koby (I want him in seniors too)
but, as you say, why can't they monster another VFL side?
Here in Perth, Peel in the WAFL was stacked with Dockers a coupla weeks ago, and they monstered their enemy.

I would expect that so early in the season, VFL Zebs would be screaming and banging the door down, before our best 22 can be settled.
A strong VFL team should point to great depth.


A real Sainter will pledge allegiance to the ❤🤍🖤 and despise the Pies, the Blues, and the Injectors.
Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
CURLY
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 9240
Joined: Fri 16 Feb 2007 3:24pm
Location: WARBURTON
Has thanked: 129 times
Been thanked: 1162 times

Re: Changes

Post: # 1661658Post CURLY »

WellardSaint wrote:
To the top wrote:Just to add, a Sandringham side including 17 AFL Listed players only just fell in against Essendon by 7 points.

So, if they are so good and so close to AFL Stardom, how come such a close result?

Yes, there are players such as McCartin, Goddard and Freeman who were high or higher First Round Draft Picks and Stevens recruited so have expectation of AFL careers - but the remainder have been around the traps for a few years (including when we could not win a game) plus we have 18 year olds and a few from Overseas still learning the game.

The real worth of Sandringham is the progress of just 4 players (McCartin, Freeman, Goddard and Stevens) then anyone else continually performing when someone at AFL level is continually under performing.
Wow. That's the most insightful and relevant post on this board this year.

Folks have been pleading for these guys to get a shot- Sinclair, Meatball, Wright, Rice, D-Mack, Koby (I want him in seniors too)
but, as you say, why can't they monster another VFL side?
Here in Perth, Peel in the WAFL was stacked with Dockers a coupla weeks ago, and they monstered their enemy.

I would expect that so early in the season, VFL Zebs would be screaming and banging the door down, before our best 22 can be settled.
A strong VFL team should point to great depth.
Essendons VFL had no AFL listed players which is surprising.


NO IFS OR BUTS HARVS IS KING OF THE AFL
User avatar
kosifantutti
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 8568
Joined: Fri 21 Jan 2005 9:06am
Location: Back in town
Has thanked: 524 times
Been thanked: 1522 times

Re: Changes

Post: # 1661662Post kosifantutti »

BigMart wrote:Bulldogs always drop players, after wins

Let's them know they are never perfect and have room to improve, they never dwell on the last win.

It also keeps them all hungry!
Everyone does everything better than us.

Who did they drop after winning this year?

How many changes did they make for the Grand Final?


Macquarie Dictionary Word of the Year for 2023 "Kosi Lives"
User avatar
kosifantutti
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 8568
Joined: Fri 21 Jan 2005 9:06am
Location: Back in town
Has thanked: 524 times
Been thanked: 1522 times

Re: Changes

Post: # 1661665Post kosifantutti »

CURLY wrote:
WellardSaint wrote:
To the top wrote:Just to add, a Sandringham side including 17 AFL Listed players only just fell in against Essendon by 7 points.

So, if they are so good and so close to AFL Stardom, how come such a close result?

Yes, there are players such as McCartin, Goddard and Freeman who were high or higher First Round Draft Picks and Stevens recruited so have expectation of AFL careers - but the remainder have been around the traps for a few years (including when we could not win a game) plus we have 18 year olds and a few from Overseas still learning the game.

The real worth of Sandringham is the progress of just 4 players (McCartin, Freeman, Goddard and Stevens) then anyone else continually performing when someone at AFL level is continually under performing.
Wow. That's the most insightful and relevant post on this board this year.

Folks have been pleading for these guys to get a shot- Sinclair, Meatball, Wright, Rice, D-Mack, Koby (I want him in seniors too)
but, as you say, why can't they monster another VFL side?
Here in Perth, Peel in the WAFL was stacked with Dockers a coupla weeks ago, and they monstered their enemy.

