I took banned drug: Watson

[plugger66]

Con that is very each way what you just said. Think 2 but they are gawn. You havent had an each way bet for a while.

I have gone from

90% gone 10% asada stuff up

To now

70% gone 30% asada stuff up

Note I remain 0% they are innocent in the true sense.
They cheated but I reckon they have a 30% chance of getting away with it if asada were incompetent.
I can't ignore the high levels of smugness and confidence on display last night .
Maybe I was sucked in it by it.

Is it cheating if you get permission to use a product? Im not saying that happened but surely if you think a product is close to the edge but get permission then that isnt cheating even slightly.

[joffaboy]

No other player has said they have used publicly but im guessing many have told the enquiry they have used.

So the fact is that only one AFL footballer from the Essendon Football club has publicly stated he was administered a banned drug under WADA category S0. Everything else is guesswork.

And the tour last year had about 6 riders who had told the Armstrong enquiry they systematically used drugs in the past.

Could you inform me if any of their riders admitted at the time to taking a banned substance, and if so were they stood down? How many subsequently were banned from the sport? And is cycling the most credible of sports when it comes to systematic doping and cheating?

As for your question about why isnt watson stood down. i gather you are asking me this. i have no idea why though because I have asked the same question but unlike you i think if it is that obvious that they are guilty why only stand him down. because he said it in public. Big deal.

yes it IS a big deal. He has admitted to taking a banned drug under the WADA rules. Ignorance is not a defence, and by his own mouth he has addmitted to injecting banned drugs.

It is a HUGE deal, because everything else is gueswwork on your behalf.

the others have told the main people and that is ASADA and the AFL.

So the investigation has been leaked to you? You know exactly what the others have told ASADA? Or is it just supposition? You see the issue with Jab Watson is F.A.C.T. he has admitted to taking banned drugs.

This is KNOWN. All else is supposition.

The AFL are the laughing stock of sport. Maybe but in the long run wont make one bit of difference once a final decision is made.

Why wont it make a difference? The player who has admitted to taking banned drugs is allow to compete in a competition. Why is he not stood down.

How is this not bringing the game into disrepute? Having an admitted banned drug taker playing in the competition.

This is making AFL look like it is soft on drug cheating.

Why have the AFL CEO not said a word?

Why does this admitted cheat get a free pass when someone vigourously defending a charge is made to stand down (with the encouragement of the AFL).

Why is this not a double standard?

Cant answer the last question because i dont think i have ever said i have supported the AFL in this case.

Let me put it this way. Do you support the AFL allowing a player to continue playing after he has admitted to willfully and illegally taking banned WADA drugs. Remember this is the ONLY player from Essendon to admit this in public.

You say no big deal. It is a HUGE deal. He free admitted to taking banned substances but continues to play.

You do not think it is a farce?

[Dr Spaceman]

Meanwhile, back to the survey...............



Q. 58 I previously took banned substances and continue to reap the benefits of the illegal program:

a) Lance Armstrong
a) Jobe Watson
b) The entire Essendon Football Club



Q. 59 I am currently indulging in recreational drugs and continue to post while suffering from the hallucinatory affects of same:

a) Con Gorozidis
b) plugger66
c) All of the above

[markp]

2. The bombers are a bunch of cheating scumbags BUT ASADA are so incompetent that they made an error and told the bombers aod 9604 was ok when it wasn't in which case the bombers have to get off.

If that was the case we would've heard all about it and seen the evidence by now.

They're banking on the legal 'grey areas'.

But there are none.

Warne got a year for taking a single diuretic tablet... these guys are gawn.

[mullet]

Con that is very each way what you just said. Think 2 but they are gawn. You havent had an each way bet for a while.

I have gone from

90% gone 10% asada stuff up

To now

70% gone 30% asada stuff up

Note I remain 0% they are innocent in the true sense.
They cheated but I reckon they have a 30% chance of getting away with it if asada were incompetent.
I can't ignore the high levels of smugness and confidence on display last night .
Maybe I was sucked in it by it.

