SAINTSATIONAL RULE REVISION: WEEK 1

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SAINTSATIONAL RULE REVISION: WEEK 1

Post: # 1926420Post BackFromUSA »

Let's start with the essence of the forum and debate that first.

The current Fan Forum Introduction reads:

Saintsational Fan Forum is an unofficial St Kilda Football Club discussion forum open to all ages.

Only topics and posts that directly relate to the St Kilda Football Club are allowed in this forum.

Please be aware of the following rules before posting. Not being aware of a rule is not an excuse.

Please use the report feature <!> in any offending post that you feel breaches any rule below, so it can be assessed by moderators.


QUESTIONS TO DISCUSS:

- Do you want this to be a forum strictly discussing and debating St Kilda football issues OR a forum where posters go on endless bickering rampages that take up pages of the forum with personal attacks and where little or no footy is actually discussed?

- the forum is no longer OPEN to join and participate, but remains open to read to the whole world - do we change this and allow new / old members?

- Should 3 moderators to be appointed? Should this include or exclude the Administrator? (please note that moderators are appointed by the Administrator)

- Which posts should be assessed? Reported only (with an obligation for the moderator to also review context of prior posts) OR all posts (hundreds per day)?

- How would a ban be decided - unanimous or majority vote between moderators? Voting takes time - how do they communicate a ban is being considered?

- phpBB communicates the ban to the user e-mail address AND one week bans are listed in the ONE WEEK BAN section of the Admin Forum - is this enough?

- How do we protect moderators from unfair criticism, baiting and abuse? Every moderator has quit due to this when all they had was good intentions.

NOTE: WE SHALL DEBATE EACH RULE SECTION AT A TIME - WITH ONE WEEK OF DISCUSSION - SO PLEASE RESERVE COMMENTS ON OTHER SUBJECTS UNTIL THEN.


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Re: SAINTSATIONAL RULE REVISION: WEEK 1

Post: # 1926423Post BackFromUSA »

PLEASE ALSO NOTE:

We have many many readers. They are not BOTS (we have bots blocked)

We have 5500 nics registered.

Over 350 unique visitors in the past 15 minutes ...

In total there are 355 users online :: 7 registered, 4 hidden and 344 guests (based on users active over the past 15 minutes)
Most users ever online was 576 on 14 Aug 2021, 19:18

Registered users: agent86, BackFromUSA, chook23, Dr Spaceman, L.A. Saint, markp, Mr Magic, Saints58, stevie, wally, WellardSaint

Bottomline is that we are an interesting read but our registered users are scared or unwilling to post.


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Re: SAINTSATIONAL RULE REVISION: WEEK 1

Post: # 1926465Post asiu »

i'll play

- Do you want this to be a forum strictly discussing and debating St Kilda football issues OR a forum where posters go on endless bickering rampages that take up pages of the forum with personal attacks and where little or no footy is actually discussed?
some sort of middle ground
where
if , for example

theres a test match on
'n the boys wanna talk about it
they can talk about

if theres some sort of pandemic on
they can talk about it
if they wanna talk about it

if theres an election on
and someone wants to talk about it
well


the stuff that doesn't want to be talked about
will fall of the front page
... sort of natural like

the footy is still getting talked about regardless

(but i'll be f***ed if i know what those 245
unlogged in users have been reading all night)

given the above
what you actually need here
(given concerns for the tender hearted reader)

is a mechanism
to stamp Moderation Information
onto a thread thats not talking about footy

ie

NFT ... non footy talk
placed at the front of the thread title


readers are aware 'n
can read where they choose

contributors contribute on
as they were



note :
sending a three page thread on Covid
that was written on the Ham Forum
to the General Forum
(without leaving a Shadow Thread
at the very least)
is barry bonkers

