rules - time to revise them

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rules - time to revise them

Postby BackFromUSA » Thu 22 Jun 2017 1:36am

It has been over 3 years since I took over as admin and the new rules were put to the community and discussed.

The mods feel that it worthy of discussing new rules, some reduced penalties and more flexibility for mods.

The current rules are still up and in force on the forum.

Here is the FIRST DRAFT of how we see the rules going forward - pre the community feedback.

We shall take into account ALL opinions and then decide on what we feel is best for the health and happiness of the forum.

DRAFT: SAINTSATIONAL FAN FORUM RULES (AS OF 22 JUNE 2017)

Saintsational Fan Forum is an unofficial St Kilda Football Club discussion forum open to all ages.

Due to minors being able to access this Fan Forum, respectful behaviour at all times is essential.

Only topics that directly relate to being a fan of the St. Kilda Football Club are allowed in this forum. Other forums such as an Opposition & General Sports Forum; Cheer Squad/Morrabbin Wing Forum, a General Forum, even an Administration Forum and the over 18's Animal Enclosure are all available for other topics and discussions. There are different rules in place for each forum on Saintsational. Please be aware of these rules before posting. Not being aware of a rule will not be an excuse.

REPORTING A BREACH OF RULES TO MODERATORS

The forum has a <!> button in each post for ANY poster to report ANY breach of forum rules to the moderators. The reporting poster will only be known to the Moderators but otherwise anonymous.

Use the REPORT FUNCTION <!>to alert the Moderators to a potential rule breach. Where possible, or deemed essential, your report will be acknowledged and/or decisions will be explained to you. Do not make threads or posts requesting the discipline. Only use the <!> function in the offending posts.

The Moderators will assess ALL reports from the Fan Form and Private Messages. The Moderators try to cover different times of each day but do not read and assess each and every post as they are volunteers and cannot spend all of their time on the forum. Reports may take time to assess if they do not fit into the “cut & dry” view of rules and a consensus is required between the 3 Moderators.

The moderation team has the right to edit, split, move to another Forum or delete threads or posts that in their personal opinion breach any rule and according the rules below issue official warnings and / or bans to the offending poster. Otherwise no other content shall be altered by moderators. Should a Moderator be required to edit a post, this will be shown in the post itself and any warning and explanation issued in private to that poster via PM and noted within <> in the original post.

PENALTIES

Please note that a mere Saintsational warning has no lasting effect after 7 days.

It no longer counts in your posting record in terms of further warnings or banning. Receiving a warning is not a disaster and should be used to modify your behaviour and avoid a ban.

If a poster receives three warnings within a seven day period (based on the times you have posted your posts and not the times of assessment / warnings) then a one week ban will be issued.

Repeat offenders will have that ban effectively double each time (2 weeks, 1 month etc) for each repeat offences.

Exceptions with more severe penalties can be found below for behaviour deemed unacceptable.

Bans will be published for all posters to see in a post at the time of issue in the Fan Forum and later moved to the Administration Forum.

SERIAL OFFENDERS ARE PERMANENTLY BANNED

Please note that if a poster receives 3 bans within a 12 month period, it results in a permanent ban.

There are 3 levels of banning: nic or I.P or both plus e-mail address at the Administrator’s discretion.

RULES PHILOSOPHY: PLAY THE BALL (OPINION) AND NOT THE MAN (POSTER / PLAYER / OFFICIAL)

Vigorous debate and friendly banter on St. Kilda Football Club matters is encouraged on the Saintsational Fan Forum, as long as there is respect for each other and all opinions.

POSTER INTERACTION RULE

No matter how much you disagree, or dismiss the worth of any opinion posted, or dismiss the worth of the poster in your eyes, your response must be respectful. Argue the facts. Post an opposing opinion. Do NOT make commentary about the poster - ONLY make commentary on the post content.

If you abuse, insult, tease, mock, belittle, badger or bait another poster at any time, this is regarded as a breach of rules in the Fan Forum and will result in the issuing of an official Saintsational warning.

ONGOING DISPUTES RULE

If posters repeatedly revisit past disagreements causing or creating an ongoing dispute between one or more posters, these disputes can result in multiple breaches and multiple simultaneous Saintsational warnings and as a result a 1 week ban without prior notice. We strongly advise that ongoing disputes be voluntarily by the posters involved taken to the ANIMAL ENCLOSURE forum, where the rules allow ongoing disputes and more abusive posts, as a closed rather than open forum.

