Vindication

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portosaint
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Vindication

Post: # 1721692Post portosaint »

I'll more than likely get shot, but oh well....

I think yesterdays performance really vindicates some posters on here, including myself, that have rightly questioned the baffling coaching of the first 4 weeks of the season. A game style which saw the team able to win plenty of ball yet still didnt give them an opportunity to actually win games. Brisbane aside (and we know where the Bears are at), we had no realistic chance of winning rds 2-4 even while dominating periods of the games.

This negative style brings indecision. Players who have an instinct to do one thing second guessing themselves because they are told they should do another.
It leads to skill errors - note how much better our ball use looked yesterday? (Still room for improvement obviously. Especially going inside 50)
It leads to a lack of confidence - players not being backed in to do what they do best and play their game.
It leads to the opponent knowing they are not really at threat of losing - the Giants knew it was game on yesterday and our pressure broke them down.
Overall it leads to poor team cohesion, and we start to inevitably question whether our guys have what it takes. We have some bright young talent.

Brandon White showed a tough opponent in Toby Greene what tough is yesterday.

Coff looked as composed as a 200 game player.

Ben Long bought that indigenous spark to the team - he inspires.

Hunter grabbed some really important loose balls in the last qtr.

Paddy showed he can kick a few if he gets a half decent look. He has a long way to go, but the improvement is there every week.

Mav... At his best we need him in the 22. A couple of his tackles were bone rattling. Still makes some 'look at me' errors at times.

Our defence stood together. Our midfield won large periods against a highly rated opponent. Hickey was really good.

The guys backed themselves and each other, and the game style allowed them to do that. They will take more out of yesterdays performance than if we had won a game playing that stifling, robotic football. There will be belief, and they know that their best is good enough.

I'm not sure anyone gets a kick out of bagging the St Kilda FC. I know I don't. But as paying members we have a right to question what every other person outside the club is also questioning. I fully understand the need for plans and structure at the elite level. I also understand it can be done in the right way and the wrong way.

That style will bring people through the gates and give us the opportunity to win more than we lose. I feel somewhat vindicated in my criticism of the coaches, because it is clear to see what a different game style can do. We looked talented, and that was both positive and pleasing.


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Re: Vindication

Post: # 1721702Post Yorkeys »

Hear! hear! Porto well written I say. Better late than never to admit error. Plenty of good signs yesterday.I have been moved to rename the neighbour's pit bulls: now they are Positive and Pleasing. The galah answers to umpy.


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Re: Vindication

Post: # 1721707Post CQ SAINT »

Glad you feel vindicated. The coaches really needed the boost you gave them and have no doubt have been reading every word. Incredibly, perhaps through injury, the selection committee got some decisions right and the recruiters might have gotten something right too, but its too early to tell so dont give up the barrage of whining and bickering yet. Seems to have had a really good effect. Keep up the great work and have a break this week you deserve it.


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Re: Vindication

Post: # 1721711Post skeptic »

I was gonna say... vindicated from what?

I don’t think there is a person on this forum that legitimately thought things were going well or wasn’t having major doubts on Richo’s coaching ability.

Some of us just didn’t think that all of:
- sack the coach, the assistants trainers etc
- get rid of the board completely
- trade every player on the list for whatever you can get for them
- relocate to Tasmania and the MCG

We’re legitimate, well thought out viable responses to our current predicament. The hysteria here has been something to behold.


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Re: Vindication

Post: # 1721720Post portosaint »

I've never called for any of that. Just a change in our game day approach, which gets howled down because us mere mortals don't understand... We don't get it.

I've stood by our young group, and I think they are glad they were able to go about it in a different way yesterday.

But yes, I still stand by my opinion that a different approach to how we were playing paid dividends.


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skeptic
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Re: Vindication

Post: # 1721756Post skeptic »

portosaint wrote:I've never called for any of that. Just a change in our game day approach, which gets howled down because us mere mortals don't understand... We don't get it.

I've stood by our young group, and I think they are glad they were able to go about it in a different way yesterday.

But yes, I still stand by my opinion that a different approach to how we were playing paid dividends.
Hi Porto, you’ve piqued my interest here...

Who on earth has argued that our game day approach didn’t need to be changed?

Blind Freddie could see that.

Even with yesterday’s performance, we’re still at Ross Lyon levels of scoring.


