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Re: Saints and Mr. Gilbert feature in New York Times.

Postby White Winmar » Thu 27 Jul 2017 10:47pm

Still no cogent arguments, just mindless criticism. "Long way to go", "Neanderthal", "Middle Ages", the usual empty rhetoric. The lobbyists who control those with an inability to be rationally sceptical and think for themselves would be delighted. The example of the church moralising on the issue while indulging in child rape just shows that organisation for what it is. A bunch of sick and twisted hypocrites. Their third in charge is in town ATM, don't you know? Closeted and now accused of his organisation's favourite past time. Child abuse. Why don't we celebrate all those gay priests out there who say one thing from the pulpit and do another in secret. How proud they must be of themselves.

How does their appalling behaviour fit in with the argument? Isn't it the behaviour that is risky and detrimental to your health? The victims of sexual abuse and rape will testify to that. The link between pedophilia and homosexuality is another topic that is taboo. In the research the evidence is incontrovertible, the two are inextricably linked, but try saying it in public and see what you get. The new censorship. I'm surprised I haven't been called a racist, Islamophobe, misogynist etc. If two consenting men want to indulge in a sexual relationship, then so be it. Know the risks, but provide a bit of truth and stop all the PC spin and bs. You might even get to where you're supposedly going a bit quicker with a bit of honesty.
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Re: Saints and Mr. Gilbert feature in New York Times.

Postby WellardSaint » Thu 27 Jul 2017 11:24pm

Virtue signalling...
a few years ago, I upset a number of folk in the General Forum, when I criticized the intake of refugees into Australia.
I copped a lot of stick, being called "racist", the usual response.
When I suggested to these people that they could actually assist in fact and not just in words,
through a federal gov programme which pays a household to house a refugee for a month,
and even included a hyperlink in my post.
There followed total silence from those tree-hugging left-wing soy latte drinkers.
Not a peep. NIMBY (not in my backyard) :twisted:
It's just one month. Not a long term commitment.
"Go on", I urged them. "put some action behind your words, and get some money for it as well!"

They are big on talk, but go to water when confronted by some logic and truth.
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Re: Saints and Mr. Gilbert feature in New York Times.

Postby terry smith rules » Thu 27 Jul 2017 11:53pm

WellardSaint wrote:Virtue signalling...
a few years ago, I upset a number of folk in the General Forum, when I criticized the intake of refugees into Australia.
I copped a lot of stick, being called "racist", the usual response.
When I suggested to these people that they could actually assist in fact and not just in words,
through a federal gov programme which pays a household to house a refugee for a month,
and even included a hyperlink in my post.
There followed total silence from those tree-hugging left-wing soy latte drinkers.
Not a peep. NIMBY (not in my backyard) :twisted:
It's just one month. Not a long term commitment.
"Go on", I urged them. "put some action behind your words, and get some money for it as well!"

They are big on talk, but go to water when confronted by some logic and truth.

Wtf has that got do with any of this?
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Re: Saints and Mr. Gilbert feature in New York Times.

Postby The_Merchant » Thu 27 Jul 2017 11:54pm

White Winmar wrote:
The_Dud wrote:Fantastic.

It still baffles me that there are people who fight this kind of progress.

And it baffles me that people think that men sodomising each other should be a source of pride.

Pretty ordinary comment really.
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Re: Saints and Mr. Gilbert feature in New York Times.

Postby terry smith rules » Thu 27 Jul 2017 11:55pm

White Winmar wrote:Still no cogent arguments, just mindless criticism. "Long way to go", "Neanderthal", "Middle Ages", the usual empty rhetoric. The lobbyists who control those with an inability to be rationally sceptical and think for themselves would be delighted. The example of the church moralising on the issue while indulging in child rape just shows that organisation for what it is. A bunch of sick and twisted hypocrites. Their third in charge is in town ATM, don't you know? Closeted and now accused of his organisation's favourite past time. Child abuse. Why don't we celebrate all those gay priests out there who say one thing from the pulpit and do another in secret. How proud they must be of themselves.

How does their appalling behaviour fit in with the argument? Isn't it the behaviour that is risky and detrimental to your health? The victims of sexual abuse and rape will testify to that. The link between pedophilia and homosexuality is another topic that is taboo. In the research the evidence is incontrovertible, the two are inextricably linked, but try saying it in public and see what you get. The new censorship. I'm surprised I haven't been called a racist, Islamophobe, misogynist etc. If two consenting men want to indulge in a sexual relationship, then so be it. Know the risks, but provide a bit of truth and stop all the PC spin and bs. You might even get to where you're supposedly going a bit quicker with a bit of honesty.