ABUSING OR DEMEANING A SAINTS PLAYER, FAMILY OR OFFICIAL

Commenting on the performance of a Saints player / official is allowed. In cases where posters abuse or demean a Saints player / official / or their family, OR casts dispersions on their character and it is deemed by the moderators to be unreasonably offensive and inflammatory, then the moderators (if all moderators agree) can issue a Saintsational warning, or in extreme cases a 1 week ban of the offending poster.

However, we recognise that match time and match days are emotionally charged. If a post is made that is deemed by a moderator to be highly inappropriate, offensive or inflammatory during match days, the moderator can edit this post and that moderator has the right to unilaterally issue a 6 hour ban, as a cooling off period for the offending poster or posters, but in extreme cases a 1 week ban.

SWEAR RULE

Swearing covered by the swear filter will be published as f***, s***, c***, c**k etc.

The community has been consulted and the word "dick" and "shyte" and the acronyms WTF, FFS, BS etc have been found to be acceptable and as such shall be deemed permissible in usage.

Attempts to circumvent the swear filter with terms with alternate spellings, or any usage of those words within another word OR an alteration of the swear word that may constitute the reader to understand that it is a swear word, will be deemed as a breach of swearing rule and a Saintsational warning will be issued. Sexually explicit posts will fall under the inappropriate post rule below.

COPYRIGHT POLICY

Due to copyright laws, when posting articles from any other website, please only post the URL (the link to the original article) - and no more a selected small portion no longer than one paragraph.

Breaches may result in a Saintsational warning.

Copyright claims will be forwarded to the poster.

MORE SEVERE PENALTY SECTION:

The following rules and breaches carry larger penalties.

INAPPROPRIATE POST RULE

There will be ZERO tolerance for any sexist, racist, ageist, homophobic, religiously or culturally offensive, or highly sexually explicit terms or commentary in the Fan Forum or Private Messages.

Such behaviour is a severe breach and an automatic ban of 1 week will be issued without warning.

Repeat offenders will have that ban effectively double each time (2 weeks, 1 month etc) for each repeat offence under this rule.

Serial offenders may be banned by Forum Administration.

PORNOGRAPHY AND SEXUALLY EXPLICIT MATERIAL

As a forum open to all ages, pornographic, or semi-pornographic images, inferences, references and anecdotes, are not permitted. Any such postings will constitute a permanent ban without warning.

THREATENING OR BULLYING BEHAVIOUR RULE

There will also be zero tolerance for any direct (or implied) physically threatening or bullying behaviours in the Fan Forum and Private Messages and such behaviour constitutes a breach of rules and will result in an automatic permanent ban from the Fan Forum either for the poster name, the e-mail address or the I.P. address or possibly all three. Any such posts in the Fan Forum or in Private Messages may also be reported by the administrators to both the State and Federal authorities under the current cyber-bullying laws. See below regarding the laws and penalties involved.

Please make yourselves aware of the seriousness of Cyber-Bullying:

http://www.humanrights.gov.au/cyberbull ... fact-sheet

Please make yourselves aware of the Victorian and Federal criminal penalties for cyber-bullying:

http://www.justice.vic.gov.au/home/safe ... rodies+law

http://www.lawstuff.org.au/vic_law/topi ... r-bullying

http://theconversation.com/bullies-bewa ... n-law-1767

SPAMMING RULE

Do not spam the forum board with multiple posts designed to disrupt the harmony of the board. This may include repeating a point of view over and over, when such posts cause the forum to descend into abuse.

Such disruption may be eligible for an official Saintsational warning, or a ban of what is deemed a suitable length, or account deletion - as decided by the moderators and / or administrator.

TROLL RULE

“Trolls” are defined as posters who have the goal to create friction and anger in our community.

Any poster, who has the aim to create friction and anger in our community may be eligible for an official Saintsational warning, or a ban of what is deemed a suitable length, or account deletion - as decided by the moderators and / or the administrator.

PRIVACY RULE

Do not post private details of other posters in the public forums of this Fan Forum, nor post your own private details. It is not appropriate to post private messages in public on Saintsational Forums.

