Between the ears

[Saint wagga]

Fact - we played some great footy over the last two seasons. In some matches we’ve been electrifying and have beaten quality sides. But why Do we do consistently put in stinkers?! From the outside, we seem to have a core of level headed tight knit players.
Again from the outside, I’ve noticed a tendency to really panic collectively, finger pointing, poor body language etc when the chips are down, again almost collectively. I think this is damning of the coaching dept. I wonder if they are playing for coach or for career?

[saintspremiers]

Fact - we played some great footy over the last two seasons. In some matches we’ve been electrifying and have beaten quality sides. But why Do we do consistently put in stinkers?! From the outside, we seem to have a core of level headed tight knit players.
Again from the outside, I’ve noticed a tendency to really panic collectively, finger pointing, poor body language etc when the chips are down, again almost collectively. I think this is damning of the coaching dept. I wonder if they are playing for coach or for career?

They are playing for themselves.

The coach is dead man walking. He simply can’t see out both this year and next.

[SydneySainter]

The playing list is okay overall, but would look a lot better if we had a few star players in the mix, especially in the midfield. Inject a few star mids, then we have depth, not just a team of good players.

Also, we're poorly coached. I'm sure a losing coach is always under pressure, but does knowing that you're already under contract for the next two seasons change things?

[suss]

Fact - we played some great footy over the last two seasons. In some matches we’ve been electrifying and have beaten quality sides. But why Do we do consistently put in stinkers?! From the outside, we seem to have a core of level headed tight knit players.
Again from the outside, I’ve noticed a tendency to really panic collectively, finger pointing, poor body language etc when the chips are down, again almost collectively. I think this is damning of the coaching dept. I wonder if they are playing for coach or for career?

The loss of Riewoldt, Montagna and Dempster has created an on-field leadership vacuum. Will that void get filled by the next batch of leaders before the whole thing goes off the rails? Not sure. Our run over the next few weeks looks horrendous though. Leadership and confidence might be on short supply when we're 1 win and 7 losses which I think is likely.

[saintsRrising]

Fact - we played some great footy over the last two seasons. In some matches we’ve been electrifying and have beaten quality sides. But why Do we do consistently put in stinkers?! From the outside, we seem to have a core of level headed tight knit players.
Again from the outside, I’ve noticed a tendency to really panic collectively, finger pointing, poor body language etc when the chips are down, again almost collectively. I think this is damning of the coaching dept. I wonder if they are playing for coach or for career?

They are playing for themselves.

The coach is dead man walking. He simply can’t see out both this year and next.

I think the main reason is if you look àt most of our good performances is that the opposition pressure has been poor.

We play well when there is no pressure.

With applied pressure our skills and decision making both become dreadful. The handball quick gameplan of Richos also then comes undone.

Most opposition coaches are a wake up to this now and so for example both the Lions and Roos flooded and used the forward press to great effect against us.

First game against the tigers we looked amazing. But there was no pressure. Second game the pressure came on and we wilted.

[Saint wagga]

Fact - we played some great footy over the last two seasons. In some matches we’ve been electrifying and have beaten quality sides. But why Do we do consistently put in stinkers?! From the outside, we seem to have a core of level headed tight knit players.
Again from the outside, I’ve noticed a tendency to really panic collectively, finger pointing, poor body language etc when the chips are down, again almost collectively. I think this is damning of the coaching dept. I wonder if they are playing for coach or for career?

They are playing for themselves.

The coach is dead man walking. He simply can’t see out both this year and next.

I think the main reason is if you at most of our good performances is that the opposition pressure has been poor.

We play well when there is no pressure.

With applied pressure our skills and decision making both become dreadful. The handball quick gameplan of Richos also then comes undone.

Most opposition coaches are a wake up to this now and so for example both the Lions and Roos flooded and used the forward press to great effect against us.

First game against the tigers we looked amazing. But there was no pressure. Second game the pressure came on and we wilted.

Can’t argue with this! But we have played some of our good footy in hotly contested matches, some of which we’ve lost but lost and played well. This consistent hot and cold malaise that we have is really concerning because I’m starting to think the coaching dept can’t predict it/start to improve it/know where the root problem is! Very worrying! But there is light, we have some developing talisman in billings and acres and others

[ace]

But there is light, we have some developing talisman in billings and acres and others

Change the names and I have heard the same hope for the last 50 years.

[st.byron]

Without doubt the main obstacle is our mental fitness. U
Until this is properly addressed we will go nowhere.

[DJ Higgins]

I think mental fitness is a factor but IMO its not the biggest issue, not by a long way. the problem is they have not been trained to pass the ball to each other, or how to handball to a player on the run or even make leads for players to pass the ball. Basically we have terrible fundamental skills and they have gotten worse not better. Until this is addressed we will continue to go backwards but I think we have hit rock bottom now.

[cwrcyn]

The defence holds up quite well, but our ball movement from centre to inside 50 is so unfathomably bad. A lot of people chastised our forwards, but what hope did they have. This is our biggest onfield issue

[MC Gusto]

With performances like last weekend arguably the coach has lost the players

If this is the case it’s only downhill from here until the administration admit to it and make a change

[MC Gusto]

The defence holds up quite well, but our ball movement from centre to inside 50 is so unfathomably bad. A lot of people chastised our forwards, but what hope did they have. This is our biggest onfield issue

Could not agree more! We are not bad out of defence, however once it enters the midfield we over use it and then use it poorly when entering the forward 50

I reckon we are the hardest working team with the ball per goal scored

[Drake Huggins]

I think mental fitness is a factor but IMO its not the biggest issue, not by a long way. the problem is they have not been trained to pass the ball to each other, or how to handball to a player on the run or even make leads for players to pass the ball. Basically we have terrible fundamental skills and they have gotten worse not better. Until this is addressed we will continue to go backwards but I think we have hit rock bottom now.