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Re: Vindication

Post: # 1721767Post desertsaint »

twas a hearty performance from the lads - but still error ridden with very poor delivery. our manic pressure managed to negate them enough to keep it even, along with their very poor conversion.
a long way to go and we still need to develop a more competitive gameplan and various different strategies to employ in situations.
we had three great wins last year - the hawks, giants, and richmond. we still stunk for most of the season.
the change in enthusiasm was just one step.


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portosaint
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Re: Vindication

Post: # 1721773Post portosaint »

skeptic wrote:
portosaint wrote:I've never called for any of that. Just a change in our game day approach, which gets howled down because us mere mortals don't understand... We don't get it.

I've stood by our young group, and I think they are glad they were able to go about it in a different way yesterday.

But yes, I still stand by my opinion that a different approach to how we were playing paid dividends.
Hi Porto, you’ve piqued my interest here...

Who on earth has argued that our game day approach didn’t need to be changed?

Blind Freddie could see that.

Even with yesterday’s performance, we’re still at Ross Lyon levels of scoring.
There are quite a lot of threads on here where the criticism of our coaching is just palmed off as being negative and not constructive. We are just armchair coaches, what would we know, etc. There is no room for criticism in some peoples eyes. There are also scathing attacks on some of our younger players which I don't find justified, and I believe that coaching was our main reason for this. I have been a staunch defender of giving some of our youngsters time, and I think my posting history would show this.

Surprisingly, my post was written with the intention of being largely positive. We are not world beaters and yes, our scoring is well down. I mentioned our ball use inside 50 in my post.

My whole point was and is, we looked so much better with a different game style. The guys took risks, the ball use was better, the kids got a chance to show they can play. They were generally exciting to watch and the performance speaks volumes for the way the coaches approached this game as opposed to the first four.

'Vindicated' might have been a strong word, but it is mind boggling to think that we MAY have snatched an extra win or at the very least have better percentage had our coaches identified this sooner. We all saw it... But what would we know?

I find it strange that out of all the positives in my post, people are hanging on one word. If anyone thinks the criticism of our coaching has not been construed as negative and just plain whining, they are reading a different forum to me.


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Re: Vindication

Post: # 1721781Post bigred »

I still reckon Richo is one month of terrible football away from the lemon and sars.

a Sub 15k crowd tells the same old story.

That effort from the Box against Geelong is inexcusable.


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Re: Vindication

Post: # 1721782Post saynta »

bigred wrote:I still reckon Richo is one month of terrible football away from the lemon and sars.

a Sub 15k crowd tells the same old story.

That effort from the Box against Geelong is inexcusable.
Don't think that Richo would be flavour of the month with the board at the moment. Unfortunately.


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Re: Vindication

Post: # 1721784Post bigred »

Get a few more 14,950 crowds at home games and it will stamp his papers.


"Now the ball is loose, it gives St. Kilda a rough chance. Black. Good handpass. Voss. Schwarze now, the defender, can run and from a long way".....
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Re: Vindication

Post: # 1721789Post silverhalo »

portosaint wrote:I'll more than likely get shot, but oh well....

I think yesterdays performance really vindicates some posters on here, including myself, that have rightly questioned the baffling coaching of the first 4 weeks of the season. A game style which saw the team able to win plenty of ball yet still didnt give them an opportunity to actually win games. Brisbane aside (and we know where the Bears are at), we had no realistic chance of winning rds 2-4 even while dominating periods of the games.

This negative style brings indecision. Players who have an instinct to do one thing second guessing themselves because they are told they should do another.
It leads to skill errors - note how much better our ball use looked yesterday? (Still room for improvement obviously. Especially going inside 50)
It leads to a lack of confidence - players not being backed in to do what they do best and play their game.
It leads to the opponent knowing they are not really at threat of losing - the Giants knew it was game on yesterday and our pressure broke them down.
Overall it leads to poor team cohesion, and we start to inevitably question whether our guys have what it takes. We have some bright young talent.

Brandon White showed a tough opponent in Toby Greene what tough is yesterday.

Coff looked as composed as a 200 game player.

Ben Long bought that indigenous spark to the team - he inspires.

Hunter grabbed some really important loose balls in the last qtr.

Paddy showed he can kick a few if he gets a half decent look. He has a long way to go, but the improvement is there every week.

Mav... At his best we need him in the 22. A couple of his tackles were bone rattling. Still makes some 'look at me' errors at times.

Our defence stood together. Our midfield won large periods against a highly rated opponent. Hickey was really good.