Breach of this privacy rule will result in a 2 week ban and in extreme cases a higher level of ban will be decided on by the unanimous vote of all Moderators.

MULTIPLE IDENTITY RULE


Posters found to hold multiple forum identities and using them to add support to their own position within a forum argument, OR to undertake any activity that can be constituted as a breach of rules, will be penalised without any formal warning and with an ongoing permanent ban on all identities from the offending I.P. addresses, all associated e-mail addresses and of course all forum identities.

The moderators and administrators (through a majority vote) reserve the right to conclude that the multiple identity policy has been breached by posters that shows a pattern of behaviour that indicates that it is the one individual posting under two or more sign in usernames, even if the posters are posting from different I.P. addresses (by using different devices) or by using multiple I.P. addresses through I.P. masking.

OPPOSITION SUPPORTER RULE

Opposition supporters are welcome to post in a respectful manner and within forum rules, but should their goal be to disrupt our community, they will be banned immediately WITHOUT warning.

Posters ACCUSED of being opposition supporters can contact the moderation / administration team to prove their status as a St. Kilda fan and they will receive endorsement for the whole forum to see.

Continual taunting of a poster who has been deemed not to be an opposition supporter will result in a 2 week ban for the offending poster or posters.

ADMINISTRATION MATTERS:

EDITORIAL CONTRIBUTION DISCLAIMER

The editorial opinion or contributions of the individual posters in no way constitutes the view of the Saintsational website or it's fan forums, or it's administrators, moderators, or voluntary personnel.

GRIEVANCES

The moderators have an enormous task to read and assess posts and make their decisions based on the overall good of the community and purely based on the rules above. The moderators do consult with each other on most occasions, however clear breaches can be moderated unilaterally.

Posting grievances on a Saintsational forum regarding a warning (to you or received by another poster) is strictly forbidden and MAY constitute a Saintsational warning.

Please accept the umpire's decision and move on. If you feel you can prove that you did not breach the rules as outlined above, then PM all the moderators and explain your view WITHOUT abusing, threatening, accusing the moderator of bias or pointing out the actions of others! Please take responsibility for what you post and ensure that it is within the rules of Saintsational Fan Forum. If a moderator feels that your PM on this matter is inappropriate, they can issue an additional warning.

The Moderation team have the final say and are here to provide a fun environment for us to celebrate all things Saints related. Any abuse of a moderator will result in a Saintsational warning.

APPEALING A BAN

In the event that a poster has been unfairly or unjustly banned, the banned poster may e-mail their appeal to saintsationalentry@gmail.com for review and the appeals process will begin.

Bans will be listed in the Fan Forum. The banned poster can request an appeal process be started in the Administration Forum. If the administrators feel the appeal has any merit, it will be listed in the Administration Forum and promoted in Fan Forum to make the other members aware. The appeal will take the form of a POLL where members have the capability to vote anonymously to uphold or overturn the ban. For a ban to be overturned, a 2/3 majority against the ban must be achieved.
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Re: rules - time to revise them

Postby WellardSaint » Thu 22 Jun 2017 3:18am

Retrospective?
Does the Albino Elvis/Caucasian Cuz come back a week early?
We need new assistant coaches.
The current ones are underperforming. "Player development" is a phrase that means nothing at Seaford.
Who has developed? Who has gone backwards this year?
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Re: rules - time to revise them

Postby Jacks Back » Thu 22 Jun 2017 8:08am

BackFromUSA wrote:We shall take into account ALL opinions and then decide on what we feel is best for the health and happiness of the forum.

Does that include any posters who may be currently banned?
As president Peter Summers said:
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Re: rules - time to revise them

Postby stonecold » Thu 22 Jun 2017 9:39am

Do we refer to the new rules as: Winmargate????? ;-)
'Cause StoneCold Said So'!!!!!
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Re: rules - time to revise them

Postby dragit » Thu 22 Jun 2017 11:14am

Hey Simon, would you be able to briefly outline the parts of the old rules that you are wanting to change?

