Hickey or McEvoy

[Toy Saint]

We're certainly not much worse off with Hickey, but when you consider we have Longer, Dunstan and Savage, I'd say we're a mile in front.

[whiskers3614]

As Crosby Stills Nash & Young sang:
Love the one you're with!

[desertsaint]

Never thought anything of mcevoy as a ruckman. Then one year I thought, hold on...it soon passed.
Jason Blake was a better ruckman than mcevoy will ever be.

[Griggsy]

Never liked mcevoys tap work, even in his game against the cats the other day he did the same thing he did with us all the time. He basically had a free tap and no one went up with him and tapped it straight down to the ground with no hawk there to be seen. That play I think ended with a cat getting it then tackled for another ballup. Don't know if it was his fault or the ground players but it was frustrating.

[BigMart]

Probably not the right person to respond as most know my view

If we are judging on ruckwork... Hickey has been put to the sword in every game except for the last one?
Which is interesting because the last game he was poor
However tap work is how many concluded Hickey ahead

Luckily for Tom tap work is massively overstated and not how a Ruckman should be judged... Unless they are dominant like Sandy or Mummy...

Influencing the contest by presenting as a outlet, filling a hole, taking contested marks (gold) and making opponent defend. The should've strong in the contest and at minimum not get out marked

I think Ben is just a better footballer
Better mark, better hands, better kick... He has a sound skill base and his reliable... Not elite in any area
Tom has very raw skills
Awkward kicking action (as a lot of 200+ players do) fumbles a lot and a bit inconsistent skill wise

On the mobility
A Ruckman is never going to be Jack Steven... Nor do they have to be... Sandilands, Mumford, Jacobs, Alaric, Giles are all cumbersome ... But aerobic is important

McEvoy was a top 5 last year in running tests and obliterated Tom.

I think Ben is actually a stronger runner, Tom is more agile

My main criticism of Tom is his lack of size, strength and physical presence
He's like an 'outside' ruckman

[QuestionOfAccuracy]

Finey on SEN made a good point on McEvoy the other night. He said McEvoy's strength is taking marks in the back 50 to help the defence, but the Hawks don't have a need for that. Perhaps that's why some Hawks fans are a bit miffed by his form right now.

If I had to select one of them to play for my life this weekend it would be McEvoy, but this time next year Hickey may be in front.

[BigMart]

His form in the one game might be due to just returning from a calf after 3 weeks?

Someone should have asked why Hawthorns undersized and undermanned defence couldn't be helped by support in the air. Pr in fact any defence?

Funny how the Hawthorn defenders were exposed so badly last week in the last quarter.

The trade will almost certainly work out to our benefit
But that doesn't mean Ben is a bad footballer... He'll play 200+ games probably be a captain and premiership player?

Don't know why people try to argue otherwise

Is it to make them feel as though we had a victory and got one over Hawthorn

They would be rapt with Ben
They probably want Hartung
They probably didn't want Savage

Sydney missed out on 250 games of Nick Dal
But would have been happy with Barry Hall

[remboy]

As I've said before both clubs would be happy with the trade. I think we both got what we wanted.
I don't there's an easy way to compare ruckmen. Even using hitouts ( or hitouts to advantage) is too simplistic as ruckmen do more than that. One game that made me take notice was late last year when both Hickey and McEvoy were playing. McEvoy started in the ruck and Hickey was number 2.
I've got no idea what the hitout stats were but when McEvoy went off for a rest we started to win a lot more centre clearances. I know it's only one game but right there I was pretty comfortable with Hickey.
Agree that he doesn't have Macs strength yet, but he's also younger. Give him a couple of years and hopefully that shouldn't be an issue.

[joffaboy]

BigMart, if anybody is arguing McEvoy is a bad footballer, they aren't watching closely enough.

Conversely if anybody is arguing Hickey is no good, they aren't watching closely enough.

I still think McEvoy is the better ruckman ATM, but also think Hickey is showing great potential, and is getting better every game.