The first things that breaks down under pressure are the basic skills. Whether that is due to physical tiredness, psychological weakness or pressure from the opposition, the result is inevitable. It's what the game is about. It's very much a war of attrition. That's when, if your fundamentals aren't rock solid, you fall apart. Look at that last quarter from Friday, if you can force yourself to. The theory converted into practical reality.

Our fundamental skills are poor when the heat is on. That is the true rest of the quality of your list and coaching staff. I hope you're right about having hit rock bottom, DJH. I just hope that having reached that point, they don't start digging.

[Linton Lodger]

It probably is between the ears and I actually think its a case of an inexperienced List getting ahead of themselves. I think what we saw on Friday was the consequence of hubris.

We quite simply didn't work, got smashed at the coalface and on the outside, which leads to the deplorable execution we witnessed.

We disrespected our opponent, fatal at the best of times but particularly so in an elite competition that's very even. I was shocked to hear comments from our players indicating they expected North to run out of legs. If that's not disrespecting the opposition and hubris, I don't know what is.

As I've mentioned in other posts, the next 3 weeks will be telling. At the moment it is way too premature to be writing off the Coach, the List or the gameplan. Gameplan's always look nonsensical when there's a lack of effort and attitude.

I'm sure anyone on this Forum who has played sport at a reasonable level, would have experienced defeat at the hands of an inferior opponent because they didn't bring 100% effort and focus.

[samuraisaint]

It takes three years to learn how to coach, and coaches often improve in their fourth, going into their fifth year. And not everybody can coach.
One thing is for sure - it is not a popularity contest out there, it comes down to respect. You lose the locker room and you're cactus. I don't think this has happened, but I do think our current crop of players have received poor training and development. It doesn't always mean the senior coach or main assistant coach, but players and supporters know good coaching when they see it. I have to admit I am really shocked at how poorly we begin most of our games. No intensity at all. If I was an opponent I would think - how easy is this! Case in point - home game vs Sydney last year - absolutely no intensity at all. This was against a team who had only won one game out of their previous eight or something like that, and on our own home ground. Their preparation for that game was non-existent from what I could see.
Our club has a history of sacking coaches it shouldn't have, Stan Alves and Grant Thomas are two I can think of, and you can add Kenny Sheldon to that list. All three of those guys were just coming in to their prime as coaches when they were cut down.
Richo needs to be given time to turn this around, but the development and training of our players must improve.

[st.byron]

I think mental fitness is a factor but IMO its not the biggest issue, not by a long way. the problem is they have not been trained to pass the ball to each other, or how to handball to a player on the run or even make leads for players to pass the ball. Basically we have terrible fundamental skills and they have gotten worse not better. Until this is addressed we will continue to go backwards but I think we have hit rock bottom now.

Of course they’ve been trained to do it. They do it ad nauseum at training. Over and over and over. So why is it that they can’t execute on match day? Coz they’re mind is not in the right place. It’s the same as any task requiring focus and skill. If a person is not properly focused and their mind is in the right place they wont deliver on their benchmark for execution of the task. It is in fact almost entirely an issue of the mind and mental focus.

[spert]

It takes three years to learn how to coach, and coaches often improve in their fourth, going into their fifth year. And not everybody can coach.
One thing is for sure - it is not a popularity contest out there, it comes down to respect. You lose the locker room and you're cactus. I don't think this has happened, but I do think our current crop of players have received poor training and development. It doesn't always mean the senior coach or main assistant coach, but players and supporters know good coaching when they see it. I have to admit I am really shocked at how poorly we begin most of our games. No intensity at all. If I was an opponent I would think - how easy is this! Case in point - home game vs Sydney last year - absolutely no intensity at all. This was against a team who had only won one game out of their previous eight or something like that, and on our own home ground. Their preparation for that game was non-existent from what I could see.
Our club has a history of sacking coaches it shouldn't have, Stan Alves and Grant Thomas are two I can think of, and you can add Kenny Sheldon to that list. All three of those guys were just coming in to their prime as coaches when they were cut down.
Richo needs to be given time to turn this around, but the development and training of our players must improve.

Stan got us to the GF, GT into the prelim final, and Kenny got the team playing a better standard of footy. After 5 years, We look very very ordinary under Richo, with no real signs of any player having a breakout start to the season, and supporters and media losing interest. Richo is not getting into the player's heads if we need to have a crisis meeting after a terrible loss so early in the season. Time to move him on- what the heck, we're in a lot of debt, so what's a bit more in order to move this club up the ladder.

[DJ Higgins]

Of course they’ve been trained to do it. They do it ad nauseum at training. Over and over and over. So why is it that they can’t execute on match day? Coz they’re mind is not in the right place. It’s the same as any task requiring focus and skill. If a person is not properly focused and their mind is in the right place they wont deliver on their benchmark for execution of the task. It is in fact almost entirely an issue of the mind and mental focus.

I have to agree to disagree but in my opinion I think you have it back the front. I am not saying the mental aspect isn't a factor but our players just don't have good skills. Then they lose confidence when they screw up and then their heads drop and they make more mistakes not the other way around. and I put that down to the coaching staff because it is there job. They struggle to pick the ball up off the deck, they can't kick to targets, handballs to players to run on to it etc. Even when they handball to players on the run they jump up in the air when there is no need to and they lose speed. Watch for it on the weekend. it is school boy stuff. And watch for blind handballs to players running passed with no regard to where the defence is as that is how they train.

Max Gawn tells of Roos training Dees when they were terrible and had similiar troubles. Then Roos coached it out of them, changed the way they trained and did drills that worked for them as each player is different. It took a few years but it worked and their skills improved dramatically and now they are a real chance to play finals.