: the G1'ers don't want your landfill
: the Hams are missing a thread with some 'action'
going on
: the Silent 245 can't read the G1

at least with a Shadow Thread
: the Hams can continue to contribute
even if they pop out by default in the G1
after doing so
: the Silent 245 have something else to read


the Shadow Thread
falls off the front page
in a time relating
to how much other action there is
... a bit natural like

same as a NFT branded thread would
if it was left where it was created


edit : the shadow thread could even be stickied
for a short time
(until the heat dissipated/in bulk posting periods)
Last edited by asiu on Tue 14 Sep 2021 10:59am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: SAINTSATIONAL RULE REVISION: WEEK 1

Post: # 1926466Post asiu »

the forum is no longer OPEN to join and participate, but remains open to read to the whole world - do we change this and allow new / old members?
yes




who cares about the readers
it's the writers who need looking after

writers write
: in this sort of place
via interaction with other writers

f*** the readers


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Re: SAINTSATIONAL RULE REVISION: WEEK 1

Post: # 1926467Post asiu »

(and i'd be the biggest reader in the place by miles)


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Re: SAINTSATIONAL RULE REVISION: WEEK 1

Post: # 1926468Post asiu »

- Should 3 moderators to be appointed? Should this include or exclude the Administrator? (please note that moderators are appointed by the Administrator)
appoint as many as ya want .. i reckon

(just as long as there's some DISASTER planning in place
and the Admin has a 2IC (preferably two)
ready to rock 'n roll)

if the Community are in sync with the Moderators
... things 'should' be easy

and numbers of Nods wouldn't be an issue


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Re: SAINTSATIONAL RULE REVISION: WEEK 1

Post: # 1926469Post asiu »

- Which posts should be assessed? Reported only (with an obligation for the moderator to also review context of prior posts) OR all posts (hundreds per day)?
reported posts
including review of context

PLUS
notification that the post is under review/ has been reviewed
(regardless of outcome)

and who made the report


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Re: SAINTSATIONAL RULE REVISION: WEEK 1

Post: # 1926470Post asiu »

- How would a ban be decided - unanimous or majority vote between moderators? Voting takes time - how do they communicate a ban is being considered?
give each Nod the power to ban / review / talk it through with
with their creed / flick a PM / take a poster on in the thread/ whatever floats their boat

: if they have a badge , let em polish it

example : if Nod 2 is online
and somethings OUT OF LINE
... let he/ she/ GT fix it , on the spot

then back em in

as long as ... each 'process' is noted in the Post
being reviewed or actioned
as it happens


example : IF , the 'communication' is so over the top
... let em remove it ... on the spot
as well as dishing out a months ban for being a d**khead

again , noting the action taken ... where the post was made
(along with every other move)

(and then IF that scenario ever happened

: store the deleted post
in the Admin Forum
for interested logged in community members
to read and pass their judgement on via comment)

also allowing the community to back their Nods in
(or not , as long as its done respectfully)


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Re: SAINTSATIONAL RULE REVISION: WEEK 1

Post: # 1926471Post asiu »

- phpBB communicates the ban to the user e-mail address AND one week bans are listed in the ONE WEEK BAN section of the Admin Forum - is this enough?
if the Admin Forum can be read by the un logged in
... something is wrong


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Re: SAINTSATIONAL RULE REVISION: WEEK 1

Post: # 1926472Post asiu »

- How do we protect moderators from unfair criticism, baiting and abuse? Every moderator has quit due to this when all they had was good intentions.
have a Nod for the Mods

thats all his/her job is

give that Nod ... multiple month banning powers
with a NO SECOND CHANCES MINDSET

that will fix that issue
quick smart


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Re: SAINTSATIONAL RULE REVISION: WEEK 1

Post: # 1926473Post asiu »

alright
done

gaz out


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Re: SAINTSATIONAL RULE REVISION: WEEK 1

Post: # 1926479Post BackFromUSA »

Thanks Gaz.


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Re: SAINTSATIONAL RULE REVISION: WEEK 1

Post: # 1926489Post Sanctorum »

BackFromUSA wrote: Mon 13 Sep 2021 6:51pm Let's start with the essence of the forum and debate that first.

