Are we playing too many oldies?

[Bluthy]

Fisher, Dempster, Montagna, Rooey, Gilbo, Geary - that's a third of first 18. I've seen this year as another "teaching" year where the oldies hand over their knowledge and experience to the youngies on and off the field. Thats obviously been a very conscious plan of the club to ensure the kids are surrounded by that valuable knowledge they can access and get confidence from.

But we are a developing team and we have players that we want to try out - Minch, Curren, Lee, Goddard. Acres, White, Rice, Mckenzie - Freeman will hopefully come on line this year. We've got some talent there that we want to get AFL games into to fast track things. Plus the oldies can almost have an inhibiting role. I think you saw it last night where Bruce and Paddy were working hard to get in the game - admittedly that weren't doing particularly well but they were trying to find their touch. But then Rooey goes forward and sucks up a lot of the forward entries with him as the target. Maybe understandable in his 300th so we'll allow that.

Maybe its a case of giving Dempster a week off and chucking Lee or Goddard in - it may be going backwards to go forwards. Give Gilbo a rest and chuck Minch in. Give Geary a week off and try McKenzie. Perhaps we need to be more aggressive transitioning our next gen team on the field and not be so reliant on the old evergreens who have wonderful ball reading and experience but lack the spark and leg speed to be damaging the other way.

[Goose is king]

I'd prefer fisher to have a rest for Goddard of he played well or at all yesterday.
And Gearys floaters off the boot really can't be tolerated this day and age

[matrix]

Fisher busted his ass last night with 11 one percenters i think.

[Dr Spaceman]

Reading SS and the general theme seems to be:

• we're playing too many oldies, and

• our youngies are no good.

May as well go back to sleep

[Wrote for Luck]

Agree wholeheartedly with your post Bluthy found myself getting pretty frustrated watching Dempster and Fisher labor as per usual last night.
Wright was a high-ish draft pick, we have to give him a run at it now.
Frankly I would rather, with intention to give players a go, afford another lot of opportunities to Delaney, for nothing but structure. Dido Membrey.
Also it comes back to the point about giving young players a decent run; maybe we were missing Acres and Templeton last night, indeed.
Dempster has struggled last two games possibly due to his collision early on against Port. Personally I think Simpkin should have been playing this role by now, but that's another story.

[longtimesaint]

It is easy to blame the defence but the ball was always down there.
The problem started in the midfield where we were thrashed out of the centre.
Simarly the forwards had no decent delivery.
I think Fisher and Dempster did ok but it was like trying to stop the tide.
Dempster played on Stringer and kept him relatively quiet considering the amount of ball they had in their forward line.

[Con Gorozidis]

It isnt so much too many oldies per se.
the trouble is all of those guys (apart from Rooey)

Fisher, Dempster, Montagna, Rooey, Gilbo, Geary

Spend most of the time in the back 6. Fisher and Dempster are very slow and Gilbo and Geary cant kick it.

If they were all guns I wouldnt care how old they were - but they arent - and our back 6 is dysfunctional. The coach is delusional if he thinks this old back 6 is going ok. It isnt. It is awful.

[Bluthy]

It is easy to blame the defence but the ball was always down there.
The problem started in the midfield where we were thrashed out of the centre.
Simarly the forwards had no decent delivery.
I think Fisher and Dempster did ok but it was like trying to stop the tide.
Dempster played on Stringer and kept him relatively quiet considering the amount of ball they had in their forward line.

I agree Dempster and Fisher played well well the ridiculous amount of ball coming in. Thats not the point. Sometimes you have to go backwards to go forward. It feels a bit too comfortable for selectors to first pencil in Fisher, Dempster, Geary, Roo, Monty, Gilbo (we'll work out exactly where they play later) and then, ok who do we fit in now. It's predictable. Geary can't work the ball out from the back. Dempster can't. Fish can but he's got his hands full on the gorrillas.

We know what we get with the oldies. Why not provide a different element to give you team a freshness and unpredictability? You put Goddard he can play on a gorrilla and free Fisher up - risk of Goddard getting towelled up. You put Lee in he can beat the press by hitting a guy on the chest with a 50 m pass - risk when the ball is on the deck and little experience. Playing Minch in the seniors could prove he is a VFL player only - or maybe he goes to another level.

If Richo wants his team to play with dare and risk maybe they need to do the same at the selection table - take a risk and look at the future. We are a development team. Wins are not the be all and end all. I understand it is a balancing act between wanting to be competitive to build a winning culture and needing to develop our young players. But are we too balanced on the conservative side because that's comfortable for selectors? They are not going to get their ass kicked by playing the oldies and having a sub-10 goal loss rather than playes more younger players and copping a 100 pt loss.

But do you have faith in the young players or not? At some point you have to have faith that they can aquit themselves out there without needing all the oldies on all lines holding their hands. It needs to become the young players team. It still very much feels like the old generations team. Next year should be a mini-revolution in this aspect by why not start transitioning a bit more this year?

[Myron Gaines]

Dempster & Fisher have lost a few yards. Fisher in particular has become a scrounger of a defender, I'm unsure how he doesn't give away more free kicks. He's always holding onto his opponent. Both in their last year.

Gilbert likely gets another go next year. Joey goes again.

Roo is on his own terms. I'm leaning towards retirement.

Geary surely plays rezzies next year? If he doesn't it shows our lack of player development.

[The_President]

Reading SS and the general theme seems to be:

• we're playing too many oldies, and

• our youngies are no good.

