Why can't we copy their model

[dragit]

Scarlett, Ablett, Ablett, Hawkins.

All picked up for a song, leaving them to use their higher dp's on other quality players.

We have drafted OK over the past couple of years, not much worse than Geelong, but the unfair advantage having 3 out and out champions and a premiership player for virtually NOTHING (plus the other players they got gfor the top dps they didn't have to use on thses players) have ensured the Cats are stronger than us after 10 years.

How many Father/son champions have we had? 3 champions in one team in 2009 cost us a flag.

+ 1

Ablett for pick 40, meanwhile take Bartel with their 1st, 2 flags & 2 brownlows, then convert Ablett into 2 first rounders... Good deal if you can get it.

However, they didn't make the rules & they have drafted and developed extremely well.

[BigMart]

Too simplistic with the cats...

Kudos to them for drafting a core with success and holding it together

Scarlett, Harley 1996
Enright, corey, chapman, Ling 1999
Hunt
Bartel, Johnson
Mackie, Lonergan
Vacuole,
Selwood
Harry Taylor
Trent West
Duncan, Christiansen, Smedts

List goes on ..... And the best pick they've had
Pick #7

Traded for
Mooney, Ottens.

Great recruiting created a dynasty

[dragit]

Too simplistic with the cats...

Kudos to them for drafting a core with success and holding it together

Scarlett, Harley 1996
Enright, corey, chapman, Ling 1999
Hunt
Bartel, Johnson
Mackie, Lonergan
Vacuole,
Selwood
Harry Taylor
Trent West
Duncan, Christiansen, Smedts

List goes on ..... And the best pick they've had
Pick #7

Traded for
Mooney, Ottens.

Great recruiting created a dynasty

What's too simplistic - good recruiting?

b.t.w if you are excluding FS selections, you can take out Scarlett from your list of draftees

Harley was a trade from Port too.

[thefatdork]

Was at the game today - and the Cats play team-footy really well and their young guys follow the script and attack the footy, tackle hard and back up with second efforts.
We need time - as well as a bit of faith - in Scott Watters. He is not only trying to rejuvenate the list but is also working on the underlying team culture and mentality. It would be a disaster to have him build the team he needs but lose patience and then have someone else take over a team that has been recruited to play Scott's way.
We may well need to cut him some slack and accept that we may get worse before we get better.
The cats have been very good in terms of showing faith in the coach, players and team - that is part of why they have remained a top team for so long.
BTW, I still reckon we are in with a good shake at making finals if things go ourway, but the GCSuns loss has rocked my confidence a bit.
Still - it's only round one and there's a lot of footy ahead.
TFD

[Scollop]

Watching Geelong, and they still look like a top 4 side after 7 years.
Whilst we we're recruiting hacks from other clubs, they recruited and introduced youngsters who have become very good players to keep the club up.
Our recruiting 07 to 11 is going to haunt us.

Good recruiting and development is where Geelong has left us behind big time. It will be hard to catch up. We should have had a big cleanout after 2011.

Clean out should have happened after 2010.

+1

Agree with most posts, but this is the one for me...and...2 extra players that should have been delisted at the end of 2010 are Gardiner and Blake...That was the time to recruit a ruckmen and a back up tall defender...I know Blake still tries his heart out, but I hope there is a cleanout at years end no matter where we finish on the ladder

[kos]

Isn't recruiting a 21yr old ruck man and forward recruiting for needs? This time last year we had only 1ruckman on our list now we have 2 ready to play! Give the team a break its 1 game in a very long season. If we beat Richmond all will be forgiven!

[bergholt]

Isn't recruiting a 21yr old ruck man and forward recruiting for needs? This time last year we had only 1ruckman on our list now we have 2 ready to play! Give the team a break its 1 game in a very long season. If we beat Richmond all will be forgiven!

Can you really see that happening though? On the evidence of the weekend we'll be lucky to finish within seven goals of them.

[PaytonPlace]

Apologies if I've missed anyone - might as well spell it out...thoughts...

2004 - Aaron Fiora (trade), Andrew McQualter, Mark McGough, James Gwilt
2005 - Fergus Watts (trade), Sam Gilbert, Michael Rix, Phil Raymond, Justin Sweeney
2006 - Shane Birss/Michael Gardiner (trade), David Armitage, Brad Howard, Jarryd Allen, Matthew Ferguson, Matthew Clarke
2007 - Adam Schneider/Sean Dempster/Charlie Gardiner/Steven King (trade), Ben McEvoy, Jack Steven, G-Train, Eljay Connors
2008 - Farren Ray (trade), Tom Lynch, Rhys Stanley, Nick Heyne, Alistair Smith, Paul Cahill, Colm Begley
2009 - Andrew Lovett/Brett Peake (trade), Nicholas Winmar, Jesse W Smith, Adam Pattison, Will Johnson, Zac Dawson/Luke Miles (PR)
2010 - Jamie Cripps, Sam Crocker, Tom Ledger, Arryn Siposs, Ryan Gamble, Dean Polo, Tom Simpkin (PR)
2011 - Terry Milera/Ahmed Saad (trade), Seb Ross, Daniel Markworth, Jack Newnes, Jimmy Webster, Jay Lever, Beau Wilkes, Jason Blake (Redraft)