The current Fan Forum Introduction reads:

Saintsational Fan Forum is an unofficial St Kilda Football Club discussion forum open to all ages.

The purpose of this forum is to enable St Kilda FC members and supporters to engage in reasonable and spirited debate on all matters pertaining to St Kilda FC and the AFL in general.

Only topics and posts that directly relate to the St Kilda Football Club and AFL are allowed in this forum.

Please be aware of the following rules before posting. Not being aware of a rule is not an excuse.

Please use the report feature <!> in any offending post that you feel breaches any rule below, so it can be assessed by moderators.




QUESTIONS TO DISCUSS:

- Do you want this to be a forum strictly discussing and debating St Kilda football issues OR a forum where posters go on endless bickering rampages that take up pages of the forum with personal attacks and where little or no footy is actually discussed? Football matters only for this forum, can always set up a separate forum for non football matters if there's a demand, but why bother?

- the forum is no longer OPEN to join and participate, but remains open to read to the whole world - do we change this and allow new / old members? Not sure why new members should be excluded - perhaps set up an application process managed by admin and moderators to become a member which would give scope to admit or reject

- Should 3 moderators to be appointed? Should this include or exclude the Administrator? (please note that moderators are appointed by the Administrator) Minimum of 2, in case of disagreement on assessment of post Administrator or his delegate has casting vote

- Which posts should be assessed? Reported only (with an obligation for the moderator to also review context of prior posts) OR all posts (hundreds per day)? Reported only - all would be too burdensome

- How would a ban be decided - unanimous or majority vote between moderators? Voting takes time - how do they communicate a ban is being considered? Offending post removed immediately. If one week ban no further correspondence, in serious case offender given opportunity to state why he/she should not be banned for longer period or permanently

- phpBB communicates the ban to the user e-mail address AND one week bans are listed in the ONE WEEK BAN section of the Admin Forum - is this enough? Yes

- How do we protect moderators from unfair criticism, baiting and abuse? Every moderator has quit due to this when all they had was good intentions. Moderators should be regarded the same way as umpires - total hands-off and anyone that does contravene this rule automatic 1 week ban for 1st offence etc

NOTE: WE SHALL DEBATE EACH RULE SECTION AT A TIME - WITH ONE WEEK OF DISCUSSION - SO PLEASE RESERVE COMMENTS ON OTHER SUBJECTS UNTIL THEN.
My 2 bobs worth noted in red BfUSA, I believe elaborating on the purpose of the forum in the introduction is worth considering....


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Re: SAINTSATIONAL RULE REVISION: WEEK 1

Post: # 1926497Post saynta »

Leave as is.


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Re: SAINTSATIONAL RULE REVISION: WEEK 1

Post: # 1926531Post Dis Believer »

Why not have the moderators be anonymous - nic becomes Mod 1, Mod 2, Mod 3 etc (favourting 3 mods, separate from administrator)

I think within reason, open up the forum to topical issues of the ban, as long as stuff stays within the allocated threads. If posters stray outside the thread topic, movce the post to the right thread. Stuff of no interest will fall off the front page quickly enough.

Bans graded, 1 day or 1 week, depending on nature of inappropriate conduct. Bans expire after 6 months. Outright offensive/objectionable material is removed, anything not posted in the correct thread is moved to the correct thread. Repeat posting in an inappropriate thread after 3 requests to desist (and moving to the correct thread) results in a one week holiday. Three 1-week holidays in 6 months is a perma-ban. Obvious trolling is instant perma-ban.

Open to new members.....

Oh, posts reported to be assessed, however if mods reading through forum spot something questionable, action should be commenced. Not to say everything has to be assessed, but a police patrol car doesn't drive straight past a crime in progress because no-one rang 000......