I would expect that so early in the season, VFL Zebs would be screaming and banging the door down, before our best 22 can be settled.
A strong VFL team should point to great depth.
Essendons VFL had no AFL listed players which is surprising.
Also completely wrong.


http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/2017- ... andringham


Macquarie Dictionary Word of the Year for 2023 "Kosi Lives"
CURLY
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 9240
Joined: Fri 16 Feb 2007 3:24pm
Location: WARBURTON
Has thanked: 129 times
Been thanked: 1162 times

Re: Changes

Post: # 1661681Post CURLY »

kosifantutti wrote:
CURLY wrote:
WellardSaint wrote:
To the top wrote:Just to add, a Sandringham side including 17 AFL Listed players only just fell in against Essendon by 7 points.

So, if they are so good and so close to AFL Stardom, how come such a close result?

Yes, there are players such as McCartin, Goddard and Freeman who were high or higher First Round Draft Picks and Stevens recruited so have expectation of AFL careers - but the remainder have been around the traps for a few years (including when we could not win a game) plus we have 18 year olds and a few from Overseas still learning the game.

The real worth of Sandringham is the progress of just 4 players (McCartin, Freeman, Goddard and Stevens) then anyone else continually performing when someone at AFL level is continually under performing.
Wow. That's the most insightful and relevant post on this board this year.

Folks have been pleading for these guys to get a shot- Sinclair, Meatball, Wright, Rice, D-Mack, Koby (I want him in seniors too)
but, as you say, why can't they monster another VFL side?
Here in Perth, Peel in the WAFL was stacked with Dockers a coupla weeks ago, and they monstered their enemy.

I would expect that so early in the season, VFL Zebs would be screaming and banging the door down, before our best 22 can be settled.
A strong VFL team should point to great depth.
Essendons VFL had no AFL listed players which is surprising.
Also completely wrong.


http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/2017- ... andringham
Sorry Kosi you obviously missed sarcasm.


NO IFS OR BUTS HARVS IS KING OF THE AFL
User avatar
dragit
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 13047
Joined: Tue 29 Jun 2010 11:56am
Has thanked: 605 times
Been thanked: 315 times

Re: Changes

Post: # 1661756Post dragit »

WellardSaint wrote:
To the top wrote:Just to add, a Sandringham side including 17 AFL Listed players only just fell in against Essendon by 7 points.

So, if they are so good and so close to AFL Stardom, how come such a close result?

Yes, there are players such as McCartin, Goddard and Freeman who were high or higher First Round Draft Picks and Stevens recruited so have expectation of AFL careers - but the remainder have been around the traps for a few years (including when we could not win a game) plus we have 18 year olds and a few from Overseas still learning the game.

The real worth of Sandringham is the progress of just 4 players (McCartin, Freeman, Goddard and Stevens) then anyone else continually performing when someone at AFL level is continually under performing.
Wow. That's the most insightful and relevant post on this board this year.

Folks have been pleading for these guys to get a shot- Sinclair, Meatball, Wright, Rice, D-Mack, Koby (I want him in seniors too)
but, as you say, why can't they monster another VFL side?
Here in Perth, Peel in the WAFL was stacked with Dockers a coupla weeks ago, and they monstered their enemy.

I would expect that so early in the season, VFL Zebs would be screaming and banging the door down, before our best 22 can be settled.
A strong VFL team should point to great depth.
The <<<MOD EDIT >>> leading <<< MOD EDIT>>>.


User avatar
Con Gorozidis
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 23532
Joined: Thu 19 Jun 2008 4:04pm
Has thanked: 100 times
Been thanked: 78 times

Re: Changes

Post: # 1661758Post Con Gorozidis »

To the top wrote:On the Bluthy Chess Board we:-

1) Drop Riewoldt because he is on the wrong side of 30 and play Battle for experience.
2) Drop Montagna because he is on the wrong side of 30 and play Minchington because Minchington is an established Star AFL mid-fielder
3) Drop Armitage because he has played over 150 games and play Sinclair (ditto for Minchington)
4) Drop Gilbert because he is on the wrong side of 30 and play Rice for experience
5) Drop Brown because he is an experienced player and play Templeton at full back for experience and because Templeton is the perfect footballer

And, sorry, but you NEVER go onto a field of play not expecting to WIN.