Hey Con, How have ASADA stuffed up? Have I missed something. Has something been announced. I'm not trying to be a smart arse, just wondering.

I would find it hard to believe that ASADA have stuffed up. A lot of people seem to be thinking that because the ACC report said it wasnt prohibitted that EFC are in the clear. The ACC report was just a report, they may have reported incorrectly. WADA/ASADA's rules have much more pull than the ACC report.

AS Dave Culbert said this morning , has there ever been any caught athlete that said it was actually all their own fault.

I hate EFC smugness too. And I hate that they win because this somehow makes it all alright. But we all know why they are winning dont we. We all know how they can run out games better than everyone dont we. As Hird said last year when everyone was laughing at their injuries "We are expecting to see results next year and the year after".

Ask Jobe why he still isnt taking this legal substance AOD if he has done nothing wrong.

[plugger66]

No other player has said they have used publicly but im guessing many have told the enquiry they have used.

So the fact is that only one AFL footballer from the Essendon Football club has publicly stated he was administered a banned drug under WADA category S0. Everything else is guesswork.

And the tour last year had about 6 riders who had told the Armstrong enquiry they systematically used drugs in the past.

Could you inform me if any of their riders admitted at the time to taking a banned substance, and if so were they stood down? How many subsequently were banned from the sport? And is cycling the most credible of sports when it comes to systematic doping and cheating?

As for your question about why isnt watson stood down. i gather you are asking me this. i have no idea why though because I have asked the same question but unlike you i think if it is that obvious that they are guilty why only stand him down. because he said it in public. Big deal.

yes it IS a big deal. He has admitted to taking a banned drug under the WADA rules. Ignorance is not a defence, and by his own mouth he has addmitted to injecting banned drugs.

It is a HUGE deal, because everything else is gueswwork on your behalf.

the others have told the main people and that is ASADA and the AFL.

So the investigation has been leaked to you? You know exactly what the others have told ASADA? Or is it just supposition? You see the issue with Jab Watson is F.A.C.T. he has admitted to taking banned drugs.

This is KNOWN. All else is supposition.

The AFL are the laughing stock of sport. Maybe but in the long run wont make one bit of difference once a final decision is made.

Why wont it make a difference? The player who has admitted to taking banned drugs is allow to compete in a competition. Why is he not stood down.

How is this not bringing the game into disrepute? Having an admitted banned drug taker playing in the competition.

This is making AFL look like it is soft on drug cheating.

Why have the AFL CEO not said a word?

Why does this admitted cheat get a free pass when someone vigourously defending a charge is made to stand down (with the encouragement of the AFL).

Why is this not a double standard?

Cant answer the last question because i dont think i have ever said i have supported the AFL in this case.

Let me put it this way. Do you support the AFL allowing a player to continue playing after he has admitted to willfully and illegally taking banned WADA drugs. Remember this is the ONLY player from Essendon to admit this in public.

You say no big deal. It is a HUGE deal. He free admitted to taking banned substances but continues to play.

You do not think it is a farce?

I dont do quoting so I really couldnt be bothered. you win what ever you are trying to win. I answered the questions as honestly as i could. I will try and answer the one about the cyclists. They told the Armstrong enquiry before the tour that they used drus with Armstrong. they were stood down for 6 months after the tour. And I have no idea what your last comment on cycling has to do with anything. They suspend probably more people than any other sport. I suppose you had to put a rider on it because it didnt suit an agenda of yours that i dont understand. And yes Watson is the only one who admitted using. Do you live in fantasy land because i can only come to that conclusion if you dont think others told the enquiry they also used. Stand them all down or none not just watson. No idea why the AFL CEO hasnt spoken. I aint involved in the enquiry. No idea of the second point. think our club stood Milne down though. No idea about double standards as I havent heard all the evidence of either case. I dont care who plays now. Sorry if that upsets you. I may get upset after i know all the facts. No i dont think its a farce. Sorry again to upset you.