Put it this way, if we could have Savage Acres and Dunstan i the team with a choice of Hickey or McEvoy as ruck right now and at this moment, I would choose Mac without hesitation.

The interesting part will be in a season or two if my decision will be the same. I am suggesting probably not.

[joffaboy]

I dont think we got one over Hawthorn, but I also dont think anybody was laughing at the trade as you suggested at the time.

If they were they were very ignorant of what Pelchan was trying to achieve and I dont know if they are laughing now.

I reckon the Saints are wrapt they got Dunstan
Reckon they are happy they got Savage (good enough to be in the starting 18 today)
Reckon they are wrapt they got Acres
Reckon they would be wrapt in the development of Hickey, with Longer and Pearce as depth development.

So initially why cant it be a win win for both the Saints and Hawthorn?

McEvoy isn't s.hit, but some people think players are automatically no good once they leave the Saints.

Remember Luke Ball suddenly becoming a hack when he left? Goddard could easily be replaced by Sipposs? Dal wont be missed?

All fabricated claptrap. They are still good players, bj B&F at the Injectors, Dal finding his feet at North, Ball still an integral part of the filth.

But with players leaving we look at what we got for them, and our most current trading/draft period seems to have been our best since maybe the drafting of Riewoldt back in 2000

[BigMart]

Joffa

I just know what I would like from a Ruckman

With a physical presence in the contest a priority....

I don't think Warnock provides that enough, Josh Fraser did isn't, Zac Clarke doesn't... Tom will need to improve in this area IMO

At 91kg with a wiry frame the fact is he is skinny... Perhaps on average 10kg Lighter than most Ruckman? Thing is ICUs adds weight, he'll lose the agility he uses to get around the contest ATM

[joffaboy]

Is he still just 91 kgs?

Seems to remember Cox not filling out until 24 or 25 and he hasn't lost mobility.

Will be interesting going forward.

And I dont know if the Warnock comparision is fair on Hickey. Hickey is much more skillful that Warnock

[Old Mate]

Longer will be better than both IMO. He reminds me of Mummy.

[dragit]

Hickey was average tonight but still ended the night with more hitouts than McEvoy has ever recorded in a game.

[saintbob]

Hickey, clearly IMHO!!!

[dragit]

You can still dream BM...

http://www.saints.com.au/player-profile/ben-mcevoy

Weird they haven't updated this page.

[dragit]

We still have dal too which is good

http://www.saints.com.au/player-profile/nick-dal-santo

[SaintPav]

So what happened to Lenny and Billings then?

Weird.

[evo]

This weeks game verses Hawthorn may answer some questions.

[thejiggingsaint]

I still rate Ben McEvoy highly. Sorry to see him go, and wish him well. A decent young man, and a good team player. He'll always be a Saint as far as I'm concerned!

[Hurricane]

My issue with Mac was always that he was way too slow and couldn't win the hitouts to save himself. Even against part time ruckman. He was always a great mark and kicked some very important goals but I always thought if we had a ruckman who could ruck properly we'd be a better team. Remains to be seen of course and we can get a decent indicator this week but i'm thrilled with Hickey as our #1 ruck

BANG BANG

[Spinner]

101 odd supercoach points this week. Yummy.

Looking to improve my ranking of 121st.



Must be a rubbish system developed by quants to rate players specifically playing AFL football.

[3rd generation saint]

Why are we having this argument? McEvoy plays for Hawthorn now, he's gone, deal with it. Hickey and Longer are our number 1 and 2 ruckman.
Only the draft and recruiting is going to change that and that doesn't happen until October.
End of story and should be end of discussion.

[stinger]

Never thought anything of mcevoy as a ruckman. Then one year I thought, hold on...it soon passed.
Jason Blake was a better ruckman than mcevoy will ever be.

certainly blake played to the best of his ability....

[desertsaint]

Never thought anything of mcevoy as a ruckman. Then one year I thought, hold on...it soon passed.
Jason Blake was a better ruckman than mcevoy will ever be.

certainly blake played to the best of his ability....

He did, every game. The guy was an inspiration.