Carlisle for Captain

[groupie1]

Throwing it out there for debate:

Pros, as I see them:
- get the best out of him
- maybe rock the boat a bit and raise expectations of other players
- signal a new era, a secondary rebuild
- allows the club to gently drop Gears and Armo etc back to the 2s, and into retirement
- who else

Cons
- Could be an unmitigated disaster

Discuss

[Joffa Burns]

Easily in our best two players but far too petulant to be a leader.

[oh when the]

He comes from a Club that expects /demands/knows success. About time the Saints boat was rocked.

[The Fireman]

Hamill

[SaintPav]

[supersaints]

Carlisle would not be a good Captain
Believe it it not Gears fits the Captain class , most posters seem to think you make your best players Captain but as
I've posted previously about the book ."the Captain class" ... it's a well researched and worth a read

After ten years of research it showed the most sucessful teams ever in sport had the same type of captain and NEVER the teams best player

Here's what all this research found ALL the captains had ALL these traits without exception

"The sixteen leaders who make up the Captain Class were never the most skilled, nor were they paragons of sportsmanship. They were often role players, allergic to the spotlight, and famously inarticulate. In short, they will challenge your assumptions of what inspired leadership looks like."

Seven traits
1. They are relentless.
2. They play to the limits of the rules.
3. They do thankless jobs.
4. They communicate in a 'low-key, practical, and democratic' way.
5. They motivate through nonverbal displays.
6. They know when to stand up for their convictions.
7. They are in total control of their emotions.

[Con Gorozidis]

Carlisle is the only one who shows any mettle when we are losing. Only bloke who seems to actually care and stand up to the opposition.

[Spinner]

Did anyone see Footy Classified - they got stuck into Carlisle for on field behaviour.

First time I've seriously questioned the merit of this show - what a weird take on our plight. Carlisle the least of our worries.

[magnifisaint]

A captain needs to have some talent. Geary doesn't have any

[parkeysainter]

Did anyone see Footy Classified - they got stuck into Carlisle for on field behaviour.

First time I've seriously questioned the merit of this show - what a weird take on our plight. Carlisle the least of our worries.

The guy is passionate but is also a bit NQR. His attitude can look bad on field at times but only very rarely. He is frustrated and wants to win. Gun footballer though and I like his mongrel.

He is just a 25 year old footy player. He will never be a rocket scientist or social worker.

[Spinner]

Did anyone see Footy Classified - they got stuck into Carlisle for on field behaviour.

First time I've seriously questioned the merit of this show - what a weird take on our plight. Carlisle the least of our worries.

The guy is passionate but is also a bit NQR. His attitude can look bad on field at times but only very rarely. He is frustrated and wants to win. Gun footballer though and I like his mongrel.

He is just a 25 year old footy player. He will never be a rocket scientist or social worker.

Yeah agree with this. But what the last 3 games have shown me are that Carlisle is such a class above the rest of the team at the moment.... Kicking skills, impact on game, marking... he is a very good footballer.

What concerns me is this maybe 'fear' of moving him forward for a whole game? Not sure if best, but why couldn't we try it? Hopefully the fact that he only wants to play back isn't a consideration - the tail should wag the dog.

[Moods]

He comes from a Club that expects /demands/knows success. About time the Saints boat was rocked.

Surely you're joking????

Bombers historically are no doubt far more successful than Saints. However the era that Carlisle has started playing with bombers, they were a basketcase and had to resort to cheating to find a way to be competitive,

Carlisle is your classic NON captain. Great player but does not lead abd drops his head when things aren't going to plan, both personally and team wise.

[stevie]

Maybe he would relish the responsibility?

[wally]

Lenny, actually do we have any competitive warriors/beasts?

[groupie1]

I would liken a Carlisle captaincy to a Hamill captaincy or a Tony Shaw captaincy. The post above about the qualities of a captain:
1. They are relentless.
2. They play to the limits of the rules.
3. They do thankless jobs.
4. They communicate in a 'low-key, practical, and democratic' way.
5. They motivate through nonverbal displays.
6. They know when to stand up for their convictions.
7. They are in total control of their emotions.

Great post.

What I suggest may be is becoming captain will give him new skills, i.e. no. 7 and 6 above, which are the two he clearly doesn't fit the mold in.
And, we see some successful captains at the mo who fail at 5,6, 7 above: namely, Tex Walker

Plus, I don't want him captain because he is our best player (though he's among them). That's not one of the reasons I propose it. I agree lesser players make better captains. But, come on, Carlisle is NOT Lance Franklin. He's good. But not an all time great.