Now go ahead and do you quotes again. makes it very nice looking. Im sure you will quote that as well.

[Con Gorozidis]

Sorry mullet
There is no evidence at all of an asada stuff up.
I'm just saying that is the only reason I can think of for essendon to be so confident and smug
That's all I was trying to say.
Essendon could well be in a false sense of confidence.

[mullet]

Sorry mullet
There is no evidence at all of an asada stuff up.
I'm just saying that is the only reason I can think of for essendon to be so confident and smug
That's all I was trying to say.
Essendon could well be in a false sense of confidence.

Oh no worries, thought I may have missed something. It is hard to keep up with sometimes, bloody work gets in the way.

It certainly has raised some hot debate, not a mass one.

I am enjoying everyones comments, ideas and thoughts. There are some pretty intelligent arguments going on. Even between you and Plugger.

[Life Long Saint]

http://www.asada.gov.au/substances/supplements.html
I particularly like the paragraph that says...
"If you are an athlete, you need to be aware that you are ultimately responsible for any prohibited substance found in your body. If you use a supplement, you do so at your own risk."
Even if the club gets off lightly, the players will (and should) be suspended.

The story that I'd heard previously reported was that Dank specifically asked ASADA if AOD9604 was on the S2 list.
If they answered that accurately, the answer would have been "no".
But that doesn't mean that it is OK to take.

[matrix]

he is going to say the complete opposite of what you say
every time
he'll argue it just for the fun of it

[plugger66]

he is going to say the complete opposite of what you say
every time
he'll argue it just for the fun of it

You are intelligent. There you go the complete opposite.

[dragit]

Meanwhile, back to the survey...............



Q. 58 I previously took banned substances and continue to reap the benefits of the illegal program:

a) Lance Armstrong
a) Jobe Watson
b) The entire Essendon Football Club



Q. 59 I am currently indulging in recreational drugs and continue to post while suffering from the hallucinatory affects of same:

a) Con Gorozidis
b) plugger66
c) All of the above

C) all of the above for both quiz questions.

[SaintPav]

Darc said last night that we should wait until the investigation is over and it will be sorted and the Bombers will be ok.

In Darc I trust.

Hi Milney.

[Eastern]

The CEO of the AFL picked a good week to take holidays, didn't he? !!

[gringo]

Darc said last night that we should wait until the investigation is over and it will be sorted and the Bombers will be ok.

In Darc I trust.

Hi Milney.

Darcy is a massive flog. I almost didn't hate him after the sensible manner in which he handled the banter with Eddie where he didn't do his usual sycophant role. Then he opened his mouth again. Seven are going in to bat for the Bombers because as billion dollar investors they don't want anything to stuff up but they are going against popular opinion- very dangerous in the social media era. It's just riling the punters more.

[joffaboy]

I dont do quoting so I really couldnt be bothered.

I do and do it very well

you win what ever you are trying to win.

No winners in this P66. I am not trying to win anything, just attempting to have you see the simple facts of the case.

I answered the questions as honestly as i could.

Thanks

I will try and answer the one about the cyclists. They told the Armstrong enquiry before the tour that they used drus with Armstrong. they were stood down for 6 months after the tour.

OK thanks. Do you have any idea why cycling wouldn't stand them down before the Tour?

And I have no idea what your last comment on cycling has to do with anything. They suspend probably more people than any other sport. I suppose you had to put a rider on it because it didnt suit an agenda of yours that i dont understand

I was not trying to put a rider on it or have an agenda P66, however the fact that cycling didn't ban admitted drug users show that their credibility isn't very good. The AFL would seem now to be on a par with cycling. IMO that is a pretty sad state of affairs.

. And yes Watson is the only one who admitted using.

Thats correct - the only one on record.

Do you live in fantasy land because i can only come to that conclusion if you dont think others told the enquiry they also used.

I dont know what they have said. Maybe you are correct, but at the moment only one player has PUBLICY admitted to taking WADA banned drugs. And that is Jobe Watson.