So you ALWAYS select your BEST side.
How about we keep Roo, Brown and Joey because they are good and drop Armo because he is now s***?


User avatar
kosifantutti
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 8568
Joined: Fri 21 Jan 2005 9:06am
Location: Back in town
Has thanked: 524 times
Been thanked: 1522 times

Re: Changes

Post: # 1661779Post kosifantutti »

CURLY wrote:
kosifantutti wrote:
CURLY wrote:
WellardSaint wrote:
To the top wrote:Just to add, a Sandringham side including 17 AFL Listed players only just fell in against Essendon by 7 points.

So, if they are so good and so close to AFL Stardom, how come such a close result?

Yes, there are players such as McCartin, Goddard and Freeman who were high or higher First Round Draft Picks and Stevens recruited so have expectation of AFL careers - but the remainder have been around the traps for a few years (including when we could not win a game) plus we have 18 year olds and a few from Overseas still learning the game.

The real worth of Sandringham is the progress of just 4 players (McCartin, Freeman, Goddard and Stevens) then anyone else continually performing when someone at AFL level is continually under performing.
Wow. That's the most insightful and relevant post on this board this year.

Folks have been pleading for these guys to get a shot- Sinclair, Meatball, Wright, Rice, D-Mack, Koby (I want him in seniors too)
but, as you say, why can't they monster another VFL side?
Here in Perth, Peel in the WAFL was stacked with Dockers a coupla weeks ago, and they monstered their enemy.

I would expect that so early in the season, VFL Zebs would be screaming and banging the door down, before our best 22 can be settled.
A strong VFL team should point to great depth.
Essendons VFL had no AFL listed players which is surprising.
Also completely wrong.


http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/2017- ... andringham
Sorry Kosi you obviously missed sarcasm.
My apologies.


Macquarie Dictionary Word of the Year for 2023 "Kosi Lives"
User avatar
Dave McNamara
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 5709
Joined: Wed 21 Sep 2011 2:44pm
Location: Slotting another one from 94.5m out. Opposition flood? Bring it on...! Keep the faith Saintas!
Has thanked: 80 times
Been thanked: 74 times

Re: Changes

Post: # 1661826Post Dave McNamara »

saynta wrote:
tony74 wrote: No.1. You play an " underdone, injured trusty old player instead of giving a game to a young mid "when you know he will do the job better
No.2. You don't wim premierships in April
No. 3 Take the win, bank the 4 points and move on.
With you on that one tony74
What about on numbers 2 and 3? :wink:


It's Dave, man. Will you open up? I got the stuff with me! -------Who?
Dave, man. Open up ------------------------------------------ -----Dave???
Yeah, Dave. ---------------------------------------------------------Dave's not here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOiG1hAr ... detailpage
skeptic wrote: Tue 30 Jan 2024 8:07pmCongrats to Dave McNamara - hereby dubbed the KNOWINGEST KNOW IT ALL of Saintsational
:mrgreen:
User avatar
mightysainters
SS Hall of Fame
Posts: 1986
Joined: Tue 16 Mar 2004 2:21pm
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 52 times

Re: Changes

Post: # 1661834Post mightysainters »

Hickey, Lonie and Dunstan all need to be dropped..

Lonie clearly not up to AFL level and Dunstan is much of a muchness with Armo, Steele, Kony etc.. Would rather Koby

Hickey, nothing really needs to be said.. He's been ordinary..

IN: Jack Steven, Koby and Longer


CURLY
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 9240
Joined: Fri 16 Feb 2007 3:24pm
Location: WARBURTON
Has thanked: 129 times
Been thanked: 1162 times

Re: Changes

Post: # 1661905Post CURLY »

mightysainters wrote:Hickey, Lonie and Dunstan all need to be dropped..

Lonie clearly not up to AFL level and Dunstan is much of a muchness with Armo, Steele, Kony etc.. Would rather Koby

Hickey, nothing really needs to be said.. He's been ordinary..