This might help people understand where you are heading without comparing the two sets of rules side by side to look for changes.
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Re: rules - time to revise them

Postby Enrico_Misso » Thu 22 Jun 2017 11:40am

Commenting on the performance of a Saints player / official is allowed. In cases where posters abuse or demean a Saints player / official / or their family, OR casts dispersions on their character and it is deemed by the moderators to be unreasonably offensive and inflammatory, then the moderators (if all moderators agree) can issue a Saintsational warning, or in extreme cases a 1 week ban of the offending poster.

So does that mean we can't call Malcolm Blight a useless lazy smug incompetent flawed character tool who put his hand out for a $1m just to improve his golf handicap?
Surely demeaning and character dispersing abuse like that is fully justified?
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Re: rules - time to revise them

Postby WellardSaint » Thu 22 Jun 2017 2:37pm

I refer to 1990 song called 'King of Wishful Thinking'
when referring to our current coach.
Is this 'abuse' or is it within the rules?
I need clarification to avoid a warning s'il- vous plait
We need new assistant coaches.
The current ones are underperforming. "Player development" is a phrase that means nothing at Seaford.
Who has developed? Who has gone backwards this year?
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Re: rules - time to revise them

Postby Gordo' » Thu 22 Jun 2017 2:55pm

BackFromUSA wrote:SWEAR RULE

the acronyms WTF, FFS, BS etc have been found to be acceptable and as such shall be deemed permissible in usage.

Attempts to circumvent the swear filter with terms with alternate spellings, or any usage of those words within another word OR an alteration of the swear word that may constitute the reader to understand that it is a swear word, will be deemed as a breach of swearing rule and a Saintsational warning will be issued.


i agree mate. that first sentence is just flowering common sense ffs! however, as a long suffering supporter of the mighty scunthorpe united, i'm a bit concerned about that second flowering paragraph! :roll:

long live the saints! long live the iron! :D


BackFromUSA wrote:INAPPROPRIATE POST RULE

There will be ZERO tolerance for any sexist, racist, ageist, homophobic, religiously or culturally offensive, or highly sexually explicit terms or commentary in the Fan Forum or Private Messages.


i'm very flowering happy to see that you've shown the good sense to leave those flowering soft...k drummers off that no-go list mate. ffs!!! they should just be flowering happy that they get to park in the handicapped spots!!! :mrgreen:
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Re: rules - time to revise them

Postby shrodes » Thu 22 Jun 2017 3:16pm

I've brought this up with you over PM before, but I'd like to see this rule enforced more

Only topics that directly relate to being a fan of the St. Kilda Football Club are allowed in this forum. Other forums such as an Opposition & General Sports Forum; Cheer Squad/Morrabbin Wing Forum, a General Forum, even an Administration Forum and the over 18's Animal Enclosure are all available for other topics and discussions.


Stuff like the Essendope thread should be in the Oppo forum.
Even if that forum is not as widely viewed, I'd prefer to keep the main forum with stuff at least tangentially related to the Saints.
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Re: rules - time to revise them

Postby saynta » Thu 22 Jun 2017 3:21pm

Gordo' wrote:
BackFromUSA wrote:SWEAR RULE

the acronyms WTF, FFS, BS etc have been found to be acceptable and as such shall be deemed permissible in usage.

Attempts to circumvent the swear filter with terms with alternate spellings, or any usage of those words within another word OR an alteration of the swear word that may constitute the reader to understand that it is a swear word, will be deemed as a breach of swearing rule and a Saintsational warning will be issued.


i agree mate. that first sentence is just flowering common sense ffs! however, as a long suffering supporter of the mighty scunthorpe united, i'm a bit concerned about that second flowering paragraph! :roll:

long live the saints! long live the iron! :D


BackFromUSA wrote:INAPPROPRIATE POST RULE

There will be ZERO tolerance for any sexist, racist, ageist, homophobic, religiously or culturally offensive, or highly sexually explicit terms or commentary in the Fan Forum or Private Messages.


i'm very flowering happy to see that you've shown the good sense to leave those flowering soft...k drummers off that no-go list mate. ffs!!! they should just be flowering happy that they get to park in the handicapped spots!!! :mrgreen:



:D :lol: 8-) :wink:
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Re: rules - time to revise them

Postby BackFromUSA » Thu 22 Jun 2017 8:59pm

dragit wrote:Hey Simon, would you be able to briefly outline the parts of the old rules that you are wanting to change?