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Re: SAINTSATIONAL RULE REVISION: WEEK 1

Post: # 1926535Post sunsaint »

Sanctorum wrote: Tue 14 Sep 2021 11:29am
My 2 bobs worth noted in red BfUSA, I believe elaborating on the purpose of the forum in the introduction is worth considering....
agreed - especially when I recall the the essendope thread being on the main forum & the justification that it could stay because it was popular
SO clearly not just a saints only forum

The place cant stay locked away either - nothing to fear from new blood even tho I know mod wise it opens some cans of worms- but the forum cant be the little private domain for "some"

I can totally understand the readers vs posters point. I usually come here for information, especially during pivotal points in the year
But on occasions I get motivated enough to start a reply - cant tell you the number of times I have just let it go, mainly due to the fact that my "rational" approach doesnt seem to belong here.

Yes to more Mods - Would highly recommend the more the merrier
Could start with a public nomination & then a threshold vote ( say must achieve at least 5 seconds )
Once established from the voting process they remain anonymous

Conversely to more mods - just get rid of the permanent ban altogether & just leave the day, week (multiples) month (multiples of really bad offence )


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Re: SAINTSATIONAL RULE REVISION: WEEK 1

Post: # 1926537Post BackFromUSA »

Just FYI phpBB offers the following automated ban options:

1 day
7 day
2 weeks
1 month
Until —> set date (so could make it e.g 3 moths)

Permanent bans offered via e-mail, I.P. and Nic.


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Re: SAINTSATIONAL RULE REVISION: WEEK 1

Post: # 1926621Post asiu »

whats the definition of this Permanent Ban ?

(note : of which i am not a supporter of)

P ... on the ID
or
P ... on the ??


how does/would that work with an opened up forum


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Re: SAINTSATIONAL RULE REVISION: WEEK 1

Post: # 1926623Post asiu »

however if mods reading through forum spot something questionable, action should be commenced. Not to say everything has to be assessed, but a police patrol car doesn't drive straight past a crime in progress because no-one rang 000......
:P

good point


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Re: SAINTSATIONAL RULE REVISION: WEEK 1

Post: # 1926630Post BackFromUSA »

asiu wrote: Wed 15 Sep 2021 9:59am whats the definition of this Permanent Ban ?

(note : of which i am not a supporter of)

P ... on the ID
or
P ... on the ??


how does/would that work with an opened up forum
No definition yet.

Just saying what the options are in the forum phpBB software


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Re: SAINTSATIONAL RULE REVISION: WEEK 1

Post: # 1926631Post BackFromUSA »

asiu wrote: Wed 15 Sep 2021 10:02am
however if mods reading through forum spot something questionable, action should be commenced. Not to say everything has to be assessed, but a police patrol car doesn't drive straight past a crime in progress because no-one rang 000......
:P

good point
But sometimes the cops see someone jay walking and just let it go.

Should they pull you up and fine that person for jay walking?


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Re: SAINTSATIONAL RULE REVISION: WEEK 1

Post: # 1926642Post asiu »

file that decision , imo

into a
... whatever is best for the Forum ,
made by the Nod
(in their opinion)
(made on the fly)
as he/she happens to be driving past

thats the benefit
of allowing the Mods the right
to polish their badge

they can work with the flow of the place

a persistent jaywalker
of questionable intent
or ability to jaywalk with style
probably deserves a kick up the bum



elon said 'happiness is reality without expectation'

hard rules/hard interpretations of those rules
(in this instance)
are the expectations
of the above equation


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Re: SAINTSATIONAL RULE REVISION: WEEK 1

Post: # 1926730Post Wayne42 »

I'd leave the rules for discussion in week 1 as they are.

Another mod to share the load would be handy, i liked the idea of mods being anonymous.


The Saints are under review, will it make any difference to the underachievers ?
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Re: SAINTSATIONAL RULE REVISION: WEEK 1

Post: # 1926733Post saynta »

Wayne42 wrote: Wed 15 Sep 2021 7:44pm I'd leave the rules for discussion in week 1 as they are.
yep.


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Re: SAINTSATIONAL RULE REVISION: WEEK 1

Post: # 1926796Post asiu »

as long as the Report function
is de weaponised

i don't really care either

the dobbers toolkit
is where the dark arts flourish

fix that
then let the place heal


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