I am simply ashamed that you and I share a football team.
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Re: Saints and Mr. Gilbert feature in New York Times.

Postby WellardSaint » Fri 28 Jul 2017 12:00am

terry smith rules wrote:
White Winmar wrote:Still no cogent arguments, just mindless criticism. "Long way to go", "Neanderthal", "Middle Ages", the usual empty rhetoric. The lobbyists who control those with an inability to be rationally sceptical and think for themselves would be delighted. The example of the church moralising on the issue while indulging in child rape just shows that organisation for what it is. A bunch of sick and twisted hypocrites. Their third in charge is in town ATM, don't you know? Closeted and now accused of his organisation's favourite past time. Child abuse. Why don't we celebrate all those gay priests out there who say one thing from the pulpit and do another in secret. How proud they must be of themselves.

How does their appalling behaviour fit in with the argument? Isn't it the behaviour that is risky and detrimental to your health? The victims of sexual abuse and rape will testify to that. The link between pedophilia and homosexuality is another topic that is taboo. In the research the evidence is incontrovertible, the two are inextricably linked, but try saying it in public and see what you get. The new censorship. I'm surprised I haven't been called a racist, Islamophobe, misogynist etc. If two consenting men want to indulge in a sexual relationship, then so be it. Know the risks, but provide a bit of truth and stop all the PC spin and bs. You might even get to where you're supposedly going a bit quicker with a bit of honesty.


I am simply ashamed that you and I share a football team.


Whereas I am proud to share a team with White WInmar.
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Re: Saints and Mr. Gilbert feature in New York Times.

Postby Sainternist » Fri 28 Jul 2017 1:09am

White Winmar wrote:Still no cogent arguments, just mindless criticism. "Long way to go", "Neanderthal", "Middle Ages", the usual empty rhetoric. The lobbyists who control those with an inability to be rationally sceptical and think for themselves would be delighted. The example of the church moralising on the issue while indulging in child rape just shows that organisation for what it is. A bunch of sick and twisted hypocrites. Their third in charge is in town ATM, don't you know? Closeted and now accused of his organisation's favourite past time. Child abuse. Why don't we celebrate all those gay priests out there who say one thing from the pulpit and do another in secret. How proud they must be of themselves.

How does their appalling behaviour fit in with the argument? Isn't it the behaviour that is risky and detrimental to your health? The victims of sexual abuse and rape will testify to that. The link between pedophilia and homosexuality is another topic that is taboo. In the research the evidence is incontrovertible, the two are inextricably linked, but try saying it in public and see what you get. The new censorship. I'm surprised I haven't been called a racist, Islamophobe, misogynist etc. If two consenting men want to indulge in a sexual relationship, then so be it. Know the risks, but provide a bit of truth and stop all the PC spin and bs. You might even get to where you're supposedly going a bit quicker with a bit of honesty.


There is also a link between heterosexuality and pedophilia - men who rape little girls, which is also horrific. But I'm with you on campaigning in an effort to stop the sexual abuse of children, particularly as a survivor of it myself.

Would be fantastic if the club was to offer support for some of the organisations doing their utmost prevent it and help survivors of it. I'm sure there are Saints supporters out there who've been affected by it at some point in their lives.

A couple of years ago the veteran American punk band Bad Religion released a Christmas album where proceeds from record sales went towards legal aid for victims of child sexual abuse at the hands of these unspeakable Catholic priests.

Perhaps the club could do something similar for the victims here in Australia and get swifter justice for the likes of George Pell and his merry band of creeps.
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Re: Saints and Mr. Gilbert feature in New York Times.

Postby jimmy_slats » Fri 28 Jul 2017 5:54am

I finally worked it out !!! White winmara is Andrew bolt! And also a bloke that types away his predjedess but wouldnt have the balls to actually say it to someone who was gay... Tap tap tap ww tap tap tap that's the only sound hero's likes you know how yo make xo
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Re: Saints and Mr. Gilbert feature in New York Times.

Postby White Winmar » Fri 28 Jul 2017 6:13am

jimmy_slats wrote:I finally worked it out !!! White winmara is Andrew bolt! And also a bloke that types away his predjedess but wouldnt have the balls to actually say it to someone who was gay... Tap tap tap ww tap tap tap that's the only sound hero's likes you know how yo make xo

I trust you see the irony of your post. A typical keyboard warrior's response. Still no argument, just another empty attempt at criticism. What a hero. And it's heroes, plural. When trying to criticise, it's best to spell correctly and use the correct wording. " Hero's likes you". Says it all about you. Too angry to get the words down properly, or just a bit dim? Hilarious. Tap, tap tap, little SJW, tap, tap, tap.
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Re: Saints and Mr. Gilbert feature in New York Times.