This might help people understand where you are heading without comparing the two sets of rules side by side to look for changes.


Hopefully I got all of the changes in this lot. Any omission is accidental.


In summary:
- Reduced ban time after 3 warnings to 1 week (down from 2 which was down from a month)

- Repeat offenders now get escalating lengths of bans - doubles to 2 weeks then … if a 3rd ban within 12 months then a permanent ban (options are nic or e-mail or / & IP ban) or if it is a 3rd ban but not within the 12 month period, the ban period continues to double i.e. a month.

- You can comment on Saints players and officials but you can’t abuse, demean or cast dispersions on them or their family, poster can receive a warning or in extreme cases a 1 week ban.

- Posting on match days are emotionally charged but posts that are highly inappropriate, offensive, or inflammatory can be edited by mods and a 6 hour ban placed on the poster, and in extreme cases a 1 week ban.

And a more severe penalty section that includes:

- Zero tolerance for sexist, racist, ageist, homophobic, religious or culturally offensive, or highly sexually explicit terms or commentary in posts or PMs and the penalty is a 1 week ban (no warning)

- Any porn or porn or semi porn images, inferences, references, or anecdotes are not permitted and if posted result in a full ban.

- Direct or implied physical threatening or bullying in posts and PM result in a full ban.
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Re: rules - time to revise them

Postby BackFromUSA » Thu 22 Jun 2017 9:03pm

Enrico_Misso wrote:
Commenting on the performance of a Saints player / official is allowed. In cases where posters abuse or demean a Saints player / official / or their family, OR casts dispersions on their character and it is deemed by the moderators to be unreasonably offensive and inflammatory, then the moderators (if all moderators agree) can issue a Saintsational warning, or in extreme cases a 1 week ban of the offending poster.

So does that mean we can't call Malcolm Blight a useless lazy smug incompetent flawed character tool who put his hand out for a $1m just to improve his golf handicap?
Surely demeaning and character dispersing abuse like that is fully justified?


Blight is not a current Saint.
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Re: rules - time to revise them

Postby BackFromUSA » Thu 22 Jun 2017 9:04pm

WellardSaint wrote:I refer to 1990 song called 'King of Wishful Thinking'
when referring to our current coach.
Is this 'abuse' or is it within the rules?
I need clarification to avoid a warning s'il- vous plait


Ok within the rule
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Re: rules - time to revise them

Postby BackFromUSA » Sat 24 Jun 2017 1:37pm

Moved to announcements to try and get more feedback
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Re: rules - time to revise them

Postby kosifantutti » Mon 26 Jun 2017 3:54pm

It's not a rule as such but I would like to see the capability of embedding videos.

Also can we have the site set up so that links open up a new tab rather taking you out of Saintsational?
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Re: rules - time to revise them

Postby desertsaint » Mon 26 Jun 2017 4:05pm

kosifantutti wrote:It's not a rule as such but I would like to see the capability of embedding videos.

Also can we have the site set up so that links open up a new tab rather taking you out of Saintsational?

hear, hear. until we do we're mired in the 20th century mentality of letters to the editor.
If this is a supposed community, then this decision should be open to all, not refused because of one persons fears of embracing modern media.
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Re: rules - time to revise them

Postby BackFromUSA » Mon 26 Jun 2017 9:15pm

desertsaint wrote:
kosifantutti wrote:It's not a rule as such but I would like to see the capability of embedding videos.

Also can we have the site set up so that links open up a new tab rather taking you out of Saintsational?

hear, hear. until we do we're mired in the 20th century mentality of letters to the editor.
If this is a supposed community, then this decision should be open to all, not refused because of one persons fears of embracing modern media.


i can ask someone more techie than i whether the option exists re the new tab in phpBB

As for embedding video the answer is no based on what is posted in picture form already that we have to take down! We are not on 24/7 and would you be happy if this site was broadcasting porn or graphically violent videos for a few hours or even a day before it could be taken down?

Not scared re modern media - as I have my own social media platforms for my business and the difference is we can APPROVE anything prior to it being made public - more scared of what might get posted up without approval than here than on my company's social media and yet with that we retain approval rights
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Re: rules - time to revise them

Postby shrodes » Mon 26 Jun 2017 9:56pm

BackFromUSA wrote:i can ask someone more techie than i whether the option exists re the new tab in phpBB


Looks like it's possible with an extension at least.
https://www.phpbb.com/customise/db/extension/elonw/

Not familiar with your hosting setup or phpBB myself, but I'm a programmer so let me know there's any way I can help.