IN: Jack Steven, Koby and Longer
Hickey took a couple of big contested grabs in the back half on Sunday.


NO IFS OR BUTS HARVS IS KING OF THE AFL
Saint wagga
Club Player
Posts: 1081
Joined: Sat 27 Apr 2013 7:44pm
Been thanked: 52 times

Re: Changes

Post: # 1661912Post Saint wagga »

Only 1 change for mine...jack Steven in for 1 mid...take your pick, he's our best mid so he can replace anyone. If Armo is injured straight swap. Otherwise leave the side to keep gelling. Everyone has at least been 'ok' in the last 3 weeks on average except paddy and he got dropped!

If they want paddy to come in for structure, probably long goes out and bides his time. He looks exciting though! That's my two bobs


longtimesaint
Club Player
Posts: 1855
Joined: Thu 01 May 2008 6:30pm
Location: Mentone
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 263 times

Re: Changes

Post: # 1661924Post longtimesaint »

CURLY wrote:
mightysainters wrote:Hickey, Lonie and Dunstan all need to be dropped..

Lonie clearly not up to AFL level and Dunstan is much of a muchness with Armo, Steele, Kony etc.. Would rather Koby

Hickey, nothing really needs to be said.. He's been ordinary..

IN: Jack Steven, Koby and Longer
Hickey took a couple of big contested grabs in the back half on Sunday.
No way Hickey or Dunstan will be dropped.
Longer not all that good in VFL and Dunstan does a lot of the in and under stuff -very important.
I think Hickey will get the better of Geelong ruck and I think we can stretch their defence.
Steven in for Lonnie or Long. (Unless Armo is sore)


One year will be our year
To the top
SS Life Member
Posts: 3266
Joined: Fri 16 Mar 2007 4:05pm
Been thanked: 390 times

Re: Changes

Post: # 1661947Post To the top »

I actually thought that all players contributed to some degree or another last Sunday - which was pleasing because it builds a platform

Hickey put in some good ground level contests and took some very important marks under pressure - probably saved the game for us in the end

Dunstan put his body exactly where it needed to be, taking the hits and doing the hard yards blocking in the contest

But, all players being available Steven as our premier player needs to come in

So someone goes out

Plus there is structure meaning McCartin is right in the mix

So a small forward and last in, first out may be the criteria

The game is at Docklands which is a fast surface


User avatar
Impatient Sainter
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 4082
Joined: Tue 05 Apr 2016 3:30pm
Has thanked: 2620 times
Been thanked: 1076 times

Re: Changes

Post: # 1661956Post Impatient Sainter »

Out:

Dunstan & Lonie

In:

Steven & Stevens


freely
SS Hall of Fame
Posts: 2024
Joined: Fri 07 Jun 2013 1:03pm
Has thanked: 208 times
Been thanked: 334 times

Re: Changes

Post: # 1662095Post freely »

Out: Lonie and Armo (if inj)
In: Paddy and Steven


User avatar
robsaint
Club Player
Posts: 207
Joined: Thu 11 Mar 2004 1:41pm
Location: the cage
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Changes

Post: # 1662177Post robsaint »

my Guess is
Jack Steven for the Injured Armo
Koby Stevens for Lonie

If they drop Long they may bring in Minchington


Vazelos
Club Player
Posts: 1261
Joined: Sun 12 Sep 2010 1:17am
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 317 times

Re: Changes

Post: # 1662188Post Vazelos »

Jack Stevens will come in for Armitage I feel.
Long will stay in although Minchington is busting down the door.
Lonie plays a poor game and he is in trouble.
Where do you fit Koby Stevens?


BigMart
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 13622
Joined: Sat 22 Mar 2008 6:06pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Changes

Post: # 1662224Post BigMart »

In and under stuff?

What, getting the ball??

In an under... we have 6 inside mids that are supposed to be 'in and under' (supporters term)
The most important thing they do is win at stoppage

We got smashed at stoppage

Luke got 11 touches... the lowest by a margin of any stoppage player


Post Reply