May as well go back to sleep

I love you Spaceman

[Goose is king]

[quote="matrix"]Fisher busted his ass last night with 11 one percenters i think.[/quote]


He is also undersized and stinks in a one-on-one. Often Giving away free kicks in panic

[Griggsy]

Fisher busted his ass last night with 11 one percenters i think.

He is also undersized and stinks in a one-on-one. Often Giving away free kicks in panic

True, but these kind of match-ups were never his thing. Trying to teach an old dog new tricks.

[Saint_J]

sadly the oldies where holding down the hatches most the game. would have hated to see it minus a few of them

[Wrote for Luck]

there have been times when I thought Geary was improving, where he looked great one on one, but that's all vanished from my mind now.

[saintbob]

What we are doing is playing too many players who play the same role!!

We've got too many half forwards types, with no pace and s*** skills.

Fisher, Roo, Montagna and Dempster simply have to play, as there is no one any better pushing them out.

[Con Gorozidis]

there have been times when I thought Geary was improving, where he looked great one on one, but that's all vanished from my mind now.

There were times when I loved him too. But I have realised he isnt going to improve and that defenders who cant kick are poison in this day and age. So much of modern day footy relies on the counter attack from half back. If that fails then you are playing with your hand tied behind your back. We cant compete with the big boys if we cant make damaging attacks from half back. The old days of the dour defender who defends well but cant kick are gone with the dodo bird.

[Jacks Back]

I remember a game back around 2009, or so, where Lyon rested all our good older players and we played the young ones who beat Hawthorn in Tassie I think (the previous year's premiers). Steven had a great game from memory.

Maybe we rest all 6 mentioned on this thread for a game and see what happens?

[elizabethr]

I remember a game back around 2009, or so, where Lyon rested all our good older players and we played the young ones who beat Hawthorn in Tassie I think (the previous year's premiers). Steven had a great game from memory.

Maybe we rest all 6 mentioned on this thread for a game and see what happens?

It was Armitage.

[Jacks Back]

I remember a game back around 2009, or so, where Lyon rested all our good older players and we played the young ones who beat Hawthorn in Tassie I think (the previous year's premiers). Steven had a great game from memory.

Maybe we rest all 6 mentioned on this thread for a game and see what happens?

It was Armitage.

You're right. And 3 Brownlow votes. There you go!

[saintsRrising]

I remember a game back around 2009, or so, where Lyon rested all our good older players and we played the young ones who beat Hawthorn in Tassie I think (the previous year's premiers). Steven had a great game from memory.

The problem with that is that you left out that the Hawks also fielded a very weal team. Not sure that our opponents will also be willing to do likewise.

[Jacks Back]

I remember a game back around 2009, or so, where Lyon rested all our good older players and we played the young ones who beat Hawthorn in Tassie I think (the previous year's premiers). Steven had a great game from memory.

The problem with that is that you left out that the Hawks also fielded a very weal team. Not sure that our opponents will also be willing to do likewise.

The memory is slipping a bit I think. Also there were a few good players still in our side going by the stat sheet...lol.

[saynta]

Fisher, Dempster, Montagna, Rooey, Gilbo, Geary - that's a third of first 18. I've seen this year as another "teaching" year where the oldies hand over their knowledge and experience to the youngies on and off the field. Thats obviously been a very conscious plan of the club to ensure the kids are surrounded by that valuable knowledge they can access and get confidence from.

But we are a developing team and we have players that we want to try out - Minch, Curren, Lee, Goddard. Acres, White, Rice, Mckenzie - Freeman will hopefully come on line this year. We've got some talent there that we want to get AFL games into to fast track things. Plus the oldies can almost have an inhibiting role. I think you saw it last night where Bruce and Paddy were working hard to get in the game - admittedly that weren't doing particularly well but they were trying to find their touch. But then Rooey goes forward and sucks up a lot of the forward entries with him as the target. Maybe understandable in his 300th so we'll allow that.

Maybe its a case of giving Dempster a week off and chucking Lee or Goddard in - it may be going backwards to go forwards. Give Gilbo a rest and chuck Minch in. Give Geary a week off and try McKenzie. Perhaps we need to be more aggressive transitioning our next gen team on the field and not be so reliant on the old evergreens who have wonderful ball reading and experience but lack the spark and leg speed to be damaging the other way.

Sensible suggestions imho.

[WellardSaint]

Geary and Gumby (I mean Gilbo) are never going to help the younger players. It's like 2 grumpy old council workers on a work crew. They bring nothing to the team in terms of quality, and the ball just comes back with interest.

[BigMart]

It'd be easier to make excuses about losing... Perhaps no experienced players and it'd be OK to lose every game?!

Are Hawthorn, Sydney, North carrying too many senior players??
Norths best on Sat had 5 players over 28

Dempster, Fisher, Riewoldt, Montagna were amongst our best

Whilst our worst were
Gresham, McCartin, Sinclair, Dunstan

[Con Gorozidis]

Geary and Gumby (I mean Gilbo) are never going to help the younger players. It's like 2 grumpy old council workers on a work crew. They bring nothing to the team in terms of quality, and the ball just comes back with interest.

Gilbo and Geary teach the kids that it is all about sucking up to the coach off the park. Once you are in his good books - who gives a s*** how you kick the bloody ball. Heck sometimes it doesnt matter if you dont touch the ball at all. It is all brushed under the carpet or ignored. All your on-field sins are simply washed away and forgiven. It is like being a catholic who is mates with the priest.