The guys backed themselves and each other, and the game style allowed them to do that. They will take more out of yesterdays performance than if we had won a game playing that stifling, robotic football. There will be belief, and they know that their best is good enough.

I'm not sure anyone gets a kick out of bagging the St Kilda FC. I know I don't. But as paying members we have a right to question what every other person outside the club is also questioning. I fully understand the need for plans and structure at the elite level. I also understand it can be done in the right way and the wrong way.

That style will bring people through the gates and give us the opportunity to win more than we lose. I feel somewhat vindicated in my criticism of the coaches, because it is clear to see what a different game style can do. We looked talented, and that was both positive and pleasing.
Great summary. I've always felt that we've got some REALLY good kids coming through but totally demoralised at what we'd seen this year before yesterday. If a change in the game plan brought about yesterday's performance, and it certainly looked that way, then I am so relieved and gives me a lot of heart.

I just wish we could get away from this mentality of always having to scrap and fight like hell to nullify the opponent - what will it take before we become the class outfit that needs to be nullified by the opposition. It is a very taxing game plan having to play that way and hard to keep it going for a whole season, especially for the kids. Just need to keep bringing class players in I suppose.

PS. To the guy on Level 2 Aisle 33 who has a habit of calling Ben Long f%^&g useless, can you please give it a rest now because he's shown you up to be a bit of a goose.


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Re: Vindication

Post: # 1721807Post St. Paul »

I think you're right about the taxing nature of the game style, silverhalo. I think it's what had us cooked in the last 7 games of last year. Younger bodies just couldn't keep it up for a whole season. Let's hope that a year on, we're better equipped to deal with the "mania" the style requires.

As I posted elsewhere, I've never seen the group as physically spent as it was after the final siren yesterday. It will be fascinating to see how they come up against the Hawks next week. I really felt for the team yesterday. To put in that sort of effort and not come away with the points must have been heartbreaking.


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Re: Vindication

Post: # 1721809Post saynta »

Bit of a goose?

I would report the prick and have him thrown out.


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Re: Vindication

Post: # 1721812Post The Fireman »

umm..what is an indigenous spark ?


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Re: Vindication

Post: # 1721814Post silverhalo »

The Fireman wrote:umm..what is an indigenous spark ?
Ben Long :D


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Re: Vindication

Post: # 1721815Post portosaint »

The Fireman wrote:umm..what is an indigenous spark ?
Really?


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Re: Vindication

Post: # 1721829Post longtimesaint »

bigred wrote:Get a few more 14,950 crowds at home games and it will stamp his papers.
You are quick to criticise but I was wondering if you went to the match and gave some support?
It’s when the club is under pressure as we have been that we need supporters to be there and support the team.


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Re: Vindication

Post: # 1721841Post David-Lee »

skeptic wrote:
portosaint wrote:I've never called for any of that. Just a change in our game day approach, which gets howled down because us mere mortals don't understand... We don't get it.

I've stood by our young group, and I think they are glad they were able to go about it in a different way yesterday.

But yes, I still stand by my opinion that a different approach to how we were playing paid dividends.
Hi Porto, you’ve piqued my interest here...

Who on earth has argued that our game day approach didn’t need to be changed?

Blind Freddie could see that.

Even with yesterday’s performance, we’re still at Ross Lyon levels of scoring.

Ahhh the old terrible Ross Lyon scoring days....like in 2007 when winning a game our lowest score was 82 and we had 6 wins scoring 100+...those were the bad times for sure.

2008 we won 10 games 100+ points...2009 11 wins 100+ points...etc etc. I know he had a defensive almost, " let's scrum" for every possession style but we won a fair bit as well as lost games under 80 points scored.


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Re: Vindication

Post: # 1721844Post David-Lee »

portosaint wrote:I'll more than likely get shot, but oh well....

I think yesterdays performance really vindicates some posters on here, including myself, that have rightly questioned the baffling coaching of the first 4 weeks of the season. A game style which saw the team able to win plenty of ball yet still didnt give them an opportunity to actually win games. Brisbane aside (and we know where the Bears are at), we had no realistic chance of winning rds 2-4 even while dominating periods of the games.

