Some Shower Thoughts

[Sainter_Dad]

On Field Leadership:

With no forward structure to mention - it may be that the hole left by such a big personality in #12 is more telling than initially thought. Our forwards on Saturday had the following number of games:

43 Jade Gresham
7 Ben Long
25 Paddy McCartin
34 Nathan Wright
47 Blake Acres
67 Jack Billings
91 Josh Bruce
45 Average

That's an average of 45 games in the forward line and who among them has the personality of #12 or alternative Roughhead or Walker? Who is prepared to make them stand their position and take responsibility for their performances?

Our backs - performed relatively well - but even they only had a average of 95 games between them. That is probably about where we should be aiming - but maybe more the 150 range. Geary and Carlisle should be the leaders in this group - but game day - these guys leadership seems more lead by example than getting the troops together - and if they are having a stinker - so is the backline group

155 Nathan J. Brown
166 Jarryn Geary
127 Dylan Roberton
110 Jake Carlisle
1 Nick Coffield
126 Shane Savage
71 Jimmy Webster
5 Brandon White
95 Average

Our Midfield - 90 games average - way light - Steven and Armitage - are the leaders of this group - and they seem to do it relatively well - but I think we just lack the experience in this group of players

155 David Armitage
70 Luke Dunstan
116 Jack Newnes
47 Jack Sinclair
2 Rowan Marshall
84 Sebastian Ross
157 Jack Steven
90 Average

Off Field Leadership

As discussed in other posts, so I wont re-hash, we have struggled with promises given, and with our lack of success we, as supporters, hang our hopes on these promises - maybe if we were expecting a longer rebuild we would be more accepting of the scenario at the moment.

Opposition

Brisbane - 1st game of the season - they are not as bad as people first expected - they have had a dig in every game they have played and been very competitive
North - This was their grand final - they wanted to own Good Friday - they turned up - we didn't
Adelaide - 'Nuff said

Age v Experience

We do not have the luxury of developing our players (mostly forwards) in the VFL. Teams like Hawthorn do not expose their 18yos to the 'big stuff' until they have learned their craft, and even if they do - they are not the spearhead and 'great white hope'. Paddy, if playing at Hawthorn or Geelong, would take the 2nd or 3rd defender, and grow at the tutelage of Roughy or Hawkins - not be thrown in as the player to take the #1 defender. He would have been allowed to grow into his role and his body - Instead we 'had' to play essentially an ill prepared kid against seasoned men - and in he case of Paddy - to his detriment.

Trying to make players what they are not

Maybe Billings is a soft outside player - with confidence - he is an elite kick (well he recruited as that) - why does he 'have' to play midfield? Play him where he will excel. Acres does not need to be a high half forward - use him to get the ball from the midfield to the forwards in a Lenny Hayes role. We do not need 22 Utility Players - we need some - but leave some of the specialists as that - we lambasted Dal for being soft - but he was silky when allowed to do what he did best - we should not be trying to mould the players - we should be concentrating on their strengths.

Game Plan

Is it too taxing on the players? Do we need to be innovative and maybe leave a forward in the 50? It would give the players a 'get out kick' as we come through the middle and a target for them to head to - after 2 or 3 goals in a game the opposition will be forced to cover this player, and we can play the game on our terms - we have good forwards, they just lack confidence inside the 50 - Build the game around our strengths - not reactionary to the Bulldogs and Tigers.

/end rant

[iwantmeseats]

Great post, crap I post is a "rant".
Game plan? Do we really have one? Dosen't seem like it to my eye.

[Zed]

A couple of good points there.
I agree we have failed badly in developing players - or as you say, trying to make players something they are not. So many of our draft picks come in showing promise in year 1 and then plateau and even go backward in year 2 onwards.
Trying to reinvent every player as an inside pressure player has failed. We have drafted some talented footballers and turned them into confused and unsure players, lacking in confidence.
Pressure is our game plan. Sadly, pressure is not a game plan.

[sunsaint]

Pressure is our game plan. Sadly, pressure is not a game plan.

agree with this whole heartedly - its just another skill you bring to the field
If you are relying on pressure turnovers as choatic as they are then its lap of gods stuff
You MUST win more contested footy than the opposition and given the random nature of an oval ball ping ponging & bouncing round - then some days you win some you lose

As for us still being a young side - on paper it might make a case for excusing the side and the best is still to come
However I would say our better name players are above 50 games and we should really be able to compare them with the games best
Im a massive fan of Acres - but I can still see the factors in his game that frustrate coach

[Scollop]

Good op.

Some of us were crying out for Nick to step down as captain 3-4 years ago. The leadership vacuum and lack of experience is the price you pay for having Rooy as the official captain from 2014 onward. Once we got rid of BJ and Dal, there was no going back. We had to rebuild whether we liked it or not. Part of the succession planning had to involve giving the captaincy to new blood and perhaps rotating it amonst guys willing to put their hand up.

Although some guys like Armo and Gears and Jack Steven were part of the leadership group, it is totally different when you are officially named as captain and you serve in that role and you captain on field in the heat of battle, instead of leaving it up to someone else. We had Joey, Gilbo, Chips, and Dempster all out there along with the most dominant voice of Rooy, for too many of the last few years, instead of the younger brigade leading the charge.

After Watters got the arse it seemed we just hung on to too many remnants of the team that was assembled in the GT period from 2001-2004. As far as succession planning for the taem line up and game plan, we also failed. For goodness sake, we were still playing Rooy as the main forward up until he retired. Great future planning Saints

[Con Gorozidis]

Must have been a long shower

[SaintPav]

Must have been a long shower

Too much information if you get my meaning

[Con Gorozidis]

Must have been a long shower

Too much information if you get my meaning

I'm worried about the water bill.