So simply whatever the other players may or may not have said is supposition on all our parts. What Jobe Watson said is a public admission of guilt.

Stand them all down or none not just watson.

If they are dumb enough to admit it publicy, i agree. However only one has. His presumption of innocence has been negated because he has admitted to taking a banned WADA drug.

No idea why the AFL CEO hasnt spoken. I aint involved in the enquiry.

But you claim to know what the other players have said. have you a link to their testomony, or is it just supposition on your part?

No idea of the second point. think our club stood Milne down though.

Yes you are correct, the STKFC stood down Milne, but after being lent on by the AFL. That was reported at the time.

No idea about double standards as I havent heard all the evidence of either case.

One vigourously denies any wrongdoing. One publicy admits to what he is accused of. I would think this is a HUGE difference.

So why is the AFL leaning on one club when Milne deserves the presumption of innocence, but lets someone who has admitted to illegally taking a banned drug, therefore no presumption as he has virtually pled guilty, allowed to play.

You dont think that is a double standard? Strange

I dont care who plays now. Sorry if that upsets you.

Why would that upset me?

I may get upset after i know all the facts.

But you dont need the facts, you ahve made claims you know what the other Essendon players have said in their interviews and thats the reason you think people are unfair in asking only for Watson to be stood down.

The only facts are - Watson has admitted guilt publicy that he broke WAD rules with drug taking. the other players deserve the presumption of innocence until they also publicy admit their guilt like Watson.

No i dont think its a farce. Sorry again to upset you.

You must think i get upset very easily. So you would call this scandal of illegal drug taking and public confessions well handled?

Fair enough. Even with all the current known facts laid out for you, you think the AFL have covered themselves in glory.

Praise the lord. Oh sorry if that upsets you

Now go ahead and do you quotes again. makes it very nice looking. Im sure you will quote that as well.

You seem a bit upset because someone has deconstructed you poorly put together argument.

Sorry P66, I am just trying to get to the bottom of your argument and it seems very confused and poorly thought out.

Just thought the forum deserved for it to be laid bare.

Would think after reading our discussion forumites can make up their own minds on what is more likely.

Cherrs and dont get too upset that someone has challenged you. This is really about you or me P66

[SainterK]

Darc said last night that we should wait until the investigation is over and it will be sorted and the Bombers will be ok.

In Darc I trust.

Hi Milney.

Darcy was obsessive about it last night. Booing is not a unique concept, it's like it had never happened before

[HarryM]

I dont do quoting so I really couldnt be bothered.

I do and do it very well

Was there an opinion poll I missed?

[plugger66]

I dont do quoting so I really couldnt be bothered.

I do and do it very well

you win what ever you are trying to win.

No winners in this P66. I am not trying to win anything, just attempting to have you see the simple facts of the case.

I answered the questions as honestly as i could.

Thanks

I will try and answer the one about the cyclists. They told the Armstrong enquiry before the tour that they used drus with Armstrong. they were stood down for 6 months after the tour.

OK thanks. Do you have any idea why cycling wouldn't stand them down before the Tour?

And I have no idea what your last comment on cycling has to do with anything. They suspend probably more people than any other sport. I suppose you had to put a rider on it because it didnt suit an agenda of yours that i dont understand

I was not trying to put a rider on it or have an agenda P66, however the fact that cycling didn't ban admitted drug users show that their credibility isn't very good. The AFL would seem now to be on a par with cycling. IMO that is a pretty sad state of affairs.

. And yes Watson is the only one who admitted using.

Thats correct - the only one on record.

Do you live in fantasy land because i can only come to that conclusion if you dont think others told the enquiry they also used.

I dont know what they have said. Maybe you are correct, but at the moment only one player has PUBLICY admitted to taking WADA banned drugs. And that is Jobe Watson.

So simply whatever the other players may or may not have said is supposition on all our parts. What Jobe Watson said is a public admission of guilt.

Stand them all down or none not just watson.