This negative style brings indecision. Players who have an instinct to do one thing second guessing themselves because they are told they should do another.
It leads to skill errors - note how much better our ball use looked yesterday? (Still room for improvement obviously. Especially going inside 50)
It leads to a lack of confidence - players not being backed in to do what they do best and play their game.
It leads to the opponent knowing they are not really at threat of losing - the Giants knew it was game on yesterday and our pressure broke them down.
Overall it leads to poor team cohesion, and we start to inevitably question whether our guys have what it takes. We have some bright young talent.

Brandon White showed a tough opponent in Toby Greene what tough is yesterday.

Coff looked as composed as a 200 game player.

Ben Long bought that indigenous spark to the team - he inspires.

Hunter grabbed some really important loose balls in the last qtr.

Paddy showed he can kick a few if he gets a half decent look. He has a long way to go, but the improvement is there every week.

Mav... At his best we need him in the 22. A couple of his tackles were bone rattling. Still makes some 'look at me' errors at times.

Our defence stood together. Our midfield won large periods against a highly rated opponent. Hickey was really good.

The guys backed themselves and each other, and the game style allowed them to do that. They will take more out of yesterdays performance than if we had won a game playing that stifling, robotic football. There will be belief, and they know that their best is good enough.

I'm not sure anyone gets a kick out of bagging the St Kilda FC. I know I don't. But as paying members we have a right to question what every other person outside the club is also questioning. I fully understand the need for plans and structure at the elite level. I also understand it can be done in the right way and the wrong way.

That style will bring people through the gates and give us the opportunity to win more than we lose. I feel somewhat vindicated in my criticism of the coaches, because it is clear to see what a different game style can do. We looked talented, and that was both positive and pleasing.
Porto whether we agree or not ( we do in that the game plan was / is poor)...you have an opinion and its values so keep sharing.

What the issue is with the 2 camps on here is that it's pretty common knowledge our game plan is garbage. You and I and any normal human understand the person in charge making the game plan is actually responsible for the game plan.

But the other guys....they throw dispersions....maybe it's the stars? Or maybe the players are ALL suddenly struggling simultaneously? Oh wait as minute...its one assistant coach who is at fault! People don't understand Richo has only been rebuilding the team for 4 seasons and the club in rebuild mode since 2013...give it 3 more seasons and we will be holding up the cup....Nope I know, it's the unbelief...you and I and those like us have failed the team because if we believed they would win.


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Re: Vindication

Post: # 1721860Post Yorkeys »

How many Saints members are there in greater Melbourne available Saturday 1.45pm ? vs GWS how many members in Western Sydney/Canberra will realistically come down. 15k attendance is ok % wise. Win more and play big member clubs the attendance figure will rise. Other than the rubbish of weeks 2,3 & 4 which seems to be due to indulging a ludicrous "game plan" plus injuries Saints are good entertainment. Long, Billings, Gresh, Coff, Clark, Paddy, Seb, Carslisle - maybe even a fit Mav and Hickey up and about will get them through the gate - Dunstan possibly a cult hero in the making. Just let the boys play and it will be fine. And what about that White - had his took his head, off lost 5 litres of blood and still gave Greeny Grass a very tough day at the office. White on Green = very light green. We R OK.


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Re: Vindication

Post: # 1721864Post Con Gorozidis »

OP has a point.
Player led change to the game plan reaped results.

The last few weeks the Kool Aid Brigade (KAB) were telling us the game plan was awesome just the players either weren't trying hard enough or couldn't execute.
Not really true.


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Re: Vindication

Post: # 1721867Post stonecold »

Con Gorozidis wrote:OP has a point.
Player led change to the game plan reaped results.

The last few weeks the Kool Aid Brigade (KAB) were telling us the game plan was awesome just the players either weren't trying hard enough or couldn't execute.


Not really true.
So you Say!!!!!


'Cause StoneCold Said So'!!!!!

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Re: Vindication

Post: # 1721868Post skeptic »

David-Lee wrote:Ahhh the old terrible Ross Lyon scoring days....like in 2007 when winning a game our lowest score was 82 and we had 6 wins scoring 100+...those were the bad times for sure.

2008 we won 10 games 100+ points...2009 11 wins 100+ points...etc etc. I know he had a defensive almost, " let's scrum" for every possession style but we won a fair bit as well as lost games under 80 points scored.
Fair enough... I must have just been thinking of finals then or at least grandfinals

point taken though


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Re: Vindication

Post: # 1721869Post The Fireman »

portosaint wrote:
The Fireman wrote:umm..what is an indigenous spark ?
Really?
yeah, just wondering..is it possible to have an anglo saxon spark ?


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