Is Hickey's latest contract to blame for his form slump?

[Drake Huggins]

No one can deny that Tom Hickey had an excellent 2016 season. At last, he showed he could realise his enormous potential and justify the draft pick we spent on him. It looked as though we had the ruckman we needed, having traded Ben McEvoy out. What's happened?

One theory is that his contract is partially to blame. At the end of 2016 he signed a new contract/extension that made him, according to 3AW, the second or third highest player on our list. At that time there was some justification. Great season, where he was considered one of the best ruckmen in the competition, some handy scalps taken, and a number of clubs sniffing around. They locked him up and they were right to do so.

What has followed has been as disappointing as it is disastrous. A combination of injury, bad luck and poor form have seen him hardly play senior football since. We all remember the Essendon game last year, don't we? Hopefully, that was his nadir. Many contend the third man up rule has cruelled him. I beg to differ. Sure, it has had an impact, but good players and coaches constantly meet and solve challenges. Other clubs seem to have overcome the rule change.

It's not uncommon for people to drop off after signing the lucrative contract. Having done all the hard work, it's time to enjoy the fruits of one's labour, so it would seem. In a game as demanding as AFL, the slightest drop in intensity, discipline and preparation can be fatal to your career. I'm not saying Tom stopped trying, I'm speculating of course. It has been a stunning fall from grace when he's gone from number one to having Rowan Marshall picked ahead of him as an emergency with Billy under an injury cloud.

There's plenty of anecdotal evidence that shows the filthy lucre has a less than positive aspect for some. Frank Marchesani? A first year star for Carlton. Left for more at Fitzroy and soon disappeared. The late PHIL Walsh. Best first year player in the league, then got caught in the filth, tiggy pay wars and ended his career at the Brisbane Bears having been labelled an underachiever. Raines and Richardson at Essendon? Also ended up at the league's recycling centre, the Bears as well.

I hope he comes back. A fit and firing Hickey circa 2016, would improve our team enormously. He's too young and talented to be thrown on the scrap heap. I doubt you'd get much for him in a trade. The possibility hardly caused a ripple of interest during last year's trade period. So what's the solution. With Billy struggling physically, is it the time to show faith in him and give him a few games to show us what he's got? On sheer ability he's light years ahead of Billy and on experience he's way ahead of Marshall and Pierce.

It does raise the concern about the coach's puzzling contract extension last year as well. Could it be the intensity, passion and effort has been dialled back a fraction in the knowledge that, financially at least, his future is guaranteed for the next three years? Lewis Pierce, Paddy as well? Discuss.

[stonecold]

No one can deny that Tom Hickey had an excellent 2016 season. At last, he showed he could realise his enormous potential and justify the draft pick we spent on him. It looked as though we had the ruckman we needed, having traded Ben McEvoy out. What's happened?

One theory is that his contract is partially to blame. At the end of 2016 he signed a new contract/extension that made him, according to 3AW, the second or third highest player on our list. At that time there was some justification. Great season, where he was considered one of the best ruckmen in the competition, some handy scalps taken, and a number of clubs sniffing around. They locked him up and they were right to do so.

What has followed has been as disappointing as it is disastrous. A combination of injury, bad luck and poor form have seen him hardly play senior football since. We all remember the Essendon game last year, don't we? Hopefully, that was his nadir. Many contend the third man up rule has cruelled him. I beg to differ. Sure, it has had an impact, but good players and coaches constantly meet and solve challenges. Other clubs seem to have overcome the rule change.

It's not uncommon for people to drop off after signing the lucrative contract. Having done all the hard work, it's time to enjoy the fruits of one's labour, so it would seem. In a game as demanding as AFL, the slightest drop in intensity, discipline and preparation can be fatal to your career. I'm not saying Tom stopped trying, I'm speculating of course. It has been a stunning fall from grace when he's gone from number one to having Rowan Marshall picked ahead of him as an emergency with Billy under an injury cloud.

There's plenty of anecdotal evidence that shows the filthy lucre has a less than positive aspect for some. Frank Marchesani? A first year star for Carlton. Left for more at Fitzroy and soon disappeared. The late PHIL Walsh. Best first year player in the league, then got caught in the filth, tiggy pay wars and ended his career at the Brisbane Bears having been labelled an underachiever. Raines and Richardson at Essendon? Also ended up at the league's recycling centre, the Bears as well.