Postby carn_sainter » Fri 28 Jul 2017 6:50am

White Winmar wrote:
BringBackMadDog wrote:
White Winmar wrote:
The_Dud wrote:Fantastic.

It still baffles me that there are people who fight this kind of progress.

And it baffles me that people think that men sodomising each other should be a source of pride.

What a moronic ignorant statement to make. So it's ok for a bloke to brag to his mates because his girlfriend allows him to anally penetrate her but two men who genuinely love each other and share physical love in the privacy of their own room should be ashamed?
You are a complete Neanderthal

You are so superior. Magnificent virtue signalling. Bring me up to speed as to the statement I made, rather than abuse me and make illogical comparisons. Nicely brainwashed. Better a sensible Neanderthal than a member of the "sheople". What they do in private is their business. It's legal as well, so no problems with that. Just can't see what there is to be proud about when the psychological and health outcomes of the practise are so devastating. It's an ugly reality the gay lobby goes to great lengths to cover up. Higher rates of mental illness, std's, compromised immunity etc. no cause for celebration there, methinks.


White Winmar, I really think you have a terrible, terrible attitude about this. It's not cool. You're being oppressive.

The 'it's legal' argument is a silly one. Legality and morality or virtue are not necessarily the same. This is an aside.

Are there not negative psychological and health outcomes in heterosexual relationships and sexual practice? Maybe these outcomes are overrepresented in discussions of homosexuality because they are studied more, studied with bias or because the broader social attitude towards homosexuality (such as your attitude) necessitate that homosexuality is practiced in secret and without proper education about the risks or capacity to mitigate those risks.

Maybe the higher rates of mental illness are likewise because of all the hate and prejudice attitudes like your's throw at gay people.

Your opinion completely refuses to acknowledge the broader social conditions and the way that our society has historically approached and therefore still does approach homosexuality. And you dress it up as your freedom of speech, as if people who disagree are fascist censors and you try to flavour it with scientific rigour, much like the social darwinists used to do.

You need to seriously reflect on why you have such an oppressive attitude here. Not cool.
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Re: Nothing to see here. Another hijacked thread.

Postby White Winmar » Fri 28 Jul 2017 8:45am

Just your opinion. I trust you see the irony of your post. I think you're the one guilty of oppressive behaviour. Let's agree to disagree, but spare me the facile morality lecture, that is the standard response of the perpetually outraged.
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Re: Nothing to see here. Another hijacked thread.

Postby desertsaint » Fri 28 Jul 2017 9:19am

enjoy good, robust debate. dislike those who simply try to silence opinion through insult.
i disagree though ww, in your provactive reduction of gayness to sodomy. the points you make are all valid, but there are many other points you exclude, the big one being the right to love who you love and have that acceptable by society and law. obviously having sexual relations with animals and minors will remain abhorrent and punishable to most, and minors should be protected from gay influence to a certain extent, but surely two grown adults can be allowed to express their love of one another openly and proudly and have society at the very least tolerate it, more hopefully accept and recognise it?
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Re: Nothing to see here. Another hijacked thread.

Postby SaintPav » Fri 28 Jul 2017 9:25am

I thought Nick Smith's brother's comment about wishing he could come out when he was playing Auskick was interesting.

When a topic begins to dominate the public discourse I immediately become suspicious as every thinking person should.

Every mainstream "liberal" left party in the Western world has jumped on to this bandwagon and if people think political power actually give a rats about gay pride etc they are being simplistic and naive. Eg Killary Clinton and Barack Obama. Both imperialist scumbags. Political opportunism.

I would vote for equal marriage rights btw.
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Re: Nothing to see here. Another hijacked thread.

Postby Saints43 » Fri 28 Jul 2017 9:44am

White Winmar wrote:The link between pedophilia and homosexuality is another topic that is taboo. In the research the evidence is incontrovertible, the two are inextricably linked, but try saying it in public and see what you get.


Is there a link/reference to that incontrovertible evidence?



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Re: Nothing to see here. Another hijacked thread.

Postby thejiggingsaint » Fri 28 Jul 2017 9:58am

Despite all the claims of "incontrovertible evidence" to the contrary, perversion and immorality are not the sole property of homosexuals. Live and let live? Society needs to have this debate, it may not always contain the sort of language and choice of terms that suits everyone, but it should be talked about.
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Re: Saints and Mr. Gilbert feature in New York Times.