[kos]

There is no doubt about how miserable our drafting has been and how extraordinary geelongs has been all I can say is that hopefully our last 2 years of recruiting has been good enough to turn things around.

I was told a story the other day from a Geelong supporter on how they manage to manipulate the draft.
This one incident was involving Allen Christensen who was told by the cats to cruise through his draft year, putting him on a high carb diet resulting in a record skin fold test with the promise of drafting him.

After hearing this It would be fair to say this would happen fairly often amongst all clubs who would try and hide a few gems.

[PaytonPlace]

And in for a penny...the Cats

2004 - Brad Ottens (trade), Brent Prismall, Nathan Ablett, Matt Egan
2005 - Travis Varcoe, Trent West, Stephen Owen, Ryan Gamble, Mathew Stokes
2006 - Joel Selwood, Nathan Djerkurra, Tom Hawkins, Simon Hogan
2007 - Harry Taylor, Dawson Simpson, Scott Simpson, Dan McKenna, Adam Donohue
2008 - Mitch Brown, Tom Gillies, Steven Motlop, Taylor Hunt
2009 - Marcus Drum (trade), Daniel Menzel, Mitch Duncan, Allen Christensen, Nathan Vardy, Josh Cowan, Jeremy Laidler (PR)
2010 - Billie Smedts, Cameron Guthrie, George Horlin-Smith, J-POD (PR)
2011- Joel Hamling, Shane Kersten, Jordan Murdoch, Lincoln McCarthy, Orren Stephenson, Jed Bews

[saint66au]

In all those years of drafting....we have exactly one gun...Sean Dempster...and even he took 3 years to come good.

The rest ? A few good but not gun players, a few ok and the rest gone.

There's your recipe for a slide down the ladder right there.

Oh and it's not just Geelong. Add Hawks and Collingwood to that list. Masses of money to spend on draft research. May or may not be a factor but drafting is the reason those teams window is still open and ours is shut.

[PaytonPlace]

I'll do one final one, I don't want to clog up the board, and I could do the Demons to make us feel better - but the Pies

2004: Chad Morrison (trade), Chris Egan, Sean Rusling, Travis Cloke, Adam Iacobucci, Blake Caracella (PSD) (+ Harry O'Brien and Nick Maxwell off the rookie list)
2005: Dale Thomas, Scott Pendlebury, Danny Stanley, Ryan Cook, Jack Anthony, Sam Iles (PSD) (+ Alan Toovey off the rookie list)
2006: Paul Medhurst (trade), Nathan Brown, Chris Dawes, Brad Dick, Tyson Goldsack, Chris Bryan (PSD) (+ Sharrod Wellingham and Brent MacAffer off the rookie list)
2007: Cameron Wood (trade), John McCarthy, Tobias Thoolen, Jaxson Barham
2008: Anthony Corrie (trade), Steele Sidebottom, Dayne Beams, Jarrad Blight, Luke Rounds, Leigh Brown (+ Jarryd Blair and Lachlan Keefe off the rookie list)
2009: Darren Jolly (trade), Luke Ball, Ben Sinclair, Josh Thomas, Simon Buckley
2010: Andrew Krakouer/Chris Tarrant/John Ceglar (trade), Alex Fasolo, Danny Farmer, Kirk Ugle, Paul Seedsman, Tom Young
2011: Marty Clarke, Jamie Elliott, Peter Yagmoor (trade), Jackson Paine, Corey Gault, Jarrod Witts

[sippo]

Kersten Burbury Walker and Thurlow , 4 more the Cats have snared who show some ability, ohh and cowan too (though out injured)

[BigMart]

Too simplistic to suggest Father Son has given them premierships

They did a lot more than that to build that team

[loris]

ohh and cowan too (though out injured)

Oh dear does that mean we will have to find a new partner for Warner in the upcoming Ashes Tour

[sippo]

Ohhh and Mitch Brown who was there first rounf pick 3 years ago, clocked up a bog in thier VFL team on the w/end

[saintsRrising]

Our recruiting 07 to 11 is going to haunt us.

It already is haunting, or at least is the stuff our nightmares.

No one gets all their calls right, but I do not think that there is any doubt that when we were "up", that we should have been more up but had virtually no kids come through. Whether it cost us a shiny cup or two who knows, but I think yes.