I hope he comes back. A fit and firing Hickey circa 2016, would improve our team enormously. He's too young and talented to be thrown on the scrap heap. I doubt you'd get much for him in a trade. The possibility hardly caused a ripple of interest during last year's trade period. So what's the solution. With Billy struggling physically, is it the time to show faith in him and give him a few games to show us what he's got? On sheer ability he's light years ahead of Billy and on experience he's way ahead of Marshall and Pierce.

It does raise the concern about the coach's puzzling contract extension last year as well. Could it be the intensity, passion and effort has been dialled back a fraction in the knowledge that, financially at least, his future is guaranteed for the next three years? Lewis Pierce, Paddy as well? Discuss.

Your still leaving out the 'third man up' rule change, Tom has been severely effected by this!!!!!

Don't under estimate, just because you don't understand!!!!!

Again though, you are quoting rubbish media reports to drive your argument!!!!!

As my old girl used to say, newspapers made good s*** paper!!!!!

[nw7]

He has hardly played. No opportunity to get back in form, we must play him and give him 3-5 weeks. His bad day is still better than Billy's good days. He had an absolute shocker against Bombers last year however the whole Team did, other than that he hasn't had a chance to regain his 2016 form.

[skeptic]

IMO there is one simple rule in football that the St.Kilda has struggled to grasp... and that is that players generally tend to play better with consistency

Obviously there are many exceptions to this as none of this stuff is an exact science but generally very few players that aren’t clearly top 22 just walk into a team and play their best from day dot.

I don’t remember when Tom last played 5 games in a row with the opportunity and backing to find his groove and get better over time.
In fact we seem to do the opposite... focus on a few particular players and give them limited opportunities when th everything on the line.

I don’t see why we have to choose btw Hickey, Longer and Marshall... Billy has had a rough start. What’s wrong with giving him a spell to build up his fitness and giving Tom a run.

Doubt it will happen though

[stonecold]

He has hardly played. No opportunity to get back in form, we must play him and give him 3-5 weeks. His bad day is still better than Billy's good days. He had an absolute shocker against Bombers last year however the whole Team did, other than that he hasn't had a chance to regain his 2016 form.

The VFL is opportunity to find form and Tom has constantly failed at that level!!!!!

So, how is he supposed to go well at AFL level, the game he played against the Bombers was commonly recognised as the worst game ever played in a saints jumper!!!!!

[spert]

He has hardly played. No opportunity to get back in form, we must play him and give him 3-5 weeks. His bad day is still better than Billy's good days. He had an absolute shocker against Bombers last year however the whole Team did, other than that he hasn't had a chance to regain his 2016 form.

The VFL is opportunity to find form and Tom has constantly failed at that level!!!!!

So, how is he supposed to go well at AFL level, the game he played against the Bombers was commonly recognised as the worst game ever played in a saints jumper!!!!!

He had a few mates in that game!

[skeptic]

He has hardly played. No opportunity to get back in form, we must play him and give him 3-5 weeks. His bad day is still better than Billy's good days. He had an absolute shocker against Bombers last year however the whole Team did, other than that he hasn't had a chance to regain his 2016 form.

The VFL is opportunity to find form and Tom has constantly failed at that level!!!!!

So, how is he supposed to go well at AFL level, the game he played against the Bombers was commonly recognised as the worst game ever played in a saints jumper!!!!!

The problem with that logic is that that same standard should be applied to everybody as opposed to just a few players.

Being a local, I’ve watched a lot Sandy over the last few years... Longer has never exactly been a star down there and to be honest, Holmes was pbly the best performed of them all.

Another problem is that player development doesn’t always or even often work in a linear style like that. Sometimes promoting a player to the seniors can lead to their motivation improving, or dropping a player to Sandy can reinforce that they have to follow the same team rules as everyone else.

If your Tom Hickey, and your looking at the fact that other players are promoted ahead of you, get more chances to perform, have a higher tolerance for a lesser performance and are chosen even if hurt/lacking fitness...
Does that motivate you more or give you cause to drop your head and think why bother?