If they are dumb enough to admit it publicy, i agree. However only one has. His presumption of innocence has been negated because he has admitted to taking a banned WADA drug.

No idea why the AFL CEO hasnt spoken. I aint involved in the enquiry.

But you claim to know what the other players have said. have you a link to their testomony, or is it just supposition on your part?

No idea of the second point. think our club stood Milne down though.

Yes you are correct, the STKFC stood down Milne, but after being lent on by the AFL. That was reported at the time.

No idea about double standards as I havent heard all the evidence of either case.

One vigourously denies any wrongdoing. One publicy admits to what he is accused of. I would think this is a HUGE difference.

So why is the AFL leaning on one club when Milne deserves the presumption of innocence, but lets someone who has admitted to illegally taking a banned drug, therefore no presumption as he has virtually pled guilty, allowed to play.

You dont think that is a double standard? Strange

I dont care who plays now. Sorry if that upsets you.

Why would that upset me?

I may get upset after i know all the facts.

But you dont need the facts, you ahve made claims you know what the other Essendon players have said in their interviews and thats the reason you think people are unfair in asking only for Watson to be stood down.

The only facts are - Watson has admitted guilt publicy that he broke WAD rules with drug taking. the other players deserve the presumption of innocence until they also publicy admit their guilt like Watson.

No i dont think its a farce. Sorry again to upset you.

You must think i get upset very easily. So you would call this scandal of illegal drug taking and public confessions well handled?

Fair enough. Even with all the current known facts laid out for you, you think the AFL have covered themselves in glory.

Praise the lord. Oh sorry if that upsets you

Now go ahead and do you quotes again. makes it very nice looking. Im sure you will quote that as well.

You seem a bit upset because someone has deconstructed you poorly put together argument.

Sorry P66, I am just trying to get to the bottom of your argument and it seems very confused and poorly thought out.

Just thought the forum deserved for it to be laid bare.

Would think after reading our discussion forumites can make up their own minds on what is more likely.

Cherrs and dont get too upset that someone has challenged you. This is really about you or me P66

Id love to know what you think my argument actually is. I have said time again I have no idea if Essendon players are guilty or not. Watson admits taking a drug that is now banned. Essendon for some reason are confident that they will get off. i dont want only Watson stood down because i beleive there are others who have admitted they used something that is banned. i didnt know the public decide the penalty. i think it is the AFL and ASADA so Watson telling us means bugger all to those 2 groups unless of course he is the only one who admitted use. So my actual argument has always been to wait and see. Wow thats so poorly thought out. it is so poorly thought out that it is actually happening. it seems we are waiting and seeing. Whether the public like it or not its happening. As for me being upset surely that is a joke. I have been challenged by many more than you over this issue. Cant see why when all I want to do is wait and see.

So again quote this poorly thought out argument what ever that is. And you can decontruct it all you like but that doesnt make you points any better than mine. All it does is make your point as I make mine which is quite boring. Lets just wait and see.

[Richter]

If i was an Essendon supporter and heard them speak I would be very upset when they are found guilty because of the confidence they have shown over the last few months. Surely if there was so much eveidence of guilt they should be getting their supporters used to the idea they maybe in trouble. And I dont mean saying we are guilty but just showing less confidence in public. And i have never thought that because Essendon say they are not guilty then they are not guilty. All along I have said what ever the result Essendon as a club must get a huge penality even if found not guilty due to the pathetic governance of the whoul issue.

I reckon that part of the strategy is to keep on reaffirming their innocence confidently in order to try to hoodwink public opinion that perhaps it has been ASADA's stuff up and that the Bombers should get off because of that.

THe booing of Watson last night IMO shows that as a softening up strategy that will not work.

If the Bombers get off on a technicality and get barely any sanction then there will be some serious outrage from the other clubs.... many will feel disillusioned... not just fans but commentators (Whately, Lane etc.), other coaches (Malthouse) and players (Ryan O'Keefe)...