Postby suss » Fri 28 Jul 2017 10:01am

White Winmar wrote:
The_Dud wrote:Fantastic.

It still baffles me that there are people who fight this kind of progress.

And it baffles me that people think that men sodomising each other should be a source of pride.



Just noting that this is where it all kicked off.

Perhaps stick to commentary on football WW - I actually enjoy those posts - they're informative and relevant to the forum.
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Re: Nothing to see here. Another hijacked thread.

Postby White Winmar » Fri 28 Jul 2017 10:05am

desertsaint wrote:enjoy good, robust debate. dislike those who simply try to silence opinion through insult.
i disagree though ww, in your provactive reduction of gayness to sodomy. the points you make are all valid, but there are many other points you exclude, the big one being the right to love who you love and have that acceptable by society and law. obviously having sexual relations with animals and minors will remain abhorrent and punishable to most, and minors should be protected from gay influence to a certain extent, but surely two grown adults can be allowed to express their love of one another openly and proudly and have society at the very least tolerate it, more hopefully accept and recognise it?


Agree totally with what you've written, desertsaint. I think some people have missed the parts where I've stated, more than once that no one should be denied their human rights, that you should be free to be in a consenting relationship with whomever you choose to be and that homosexuality is not illegal, which I think is correct. As SP outlined, my problem is with political opportunism and virtue signalling. One of the more disturbing aspects of this culture war, is the agitation of prominent pedophile activists trying to attach themselves to the LGBTI lobby, under the banner of "age differently sexual attraction" and even more brazenly, "Pedosexual". Thankfully these moves have been largely resisted, but it highlights the dangers of gradual shifts in what is considered tolerable or desireable.

The Club got involved in this concept because it needed a "niche" game. Yes, my original post was provocative and it drew a predictable response. In my defence, what is it that distinguishes a gay man from a straight one? Not much, except sexual practices. Last time I looked, gay men held jobs, paid taxes, contributed to the Arts and science, had relationships etc. The only real point of difference is The way they have sex. So is that what we're celebrating?

The sceptic in me feels the club took the opportunity to get behind the concept because of marketing possibilities, brand management and improving our public image. I think it was done more out of commercial necessity than any great sense of social responsibility and activism. Like the politicians SP spoke of. Political expediency is what is behind it. Now, back to the footy.
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Re: Nothing to see here. Another hijacked thread.

Postby carn_sainter » Fri 28 Jul 2017 10:08am

White Winmar wrote:Just your opinion. I trust you see the irony of your post. I think you're the one guilty of oppressive behaviour. Let's agree to disagree, but spare me the facile morality lecture, that is the standard response of the perpetually outraged.


To be fair, suggesting you need to seriously reflect on your attitudes is not a form of oppression. It's certainly far less so, in any case, than saying there is nothing in homosexuality to be proud of, that it is inherently shameful. Again, your response to a contrary opinion is just to call the person a fascist who is anti-freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is an important governmental policy because people should not be imprisoned for talking, but that does not mean that all opinions are virtuous or that we should never be asked to reconsider our opinions and reflect on them critically.

So your choices for a response are to think about what you're doing when saying that homosexuality is nothing to be proud of or to just respond to others like they are Stalin. Only one of the two is constructive.
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Re: Nothing to see here. Another hijacked thread.

Postby WellardSaint » Fri 28 Jul 2017 1:06pm

I got banned from Facebook for 3 days recently.
I put a post on a local community FB page, about certain gay behaviour.
I included a news article from the Perth newspaper, about a
toilet block in a public playground, that is to be bulldozed because
- the toilet block is a known haunt of gays
- it's named in some gay "venue" website as a highly popular location
(they mention that lookouts are usually posted in nearby bushes, it's well visited by you know who)
- it's 50m from a kid's playground
- numerous people have complained to police about being approached by certain type when simply wanting to use the toilet for its intended use
- regular incidents of vandalism and petty crime in the vicinity

My FB post had said if they want to indulge in this behaviour, do it behind closed doors and stay away from public toilets.
Half of the responders called me "homophobic", some said "there's lots of married men who are secretly bi, and that's the only way to do it" and other rubbish comments.
My post was reported to FB and I was banned for 3 days.

I agree 100% with everything WW has said on here.
If they insist on certain types of behaviour, then they only have themselves to blame for all consequences and are bringing it on themselves.