[fugazi]

Carlisle is a really good player....but is responsible for one of the dumbest acts anyone has done anywhere?
Definitely not captain material....one day may be in the leadership group if he grows up a bit.

[supersaints]

I would liken a Carlisle captaincy to a Hamill captaincy or a Tony Shaw captaincy. The post above about the qualities of a captain:
1. They are relentless.
2. They play to the limits of the rules.
3. They do thankless jobs.
4. They communicate in a 'low-key, practical, and democratic' way.
5. They motivate through nonverbal displays.
6. They know when to stand up for their convictions.
7. They are in total control of their emotions.

Great post.

What I suggest may be is becoming captain will give him new skills, i.e. no. 7 and 6 above, which are the two he clearly doesn't fit the mold in.
And, we see some successful captains at the mo who fail at 5,6, 7 above: namely, Tex Walker

Plus, I don't want him captain because he is our best player (though he's among them). That's not one of the reasons I propose it. I agree lesser players make better captains. But, come on, Carlisle is NOT Lance Franklin. He's good. But not an all time great.

There was only one finalist in the best teams from the AFL and they were about the fourteenth best team in the book.. Jock Mchale was coach can't remember who the Captain was...

From what Ive seen of Carlisle he ain't the sharpest tool in the shed ... Good Captain material wouldnt refuse any role (like he did at essendope
He let his s teammates and the club down snorting Coke... hardly Captain material IMO...

[Sainternist]

Throwing it out there for debate:

Pros, as I see them:
- get the best out of him
- maybe rock the boat a bit and raise expectations of other players
- signal a new era, a secondary rebuild
- allows the club to gently drop Gears and Armo etc back to the 2s, and into retirement
- who else

Cons
- Could be an unmitigated disaster

Discuss

Surely, you jest?

He's not even in the leadership group. This guy would have to show that he has leadership qualities first.

[groupie1]

Snorting coke to camera doesn't make him disqualified. Jesus... how many of these footballers do you think are saints? Or geniuses?

I saw his interview owning his petulant actions on the field last week. Impressive.
I saw his return after his year out working hard to make an impression.

Ben Cousins captained the Eagles to a flag (and yes I know he wasn't actually captain... but we all know he was)
Wayne Carey captained the Kangas to a couple flags. A bigger d**khead has never graced a footy field.
Tony Shaw

Michael Voss was a GUN, arguably the Bears' best in that team. Good players don't make good captains?

I say there are exceptions to most of these rules.

I say becoming captain turned Lenny Hayes into a better footballer. I say it didn't work for Robert Harvey, or Sachin Tendulkar.

Viv Richards was no less successful than Clive Lloyd.

I'm interested in a really decent argument against the idea, if, say, a decision was made on Gears. Coz I think he'd become a better footballer and leader, the team would walk taller and play nastier, and I don't see an alternative natural leader.

[groupie1]

Oh... and I also reckon he'd make an awesome mentor to Marshall, White, Coffs, Battle, Logan, Goddard

[Sainter_Dad]

Hamill

Okay - but only for 2 weeks

[saynta]

Brown for mine. He was a filth vice captain wasn't he?

[groupie1]

Maybe a little long in the tooth, though

[Moods]

Snorting coke to camera doesn't make him disqualified. Jesus... how many of these footballers do you think are saints? Or geniuses?

I saw his interview owning his petulant actions on the field last week. Impressive.
I saw his return after his year out working hard to make an impression.

Ben Cousins captained the Eagles to a flag (and yes I know he wasn't actually captain... but we all know he was)
Wayne Carey captained the Kangas to a couple flags. A bigger d**khead has never graced a footy field.
Tony Shaw

Michael Voss was a GUN, arguably the Bears' best in that team. Good players don't make good captains?

I say there are exceptions to most of these rules.

I say becoming captain turned Lenny Hayes into a better footballer. I say it didn't work for Robert Harvey, or Sachin Tendulkar.

Viv Richards was no less successful than Clive Lloyd.

I'm interested in a really decent argument against the idea, if, say, a decision was made on Gears. Coz I think he'd become a better footballer and leader, the team would walk taller and play nastier, and I don't see an alternative natural leader.

the argument against is he can lift his f***** head when the team is getting beat and when he's getting beat or his opponent has taken mark against him.
This argument that he has a bit of mongrel in him??? Comes from where exactly??? It reminds me of the myth that the G-Train was tough. Softest big man ever, but he played with injuries so everyone thought he was tough.

[repta]

Really?
This is the bloke that sooked so much that Essendon wanted him to play forward he walked out.
The same guy that at the first sign of trouble his body language spells doom and gloom.

Reminds me of Goddard in his approach. Great player not captain material.