As for embedding video the answer is no based on what is posted in picture form already that we have to take down! We are not on 24/7 and would you be happy if this site was broadcasting porn or graphically violent videos for a few hours or even a day before it could be taken down?


There may be a way to only whitelist videos from particular sites - eg. afl.com.au which might be positive. But probably not worth the effort.
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Re: rules - time to revise them

Postby desertsaint » Mon 26 Jun 2017 10:45pm

BackFromUSA wrote:
desertsaint wrote:
kosifantutti wrote:It's not a rule as such but I would like to see the capability of embedding videos.

Also can we have the site set up so that links open up a new tab rather taking you out of Saintsational?

hear, hear. until we do we're mired in the 20th century mentality of letters to the editor.
If this is a supposed community, then this decision should be open to all, not refused because of one persons fears of embracing modern media.


i can ask someone more techie than i whether the option exists re the new tab in phpBB

As for embedding video the answer is no based on what is posted in picture form already that we have to take down! We are not on 24/7 and would you be happy if this site was broadcasting porn or graphically violent videos for a few hours or even a day before it could be taken down?

Not scared re modern media - as I have my own social media platforms for my business and the difference is we can APPROVE anything prior to it being made public - more scared of what might get posted up without approval than here than on my company's social media and yet with that we retain approval rights

it is still you deciding on behalf of everyone. i have never seen a pornographic image on here. i have seen some (very few) gruesome images which unlike videos are available to see the content without clicking play. so why allow images and not videos? if someone posts offensive material then suspend or ban them. i don't think it will be near the problem you fear. i am on a lot of forums and video embedding is not abused by members. it is part and parcel of modern forums. without it, and other abilities, this forum will continue to fail to attract and keep new members.
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Re: rules - time to revise them

Postby kosifantutti » Tue 27 Jun 2017 7:52am

Agree with desertsaint here. You could limit it to YouTube. Videos don't play automatically and you can do much worse with embedded pictures. See below. (Please don't ban me, I'm just illustrating a point.)
Image
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rules - time to revise them

Postby kosifantutti » Tue 27 Jun 2017 8:07am

Also, if you use Tapatalk to view the forum, it automatically embeds the videos and starts playing.

Image

And in about two years of being a mod here, I can't remember removing any pornographic or violent images.
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Re: rules - time to revise them

Postby dragit » Wed 28 Jun 2017 10:02pm

Most sound okay to me, not sure about the wording of this one…

BackFromUSA wrote:- Any porn or porn or semi porn images, inferences, references, or anecdotes are not permitted and if posted result in a full ban.


Not sure if a semi-porn inference or reference should result in a full ban?

This would have resulted in me being fully banned (maybe that's a good thing) after commenting about what was said in the Murphy-gate affair.

Benny Hill would also result in a full ban.

I have also asked about videos in the past, Simon I know you have flatly refused this one in the past but it would be a genuine enhancement to the site being able to watch an incident that is being discussed.

I can’t actually see the issue considering videos would fall under exactly the same rules as images.

From Kosi’s experience as a mod he said there basically no problems anyway?
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Re: rules - time to revise them

Postby BackFromUSA » Thu 29 Jun 2017 12:07am

If we can somehow limit the videos to just YouTube videos then I would allow it as YouTube has very strict restrictions re content
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Re: rules - time to revise them

Postby Numpty » Fri 30 Jun 2017 3:26pm

BackFromUSA wrote:If we can somehow limit the videos to just YouTube videos then I would allow it as YouTube has very strict restrictions re content

How do folks feel about taped phone conversations??? #makingsaintsationalembeddedlinksgrateagain
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Re: rules - time to revise them

Postby desertsaint » Fri 30 Jun 2017 3:49pm

BackFromUSA wrote:If we can somehow limit the videos to just YouTube videos then I would allow it as YouTube has very strict restrictions re content

if you can whitelist there's a lot you could add - afl.com, vimeo, etc - most would have even stricter guidelines than youtube.
"The starting point of all achievement is desire. "
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