And those of you who are so stridently in defence of them, would you let your 6 year-old kids go unaccompanied to a public toilet?
I choose to hear the narrative with intelligence and realise there is a creepy agenda, whereas a lot of folk simply behave like sheep
and jump on the bandwagon lest they be branded as bigots. It's not clever to follow the mob; sheep and cattle do that.
Humans are the apex predator, we got this way by intelligence.
Following blindly simply means you have reverted to the status of our Paleolithic ancestors.
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Re: Nothing to see here. Another hijacked thread.

Postby freely » Fri 28 Jul 2017 1:21pm

I'm among those beginning to find your posts offensive WS. Men seeking men are not seeking children any more than men seeking women are seeking children. Children have no more to fear from homosexuals than they do from heterosexuals. Children are more in danger of being abused in their own homes than they are of being abused in a public toilet.

Please, stick to football!
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Re: Saints and Mr. Gilbert feature in New York Times.

Postby Proph3t of egan » Fri 28 Jul 2017 1:21pm

White Winmar wrote:
The_Dud wrote:Fantastic.

It still baffles me that there are people who fight this kind of progress.

And it baffles me that people think that men sodomising each other should be a source of pride.

By that logic, shouldn't every type of pride be baffling? National pride just happens to be where you are born. Parental pride just sort of happens to be what your kid does, and pride as a st kilda supporter, well that's just all the masochistic people of the world begging for some more pain
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Re: Nothing to see here. Another hijacked thread.

Postby Proph3t of egan » Fri 28 Jul 2017 1:28pm

Really annoying that anything remotely political that is said on this website derails the while point of the discussion. Good on Gilbo for standing up for what he believes in and its nice to see some international recognition for the club
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Re: Nothing to see here. Another hijacked thread.

Postby WellardSaint » Fri 28 Jul 2017 1:29pm

freely wrote:I'm among those beginning to find your posts offensive WS. Men seeking men are not seeking children any more than men seeking women are seeking children. Children have no more to fear from homosexuals than they do from heterosexuals. Children are more in danger of being abused in their own homes than they are of being abused in a public toilet.

Please, stick to football!


You're simply cherry-picking one line from my post.
Look at the whole post- adults are being propositioned at that place all the time.
One local in the news article, who gave his full name, did 3 laps of the running track, and went to use the toilet,
was approached by a guy who grabbed his family jewels. This is disgusting, offensive anti-social behaviour and must be condemned.

If you find my posts offensive, I suggest you put me on your "foe" list. That's a simple fix.
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Re: Saints and Mr. Gilbert feature in New York Times.

Postby Johnny Member » Fri 28 Jul 2017 2:02pm

White Winmar wrote:
The_Dud wrote:Fantastic.

It still baffles me that there are people who fight this kind of progress.

And it baffles me that people think that men sodomising each other should be a source of pride.


Baffles me that when you think of two people loving each other - you choose to visualize their penises and their rectums.


Might say more about you, than it does about them.
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Re: Nothing to see here. Another hijacked thread.

Postby Johnny Member » Fri 28 Jul 2017 2:04pm

WellardSaint wrote:I got banned from Facebook for 3 days recently.
I put a post on a local community FB page, about certain gay behaviour.
I included a news article from the Perth newspaper, about a
toilet block in a public playground, that is to be bulldozed because
- the toilet block is a known haunt of gays
- it's named in some gay "venue" website as a highly popular location
(they mention that lookouts are usually posted in nearby bushes, it's well visited by you know who)
- it's 50m from a kid's playground
- numerous people have complained to police about being approached by certain type when simply wanting to use the toilet for its intended use
- regular incidents of vandalism and petty crime in the vicinity

My FB post had said if they want to indulge in this behaviour, do it behind closed doors and stay away from public toilets.
Half of the responders called me "homophobic", some said "there's lots of married men who are secretly bi, and that's the only way to do it" and other rubbish comments.
My post was reported to FB and I was banned for 3 days.

I agree 100% with everything WW has said on here.
If they insist on certain types of behaviour, then they only have themselves to blame for all consequences and are bringing it on themselves.

And those of you who are so stridently in defence of them, would you let your 6 year-old kids go unaccompanied to a public toilet?
I choose to hear the narrative with intelligence and realise there is a creepy agenda, whereas a lot of folk simply behave like sheep
and jump on the bandwagon lest they be branded as bigots. It's not clever to follow the mob; sheep and cattle do that.
Humans are the apex predator, we got this way by intelligence.
Following blindly simply means you have reverted to the status of our Paleolithic ancestors.


Your issue is with men. Not with homosexuality.

Straight men would be lining up for sex in Bourke St if they could.
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