SCSS - honest question... respecting that you rate Longer more than Hickey, based on what you’ve seen of both... do you really feel that both Hickey and Longer are being held to the same standard?

[SaintPav]

Frank left Fitzroy for the scumbaggers? No?

[saintsRrising]

Your still leaving out the 'third man up' rule change, Tom has been severely effected by this!!!!!

That does not explain his slump in his effectiveness around the ground, and at bounces once the ball has been bounced.

Something is seriously adrift, and coaching has to at least be part of the reason for this slump.

[spert]

Your still leaving out the 'third man up' rule change, Tom has been severely effected by this!!!!!

That does not explain his slump in his effectiveness around the ground, and at bounces once the ball has been bounced.

Something is seriously adrift, and coaching has to at least be part of the reason for this slump.

Toms' form slump- more like a coach disinterest. Should try any other club.

[Trev from the Bush]

Frank left Fitzroy for the scumbaggers? No?

Correct.

Fastest thing ever seen on two legs at the Lions, slowed down considerably by the weight of 50 cent pieces filling his pockets.

[Drake Huggins]

Frank left Fitzroy for the scumbaggers? No?

My bad. You're right of course.

[Wayne42]

Hickey is a spud, Pierce is a spud, Longer is a spud.

Let's hope Marshall has some ability, otherwise, we'll have to start again with our ruck stocks.

[stonecold]

He has hardly played. No opportunity to get back in form, we must play him and give him 3-5 weeks. His bad day is still better than Billy's good days. He had an absolute shocker against Bombers last year however the whole Team did, other than that he hasn't had a chance to regain his 2016 form.

The VFL is opportunity to find form and Tom has constantly failed at that level!!!!!

So, how is he supposed to go well at AFL level, the game he played against the Bombers was commonly recognised as the worst game ever played in a saints jumper!!!!!

The problem with that logic is that that same standard should be applied to everybody as opposed to just a few players.

Being a local, I’ve watched a lot Sandy over the last few years... Longer has never exactly been a star down there and to be honest, Holmes was pbly the best performed of them all.

Another problem is that player development doesn’t always or even often work in a linear style like that. Sometimes promoting a player to the seniors can lead to their motivation improving, or dropping a player to Sandy can reinforce that they have to follow the same team rules as everyone else.

If your Tom Hickey, and your looking at the fact that other players are promoted ahead of you, get more chances to perform, have a higher tolerance for a lesser performance and are chosen even if hurt/lacking fitness...
Does that motivate you more or give you cause to drop your head and think why bother?

SCSS - honest question... respecting that you rate Longer more than Hickey, based on what you’ve seen of both... do you really feel that both Hickey and Longer are being held to the same standard?

No, they are not, powers that be are of the opinion the game has gone past Tom (rule changes) and deep down I think tom knows it too!!!!!

[Sainternist]

I thought Hickey was an absolute certainty to come into the side this week. I'm happy for Marshall, but he's going up against one of the better ruckmans in the league. It's a tough ask for the young fella.

[stonecold]

I thought Hickey was an absolute certainty to come into the side this week. I'm happy for Marshall, but he's going up against one of the better ruckmans in the league. It's a tough ask for the young fella.

If you thought that (Hickledik in), your listening to the wrong people!!!!!

I'll tell you another secret, Pierce was next in line!!!!!

[skeptic]

Do you think that’s reasonable POV SCSS?
Right him off... don’t give him a go

[stonecold]

Do you think that’s reasonable POV SCSS?
Right him off... don’t give him a go

As I've stated many times before, the change in ruck rule has really effected Tom and he hasn't been able to adapt!!!!!

[skeptic]

Do you think that’s reasonable POV SCSS?
Right him off... don’t give him a go

As I've stated many times before, the change in ruck rule has really effected Tom and he hasn't been able to adapt!!!!!

Sure.

I guess what I’m getting at and it’s a personal opinion is that disappointed that would support a very clear bias / standard in treatment that extends beyond just the 3rd man up rule as many have pointed out before.

But on the larger scale, IMO it illustrates the difference btw good coaches and mediocre ones... do you think guys like Clarko give up on talented players that have deficits in a particular aspect of their game or do they find get the best out of them, utilise their strengths and develop them.

