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Scollop wrote:Accidents occur when players are ruthless and not afraid to attack the footy. I don't think it's a coincidence that severe injuries occur when your team is down and desperate acts are required.
You can't begrudge Newnes or Membrey for their efforts to get us back into the game (against Adelaide the Crows were getting away and against GCSuns we started poorly). It's a testament to the courage of guys like Newnes, Membrey and especially Paddy that they'll put their body on the line for the sake of their team.
Remember when Goose broke his leg? We were behind on the scoreboard against the Swans and most of the team were just going through the motions. I was proud of Goose's effort and admired his courage. The AFL changed the rule so that players can't dive and take out someone's feet after Rowan also broke his leg in a similar accident.
People used to hang it on Kozi when he used to crash into Rooy in the forward line but that's because he also only had eyes for the ball.
That's not the issue. The issue is these incidents seem relatively innocuous and yet Paddy is suffering concussion effects - several footy players like Lloyd have expressed their surprise at Paddy being knocked out by them. The Newnes one was a full on head clash so I can understand that (even though it wasn't high speed). But I remember being a bit surprised at the Collingwood one where he basically just went for a pack mark from the back. He didn't seem to get hit in the head or anything like that, just fell a bit heavy. Likewise GC - I don't think he copped an elbow to the head or anything like that. It was just more the force of his head being pushed around in the pack. That is the concern as that is what he will spend his career doing.
Is he more sensitive that usual to his brain being pushed around inside his skull? Does his diabetes play into that - if he's already feeling tired or woozy or getting a bit light-headed, is a crunching situation that pushes him into concussion type effects? As he gets fitter and less exhausted by the high intensity demands of AFL, will it settle down? Are we over-reacting where they are now much tighter on players expressing any sort of head knock effects? Lots of questions that will probably only be answered by time and more games.
Before someone picks me up on it, and ...
In fairness to Membrey, and what I posted earlier - I just watched the replay properly - Membrey was going for the spoil; he wasn't trying to take an impossible mark. He was doing the team thing.
The Gold Coast player was about to take a certain mark ... and Membrey came from nowhere to spoil it (so McCartin was in fact never a chance to take that mark - note to self).
McCartin was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Membrey personifies guts and effort (same as Paddy). It was great forward defense.
I agree with scollop that accidents do happen under these circumstances - when players are giving their all. So it was not dumb football by Membrey (the opposite in fact) --- just dumb spectating by yours truly.
I wonder if he is actually being concussed? Is there anything with the same symptoms of concussion? For instance would someone that had gone into shock, present the same as someone with a concussion?
Could it be that any blow to his head causes a reaction of shock?
I say this because I have always gone into shock in the event of sustaining a deep cut, ever since I was a child. Sometimes its delayed by a few hours.
The discussion on 'On The Couch' last night seemed to indicate that he is getting these knocks, then presenting as concussed, before recovering quickly.
I think Paddy is a tough hombre but just because he isn't carried off the ground on a stretcher does'nt mean he didn't cop a hefty knock. The important thing we've got to remember is that he's an investment in our future and he's still just a 19 year old kid that we need to look after.
The medical side of things will sort itself out imo, with club doctors and AFL guidelines now more stringent than ever. All the generalisations in the world and all the info you get from google searches won't answer some of the specific questions you raised. I think you said that only time will tell. I agree
Linton Lodger wrote:I wonder if he is actually being concussed? Is there anything with the same symptoms of concussion? For instance would someone that had gone into shock, present the same as someone with a concussion?
Could it be that any blow to his head causes a reaction of shock?
I say this because I have always gone into shock in the event of sustaining a deep cut, ever since I was a child. Sometimes its delayed by a few hours.
The discussion on 'On The Couch' last night seemed to indicate that he is getting these knocks, then presenting as concussed, before recovering quickly.
The GC one he did the two arms straight out to the side thing which apparently is indicative of a concussion when the brain stem triggers that response from the nervous system. It seems a good sign that he is not being stretchered off and seemingly recovers quickly. But it also plays into the idea these are not necessarily huge knocks. Whether its actually full concussion or some strange reaction with his diabetes I guess we need to see more of (but hopefully less of). But no point denying it is some concern for our no. 1 pick we've invested heavily in.
I think Paddy is a tough hombre but just because he isn't carried off the ground on a stretcher does'nt mean he didn't cop a hefty knock. The important thing we've got to remember is that he's an investment in our future and he's still just a 19 year old kid that we need to look after.
The medical side of things will sort itself out imo, with club doctors and AFL guidelines now more stringent than ever. All the generalisations in the world and all the info you get from google searches won't answer some of the specific questions you raised. I think you said that only time will tell. I agree
They just haven't seen like huge hits and the way he recovers quickly kind of reflects that, which is both good and bad. Good that he's not really getting wrecked by huge hits taking him days to recover, but is it a worry that stuff in packs that at first glance doesn't seem huge is triggering these responses that stops him passing concussion tests and sitting out games. Its both good and bad he's young. Good in that he may grow out of it, bad in that its happening to him early - will it plague his career?
Think I'll just let the doctors and medical staff make the diagnosis, reminds me of a t shirt that says I'm not a doctor but I'll take a look if you like.. Whilst we all worry about Paddy I think he is in good hands
And the president said " I did not have sex with that woman"
And our former president said " Football is like golf"
Think I'll just let the doctors and medical staff make the diagnosis, reminds me of a t shirt that says I'm not a doctor but I'll take a look if you like.. Whilst we all worry about Paddy I think he is in good hands
And the president said " I did not have sex with that woman"
And our former president said " Football is like golf"
borderbarry wrote:I would not panic, but I would give him a week off and make him wear a helmet for the rest of the year. The little bloke from Footscray wears one every week and to my knowledge has never had a concussion. Burkey wore one for may matches, Phil Narkle wore one. No disgrace. I am sure it would lift his confidence for a start.
