Saintsational Fan Forum - A passionate community of St Kilda Football Club fans discussing news, history, players, trade rumours, results, AFL stats and more.
saintjake wrote:- Trade Hickey/Longer for a first round pick (many teams looking for a Ruckman)
- Use the pick we receive for either Hickey or Longer for Carlisle
- Second or Third rounder for Freeman
- Pick 5 and next years second rounder (or player) for Treloar
Any realistic chance?
This will leave us very thin for ruck stocks.
If the remaining ruckman ( Hickey/Longer) is injured we only have Holmes ( very inexperienced and really only a tap ruckman) or Pierce ( even more inexperienced)
saintjake wrote:- Trade Hickey/Longer for a first round pick (many teams looking for a Ruckman)
- Use the pick we receive for either Hickey or Longer for Carlisle
- Second or Third rounder for Freeman
- Pick 5 and next years second rounder (or player) for Treloar
Any realistic chance?
This will leave us very thin for ruck stocks.
If the remaining ruckman ( Hickey/Longer) is injured we only have Holmes ( very inexperienced and really only a tap ruckman) or Pierce ( even more inexperienced)
Carlisle could always ruck at worst - genuinely think he is a better second ruck option than Bruce anyway - both in pure skill and in terms of team structure.
Can always throw a late pick at a back up ruckman.
Seems a waste to have Hickey and Longer when both seemingly can't play in the same team.
If the bombers were doing well on their player relationships Crameri would still be there and Carlisle would feel too much of a tug to remain I suspect.
The bombers have a sweeter deal @ the Dome than us, they are loaded to the gills with portfolio funds and they no doubt love the reputation they have of playing it hard on dealing with other clubs. Of coarse they would ask for the most we can offer (in this case Pick 5) but Carlisle wants out. That is essendons' problem now. I'd love to see the Saints dare to snare him in the PSD somehow.
Did they not do well for themselves by luring B.J. over? Perhaps not that much recognition/ appreciation in bomber - land for that acquisition. Have the deal done on our terms and avoid essendon trades in the future as a rule of thumb.
I'm more than happy for the Saints recruiting team to dig the heels in for as long as it takes on this one.
It is important to note that Jake Carlisle coming to St Kilda is a most significant reversal of a trend that goes back many years.
In the past 40 years some of St Kilda's best players have been taken in their prime by other teams, to name a few:
Ian Stewart
Carl Ditterich
Russell Greene
Val Perovic
Garry Sidebottom
Tony Lockett
Dean Rice
Peter Everitt
Wakelin Twins
Barry Hall
Luke ball
Brendon Goddard
Nick Dal Santo
Brent Guerra
Ben McEvoy
Many of those on this list went on to play in premiership teams.
I may have missed some, but the point is that never at any time have St Kilda managed to snare a gun player from another team in return - and forget Jezza because he was at the end of his career. Ditto Rex Hunt. Luke Penney, you say - a fair average player, but hardly elite.....
So I am really pleased that the Saints have managed to bring a genuine gun across, even more so when you consider that St Kilda have not had a specialist elite Full Back since Danny Frawley was carried off bawling his eyes out in 1995. And, no, I haven't forgotten Maxie, but honest toiler that he was for so many years, Hudghton lacked the height and size to compete with the best Full Forwards of his era.
We should also take into account that in each of the 3 Grand Finals (1997/2009/2010) St Kilda's biggest defect was at Full Back, and arguably cost us the game.
If all else fails and Carlisle costs the Saints pick 5, then so be it - players of the caliber of Jake Carlisle are scarcer then hen's teeth - just consider St Kilda's spine in 2017:
Carlisle - Goddard - Dunstan - McCartin - Bruce
I'm convinced that in this case a "known known" for pick 5 is infinitely better than an "unproven unknown", and if you want to see this in perspective think of Jack Sinclair who proved to be a definite AFL standard player on the rookie list!
So get excited Saints fans - things are looking very rosy!!!
"I am an old man and have known a great many troubles, but most of them never happened."
"Life would be infinitely happier if we could only be born at the age of eighty and gradually approach eighteen."
Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) American writer and humorist
saintjake wrote:- Trade Hickey/Longer for a first round pick (many teams looking for a Ruckman)
- Use the pick we receive for either Hickey or Longer for Carlisle
- Second or Third rounder for Freeman
- Pick 5 and next years second rounder (or player) for Treloar
Any realistic chance?
No other team in their right mind would trade a first round pick for one of those two ruckmen so there goes that theory.
We also need both ruckmen (or pick one up later in the draft?) as Holmes is not up to it and never will be and, at the moment, neither is Pierce.
As ex-president Peter Summers said:
“If we are going to be a contender, we may as well plan to win the bloody thing.”
Sanctorum wrote:It is important to note that Jake Carlisle coming to St Kilda is a most significant reversal of a trend that goes back many years.
In the past 40 years some of St Kilda's best players have been taken in their prime by other teams, to name a few:
Many of those on this list went on to play in premiership teams.