These kind of close minded, knee-jerk opinions are rarely on point and scream this is too hard so I won’t try through fear of failure. And in Hickey’s case it’s actually bordering on sabotage. In terms of him not being able to adapt... he hasn’t really even given the chance. Not the same way Billy has who has played just as many average or worse games.

It’s not a good way to build a positive club culture.

[spert]

The ball is in Tom's court- time to put some big games in at Sandy, and Richo will have to consider him. Without pressure from Sandy(as per last season ) the seniors know they can get away with just doing enough. The Sandy Saints need to push hard for selection.

[Drake Huggins]

Tom had a brilliant 2016. What affected him far more than the third man up myth, was injury. Some major ones and some niggles that effectively destroyed his 2017. Why doesn't anyone acknowledge this? He started last year in good fashion, then was injured. Upon his return, TMBK gave him no chance. Went straight back to his love child, LiaBillytee.

It's a disturbing aspect of TMBK's coaching that he seems to favour the average moderately skilled players above those who show a bit of flair. Witness his bizarre management of Acres and Dunstan. It took the psychologist to help Dunstan recover his form, with Luke openly stating he ignored the coaches! Poor career move, Luke.

Had TMBK shown the same faith in Tom that he did in boat ballast Billy last year, I think things would be very different right now. Last year Tom was almost broken by injury and TMBK did his best to finish the job. If Tom doesn't get back it will be scandalous. Like Paddy, from what I've seen, Tom is bereft of confidence. Maybe he should do what Luke did. Ignore the coach and his groupthinking Clouseaux and pay a visit to Luke's psych. Anyone who knows anything about football, and plenty on here do, will tell you Billy will never be a good AFL standard ruckman as long as his backside points to the ground. Cue bluff, blunder, outrage, exclamation marks and victim playing.

[sunsaint]

Do you think that’s reasonable POV SCSS?
Right him off... don’t give him a go

As I've stated many times before, the change in ruck rule has really effected Tom and he hasn't been able to adapt!!!!!

its like a junk yard dog with a fetid bone
Third up rule only affects a small part of ruck work
how does that affect centre bounces ?
possessions
marking
goals
ground movement

Something has happened to TH in the 2017 season and thats the question we are asking

[stonecold]

Tom had a brilliant 2016. What affected him far more than the third man up myth, was injury. Some major ones and some niggles that effectively destroyed his 2017. Why doesn't anyone acknowledge this? He started last year in good fashion, then was injured. Upon his return, TMBK gave him no chance. Went straight back to his love child, LiaBillytee.

It's a disturbing aspect of TMBK's coaching that he seems to favour the average moderately skilled players above those who show a bit of flair. Witness his bizarre management of Acres and Dunstan. It took the psychologist to help Dunstan recover his form, with Luke openly stating he ignored the coaches! Poor career move, Luke.

Had TMBK shown the same faith in Tom that he did in boat ballast Billy last year, I think things would be very different right now. Last year Tom was almost broken by injury and TMBK did his best to finish the job. If Tom doesn't get back it will be scandalous. Like Paddy, from what I've seen, Tom is bereft of confidence. Maybe he should do what Luke did. Ignore the coach and his groupthinking Clouseaux and pay a visit to Luke's psych. Anyone who knows anything about football, and plenty on here do, will tell you Billy will never be a good AFL standard ruckman as long as his backside points to the ground. Cue bluff, blunder, outrage, exclamation marks and victim playing.

Tool!!!!!

What year was your last involvement in the footy industry Champion?????

What do you know about the modern game aside from what you read and watch?????

[sunsaint]

Im just a no idea nobody
but I watched this

[stonecold]

Do you think that’s reasonable POV SCSS?
Right him off... don’t give him a go

As I've stated many times before, the change in ruck rule has really effected Tom and he hasn't been able to adapt!!!!!

its like a junk yard dog with a fetid bone
Third up rule only affects a small part of ruck work
how does that affect centre bounces ?
possessions
marking
goals
ground movement

Something has happened to TH in the 2017 season and thats the question we are asking

It's called confidence, he's lost it, thus effects every component of your game, lost through the change of rule and has a flow on a effect?!!!! Simple!!!!!