[plugger66]

If i was an Essendon supporter and heard them speak I would be very upset when they are found guilty because of the confidence they have shown over the last few months. Surely if there was so much eveidence of guilt they should be getting their supporters used to the idea they maybe in trouble. And I dont mean saying we are guilty but just showing less confidence in public. And i have never thought that because Essendon say they are not guilty then they are not guilty. All along I have said what ever the result Essendon as a club must get a huge penality even if found not guilty due to the pathetic governance of the whoul issue.

I reckon that part of the strategy is to keep on reaffirming their innocence confidently in order to try to hoodwink public opinion that perhaps it has been ASADA's stuff up and that the Bombers should get off because of that.

THe booing of Watson last night IMO shows that as a softening up strategy that will not work.

If the Bombers get off on a technicality and get barely any sanction then there will be some serious outrage from the other clubs.... many will feel disillusioned... not just fans but commentators (Whately, Lane etc.), other coaches (Malthouse) and players (Ryan O'Keefe)...

This is where i dont agree. its fine to hoodwink the public but we dont decide the penalty. it will be decided by the AFL and ASADA and making it look like its ASADA stuffed up will not work unless they actually have stuffed up. If Essendon honestly think that they are dead in the water. And i cant see how they get off on a technicality. They either took stuff that is now banned without permission or with permission. if it is without the club is gone and IMO unfortunatly so are the players and for at least 6 months. If they can provide proof ASADA said it was ok to take the stuff it isnt a technicality because the club have done the right thing.

[Scollop]

Just read about the comment from Ryan O'Keefe in The Age Online and perhaps more opposition players and coaches will start voicing thei concerns. Most neutral observers are thinking along these lines;

Hird said he respected and even encouraged the role the media had to play in this sorry saga, but like so many key players at his club continued to hint that we are all missing a major piece of the puzzle.
The natural progression of such hinting is that once all is revealed all will be fine. Except it won't. Not for Hird, not for several of his assistants and not, potentially, for various other staffers. And the reason a growing number of observers have stopped believing the message coming from the club is that the story keeps changing.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/s ... z2XTxpoZZJ

[BigD]

I wonder if Watson saw the writing on the wall with his club spin doctors and QC's planning to defend the indefensible on technicalities.

Maybe he has decided to make a clean breast of it in the hope of gaining a reduced sanction by co-operating and not running a ridiculous defence that basically undermines the anti doping bodies and accuses them of incompetence.

He now has an each way bet on the outcome as he has stuck to the club line that "I don't believe that I have done anything wrong" but has also co-operated to the utmost by confessing.

Is it possible that some more players may think this through and follow suit in coming weeks?

[Con Gorozidis]

Con that is very each way what you just said. Think 2 but they are gawn. You havent had an each way bet for a while.

I have gone from

90% gone 10% asada stuff up

To now

70% gone 30% asada stuff up

Note I remain 0% they are innocent in the true sense.
They cheated but I reckon they have a 30% chance of getting away with it if asada were incompetent.
I can't ignore the high levels of smugness and confidence on display last night .
Maybe I was sucked in it by it.

Is it cheating if you get permission to use a product? Im not saying that happened but surely if you think a product is close to the edge but get permission then that isnt cheating even slightly.

Nope - but I reckon its a bit fuzzier than simply 'getting permission'.
If you read Dank's email chain to WADA he was trying his guts out to manipulate the wording to make it sound like it was 'ok' when it clearly wasnt.
Lets say they were 'actively and aggresively looking for loopholes and cracks' which I will happily call cheating.

[Con Gorozidis]

Meanwhile, back to the survey...............



Q. 58 I previously took banned substances and continue to reap the benefits of the illegal program:

a) Lance Armstrong
a) Jobe Watson
b) The entire Essendon Football Club



Q. 59 I am currently indulging in recreational drugs and continue to post while suffering from the hallucinatory affects of same:

a) Con Gorozidis
b) plugger66
c) All of the above

If I dont take my morning MEDS i get really delirious!