I may have missed some, but the point is that never at any time have St Kilda managed to snare a gun player from another team in return - and forget Jezza because he was at the end of his career. Ditto Rex Hunt. Luke Penney, you say - a fair average player, but hardly elite.....
!
Sanctorum wrote:It is important to note that Jake Carlisle coming to St Kilda is a most significant reversal of a trend that goes back many years.
In the past 40 years some of St Kilda's best players have been taken in their prime by other teams, to name a few:
Many of those on this list went on to play in premiership teams.
I may have missed some, but the point is that never at any time have St Kilda managed to snare a gun player from another team in return - and forget Jezza because he was at the end of his career. Ditto Rex Hunt. Luke Penney, you say - a fair average player, but hardly elite.....
!
Hamil? GTrain? Gardiner?
Foschini, Schneider, Penny, Ray
i am Melbourne Skies - sometimes Blue Skies, Grey Skies, even Partly Cloudy Skies.
saintjake wrote:- Trade Hickey/Longer for a first round pick (many teams looking for a Ruckman)
- Use the pick we receive for either Hickey or Longer for Carlisle
- Second or Third rounder for Freeman
- Pick 5 and next years second rounder (or player) for Treloar
Any realistic chance?
This will leave us very thin for ruck stocks.
If the remaining ruckman ( Hickey/Longer) is injured we only have Holmes ( very inexperienced and really only a tap ruckman) or Pierce ( even more inexperienced)
Forget Pierce and Holmes - we need two ruckmen and we have them. There is also the not inconsiderable fact that we have put two years into both Longer and Hickey. Holmes is a novelty act, and Pierce is too light.
Carlisle and Freeman will come to us and we will lose pick 5. We may pick up another second round draft pick as part of the deal. Personally I am not sold on the Carlisle deal, and Freeman needs to get his body right - he seems to have hamstring problems - but if Freeman has pace he is worth a punt, and Carlisle's only real concern is the WADA investigation, which is not inconsiderable either.
This trade period may turn out to be a game changer in the long term, so let's hope that Bains has his house in order.
Sanctorum wrote:It is important to note that Jake Carlisle coming to St Kilda is a most significant reversal of a trend that goes back many years.
In the past 40 years some of St Kilda's best players have been taken in their prime by other teams, to name a few:
Many of those on this list went on to play in premiership teams.
I may have missed some, but the point is that never at any time have St Kilda managed to snare a gun player from another team in return - and forget Jezza because he was at the end of his career. Ditto Rex Hunt. Luke Penney, you say - a fair average player, but hardly elite.....
!
Sanctorum wrote:It is important to note that Jake Carlisle coming to St Kilda is a most significant reversal of a trend that goes back many years.
In the past 40 years some of St Kilda's best players have been taken in their prime by other teams, to name a few:
Many of those on this list went on to play in premiership teams.
I may have missed some, but the point is that never at any time have St Kilda managed to snare a gun player from another team in return - and forget Jezza because he was at the end of his career. Ditto Rex Hunt. Luke Penney, you say - a fair average player, but hardly elite.....
!
Hamil? GTrain? Gardiner?
Foschini, Schneider, Penny, Ray
Billy Barrott
Played two games for us while Stewie went on to win his third brownlow.
Wayne42 wrote:I spoke to Trealor yesterday, he trains at the same gym as i do.He is adamant that Collingwood is the club he wants to go to.
What gym is that so I can stay away ?
How do you decontaminate yourself after talking to a future Collingwood scum ?
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA 50:08
Pick 5 for Carlisle is a pipe dream - he is simply not worth that IMO hes mid teens at best
That said, he is OOC and there is the PSD.
Lets be realistic - Carlton cant affordhim at our price or they would have
Whens the last time a player said he wanted to go to 'x' entered PSD and been snapped up by anotjer club not his choice?
Carlisle simply puts 1.5 on his head for 1 year - we have that space Carlscum don't
Essendon have nothing here - no power, no say f'all. Dodo is going to lose his job so he is stirring up docile media support
We must stand firm - pick could net us MATHIESON who will be a midfield general and that's what we need
Forget 5 for Carlisle.
We need to hold our nerve on this. If Essendon or Collingwood were in our position they would hold firm on a second rounder. Essendon are banking on St Kilda being desperate and caving (as we inevitably would have done when managed by muppets in years gone by). Two early second rounders for an out of contract player who has only finished in the top ten of the B&F once is fair. Just hold firm until the final minutes of trade week and it should happen. My fear is that we panic because we need to sort Carlisle out first before Freeman. We need pick 5 more than JC or Freeman so need to hold our nerve against the big club bullies and their media cheer squads.
In my eyes it seems fairly simple we offer our second round pick for Carlisle or a later pick and a player who we really don't rate long term eg Ray. If they continue to push for pick 5 we front load his contract and get him in the PSD. (the second option work for me, however we do not want to burn our bridges for the future).
Freeman is a bit more confusing being a first round player who hasn't played a game. I think maybe a third round, however may be a little off the money.