That it has bit hard these last several years, and will bite hard for at least several more is clear to see.

Our crap recruiting of kids is also why a line was drawn in the sand and Pelchen was brought in. Whether he can turn the recruiting ship around remains to be seen. Bold is the only word to describe many of his picks and deals. Whether this proves to be inspired, or a farce, time will tell.

Individually there is a case for all of his picks, and he seems to be extracting good value in most trades.

But as a group I do feel a bit of unease when you look at our "emerging" mids, as midfield is where you need to dominate these days. But this group is looking very thin and small in number. Hopefully someone like a Wright can emerge as a "surprise" mid.

[I Love Peter Kiel]

Ok that's enough. History is written by the victors. Remember when we beat Geelong in the Night GF then thrashed them in the opening round of '04? They looked slow, they looked like losers.

They also were lucky with timing. 2007 was our 'down' year. If the Saints team of '04, '05, '09 or even '08 had been in the GF against Port, we would have won by 30 goals! So Geelong got an 'easy' GF after 44 years and we didn't .
Plus if everything they've done is a success , how do you explain the epic fail of '08... Only losing 2 games, one of which was the GF?

Of course the Cats looked like world-beaters today. They have 3 recent Premierships at the club.... That tends to build confidence.

Final point... They got father-sons. I don't think the Saints have had many of those.

[I Love Peter Kiel]

Another point. Lyon got Lovett because couldn't get one bloody goal in the last quarter in '09! It was an inspired gamble which didn't work because Lovett never played a game for us. Why not? Because he'd been out on the piss and God knows what else with Gramm.
The girl he ended up was probably so out of it that she probably wouldn't have known it wasn't the bloke she expected if he was white.

BTW James Turd and all the other Essendon assh&les gave a character reference.

Anyway, just say that incident had never happened, d'ya reckon Lovett would have got us that extra point or goal in the final quarter of the Drawn GF? I sure as hell do.

[bergholt]

Anyway, just say that incident had never happened, d'ya reckon Lovett would have got us that extra point or goal in the final quarter of the Drawn GF? I sure as hell do.

Agreed. There was approximately zero chance of Lovett doing something so stupid that we were forced to delist him. Unfortunately that's what happened, and it cost us a premiership.

[SydneySainter]

Another point. Lyon got Lovett because couldn't get one bloody goal in the last quarter in '09! It was an inspired gamble which didn't work because Lovett never played a game for us. Why not? Because he'd been out on the piss and God knows what else with Gramm.
The girl he ended up was probably so out of it that she probably wouldn't have known it wasn't the bloke she expected if he was white.

BTW James Turd and all the other Essendon assh&les gave a character reference.

Anyway, just say that incident had never happened, d'ya reckon Lovett would have got us that extra point or goal in the final quarter of the Drawn GF? I sure as hell do.

Or Cousins in the 09 GF?

[BigMart]

Andrew Lovett

Inspired choice.... April fools joke surely...

[spert]

Geelong are a better club from the top down, the tail doesn't wag the dog at any level, and the president and board demand success at all levels, and that's why they have three recent premierships. Our challenge is not so much to emulate Geelong, but to build a successful club, and this starts at the top. I saw a lot of passion from the Geelong President leading up to 2009, pretty much putting everyone on notice to do better across the club. I just hope our president and board are as passionate, as our future is in their hands.

[3rd generation saint]

The difference between Geelong's recruiting and our recruiting, isn't just the quality of player, it is the fact that they blooded them as well, gave them game time and nurtured them. Our recruits would BOG at Sandringham and would be constantly overlooked by RL's favourite bit players, so they lost valuable experience.
Some of the guys we've let go, may have been decent players if we had supported them like Geelong, Collingwood and Hawthorn did.
The lagacy of recruiting during the Lyon era is only 3 players who have established themselves, McEvoy, Stevens and Armitage, and Armitage and Stevens have really blossomed since Watters has been here.
At other clubs, I reckon Sippos and Stanley would ahve had 30+ games by now.

[stinger]

The difference between Geelong's recruiting and our recruiting, isn't just the quality of player, it is the fact that they blooded them as well, gave them game time and nurtured them. Our recruits would BOG at Sandringham and would be constantly overlooked by RL's favourite bit players, so they lost valuable experience.
Some of the guys we've let go, may have been decent players if we had supported them like Geelong, Collingwood and Hawthorn did.
The lagacy of recruiting during the Lyon era is only 3 players who have established themselves, McEvoy, Stevens and Armitage, and Armitage and Stevens have really blossomed since Watters has been here.
At other clubs, I reckon Sippos and Stanley would ahve had 30+ games by now.

good post...