Yeah Burkey wore a helmet after 1991. That cheap shot laid on him by the dirty dog Ablett Sr in the elimination final was why he opted for it in the end. The helmet may have sunstantially prolonged his playing career. Aside from the Ablett cheap shot, Burkey was prone to concussion because of the way he played. Even though Paddy is a forward, it seems he puts his body (and head) on the line much like Burke.
There should be no stigma attached to wearing a helmet in any sport or activity where head injuries are a danger. Last year veteran professional skateboarder, Mike Vallely, set a statement by donning a helmet every time he skates, whether it be vert or street. His reason: "I just want to protect my head"
The helmet makes perfect sense to me in 21st century game, where surfaces like Docklands and are harder, thus players fall harder. It's almost surprising more players aren't wearing them. It's crazy to think that in games like Ice Hockey and American Football they once didn't have helmets. Now it's compulsory for players to wear helmets in those sports.
A heavy knock used to result in him getting migraines. Same thing used to happen to me.
Given his propensity for getting concussed, and the evidence of future ill effects of frequent concussions in NFL players, Paddy should not play again this year, and retire at the end of it.
The individual's heath should be our primary concern.
Australia...... Live it like we stole it....... Because we did.
GrumpyOne wrote:Given his propensity for getting concussed, and the evidence of future ill effects of frequent concussions in NFL players, Paddy should not play again this year, and retire at the end of it.
The individual's heath should be our primary concern.
I think you may be concussed......!!!
The heavy metal artist formerly known as True Believer!
IF you look around the room and can't identify who the sucker is, then it's probably you!
re: concussion - on the other side of the spectrum....
Bontompelli who is in the thick of it every week said that he's never suffered one over his entire football journey (i.e., since he started playing as a junior).
Scollop wrote:Accidents occur when players are ruthless and not afraid to attack the footy. I don't think it's a coincidence that severe injuries occur when your team is down and desperate acts are required.
You can't begrudge Newnes or Membrey for their efforts to get us back into the game (against Adelaide the Crows were getting away and against GCSuns we started poorly). It's a testament to the courage of guys like Newnes, Membrey and especially Paddy that they'll put their body on the line for the sake of their team.
Remember when Goose broke his leg? We were behind on the scoreboard against the Swans and most of the team were just going through the motions. I was proud of Goose's effort and admired his courage. The AFL changed the rule so that players can't dive and take out someone's feet after Rowan also broke his leg in a similar accident.
People used to hang it on Kozi when he used to crash into Rooy in the forward line but that's because he also only had eyes for the ball.
That's not the issue. The issue is these incidents seem relatively innocuous and yet Paddy is suffering concussion effects - several footy players like Lloyd have expressed their surprise at Paddy being knocked out by them. The Newnes one was a full on head clash so I can understand that (even though it wasn't high speed). But I remember being a bit surprised at the Collingwood one where he basically just went for a pack mark from the back. He didn't seem to get hit in the head or anything like that, just fell a bit heavy. Likewise GC - I don't think he copped an elbow to the head or anything like that. It was just more the force of his head being pushed around in the pack. That is the concern as that is what he will spend his career doing.
Is he more sensitive that usual to his brain being pushed around inside his skull? Does his diabetes play into that - if he's already feeling tired or woozy or getting a bit light-headed, is a crunching situation that pushes him into concussion type effects? As he gets fitter and less exhausted by the high intensity demands of AFL, will it settle down? Are we over-reacting where they are now much tighter on players expressing any sort of head knock effects? Lots of questions that will probably only be answered by time and more games.
Relatively innocuous?? So a 189cm 85kg guy jumping full on into the back of your head is innocuous? Watch the replay again, his head snapped forward and back like he was in a car accident. And concussion isn't a blow to the head its the result of your brain slamming into the sides of your skull, this is exactly what would've happened in this case as his head first slammed forward and then back.
GrumpyOne wrote:Given his propensity for getting concussed, and the evidence of future ill effects of frequent concussions in NFL players, Paddy should not play again this year, and retire at the end of it.
The individual's heath should be our primary concern.
Was interested to hear their take on this on Marngrook - suggested Paddy really needs to change his game and show some awareness rather than just hurling himself into every contest. More or less said there's courageous - which is great - and then there's stupid...
freely wrote:Was interested to hear their take on this on Marngrook - suggested Paddy really needs to change his game and show some awareness rather than just hurling himself into every contest. More or less said there's courageous - which is great - and then there's stupid...
Sawf wrote:Living out of the country, I only watch Saints games - is there anyone else in the league that wears a helmet these days?
Yes Marshmellow Malcolm wears a helmet.
He has been hit over the head so many times by B.S. he needs protection.
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
BringBackMadDog wrote:
Relatively innocuous?? So a 189cm 85kg guy jumping full on into the back of your head is innocuous? Watch the replay again, his head snapped forward and back like he was in a car accident. And concussion isn't a blow to the head its the result of your brain slamming into the sides of your skull, this is exactly what would've happened in this case as his head first slammed forward and then back.
Richo from his presser "We are not talking about 3 massive hits, but 3 hits that have clearly dazed him". He actually passed the test to come back on against GC but they didn't risk it. But he still had that arms-out reaction that is the concern. Richo thinks will still play footy this year so they are not freaking out about it which is a good sign
