The reason we are heading back down.

[The Fireman]

the state of our club atm seems to be making a lot of people very angry

[Milne]

the state of our club atm seems to be making a lot of people very angry

We went right down to the bottom after Ross left. With our "rebuild" we should be playing finals by now.

[degruch]

Only McCartin out there today and he was disgraceful again. Dropped marks, fumbles, missed easy set shots and a complete inability or desire to chase. Did anyone see how pathetic his second efforts and chasing were? Team mates would've been disheartened at his apparent lack of effort. Maybe he just can't run, or he was having a hyper / hypoglycaemic episode. Can't kick, can't mark, can't run, can't chase. Our genius recruiter told TMBK, Paddy would be a great player for us for 12 years. That estimate is now down to eight years and falling by the week. You'd think a gun recruiter might have noticed the faults I outlined before. Anyone watching his U/18 highlights would've known he was nowhere near worth the number one pick.

I was just yelling at Paddy and his lack of second effort, when he proceeded to drop a mark, get up, and chase down a North defender...so he's not quite as bad as you're stating. Fact is, if we'd picked Petracca, McCartin would have been #2...I just wish we'd had the luxury of 2 picks.

That would be one, I concede degruch. How many times did I see him half heartedly jog after an opponent having lost the contest? Too many to not be a cause for concern. I reckon Roo would've given him an almighty rocket after several times he just went through the motions. Demoralising for fans, players and coaches. I'm not saying he's lazy and doesn't try. That you can fix. I'm saying he can't do the basics, which is far more worrying.

I just retread your post degruch, and noticed two things. Like me, you were yelling at him for a lack of second effort, so you do acknowledge that he is less than adequate in this area. That came because he dropped a mark, which he does quite a lot.
As for him going at number two, no he wouldn't have. Melbourne wanted midfielders so it would've been Petracca and then Brayshaw.

I recall at the time that several clubs didn't even have him in the top ten. It would've been interesting to see where he would've gone if we hadn't picked him. The field in 2014 was wide open. The reason Paddy excited so much interest is that flathead nominated him a long way out from the draft. A bit like showing other poker players your cards. The media jumped on it and he was anointed favourite for number one.

You're correct, I yell and bury my face in my hands because he's not on it 100% of the time...and yes, I wish he had that natural instinct, especially given the disgraceful delivery our forwards have been getting, which makes 2nd efforts absolutely mandatory. But he's also lacking game time and form...whether he seriously improves is a waiting game sadly. Anyways, at least he was up the ground looking for action at the point he dropped that mark...I would have preferred Membrey doing so, but for some reason he seemed anchored deep in the F50 for most of the game. Maybe this was a deliberate ploy by North to have his man pull him back, reducing our forward mobility? But as Skunk is probably our best shot at goal also, maybe not.

I get what you're saying, but I'm still confident he would have been #2 if not picked by us. Melbourne had 2 picks to play with, a number of developing midfielders already, and a solitary (frequently injured) 20 year old key forward in Hogan. The Bulldogs had just sold the club for Boyd and the lack of key forward availability was the talk of the AFL. I still think the Dees need another AFL ready key forward asap to be any real threat of going deep in September...we need a couple as well! Lynch will be staying at GCFC

[desertsaint]

the state of our club atm seems to be making a lot of people very angry

We went right down to the bottom after Ross left. With our "rebuild" we should be playing finals by now.

we didn't go down long enough. after ross we finished 9th, 16th, 18th, 14th, 9th, 11th.
If those two 9ths places had been 16-18 we'd be laughing - if we'd picked alright. Though of course we blew 2014.

2012 - lost Goddard, gained Roberton from FA.
Traded pick 12 for lee and picks 24,45. Then traded 13, 36, 55 for hickey and 25, 46. Gave 26 for Trent Dennis-Lane.
Gave 45 and Cripps away for 40 and 43.
Drafted Wright and Spencer White at 24,25. Took Murdoch and Saunders at 40, 43. Pierce at 75.
Simply awful and we're suffering the effects. A s*** draft though as Pick 12 ended up on Jaksch, 13 Lonergan.
Bottom 3 - GWS had a few picks but Wines went at 7 for 14th placed Port

2013 - lost Dal to FA
Traded McEvoy for Savage and 18. Gave up Delaney for 77. Gave up 24, 59 for 19. Gave up 25 and 41 for Longer and 48. Traded 48 for Bruce.
Drafted Billings (3), Dunstan (18), Acres (19).
Looks good but that 25 for Longer may have cost us Merrett (26) or Lobb (29). 41 went on Kolodjashnij. Ben Brown went 47.

2014 - lost Gwilt, gained Membrey in FA.
Traded Stanley and 60 for 21.
Drafted Paddy (1) Goddard (21), McKenzie (22), Lonie (41). Mav as rookie draft.
Awful but another very poor draft pool.

2015
Traded 5, 24 in a 3 way deal with Essendon and Sydney for Carlisle and 14. Got Freeman and 68 for 63 and 2016 second rounder (Pies swapped this for Aish, it then travelled halfway across australia before ending with Port who used it (33) on Drew).
Drafted Gresh (14 ended as 18 with academy/fs), White (40), Rice (39 - fs). Sinclair as rookie draft.
2 very good players from this so a pass mark.
Bottom 3 - Oliver.

2016 - Got Brown on FA.
Traded 10, 68 for 23, 36 and 2017 hawks' first rounder. Got Steele for 2017 second rounder. Got Stevens, 61, and 2017 4th rndr (Dogs) for 50 and 2017 5th rndr.
Drafted Long (25), Battle (39), (Phillips 56).
Too early to call - Looks like a decent, but not overwheming draft. Depends on Clark, Battle, and Steele's progress. If all 3 become long termers we've done excellently.
Bottom 3 - all look excellent.

2017
Traded 2018 3rd rounder for Austin and 2018 4th rndr. Got pick 34 and 2018 4th rndr (via Crows) for 2018 2nd rndr, 59 and 63.
Drafted Clark (7), Coffield (8), Clavarino (35), Paton (46).
Too early to call, but if 2018 lives up to it's hype, and we finish low - we may regret losing that second rounder. Basically Clavarino vs that future pick.
Bottom 3 - too early to call.

So that's our history. What we have missed is any top class FA or trade talent. More like we have hole pluggers (and hail mary hope in Freeman,s case). Carlisle & Roberton the exception. Steele could be good.

In all those years we've ended up after trading and FA with 4 top ten picks and a total of 7 in the top twenty (goddard compo means we're one up).
we can't evaluate last year yet so it becomes 2 top tens and 5 top twenty over 5 years.
Did we end up with 2 top ten pick worthy players?
Yes - Carlisle, Billings.
And 5 top twenty? (not including FA)
Carlisle, Billings, Gresham - Definite.
Acres, Dunstan, Sinclair, Steele, Membrey - looks like this year will answer that.

[CQ SAINT]

I did post why a number of weeks ago and was howled down by the usual blue sky specialists. At the time I said the team was playing as though there was a malaise affecting the whole club. It coincided with Roo being cooked and injured in the last seven games of last year. Despite the protestations of some, his loss is incalculable for its effect on the team. Trying to replace him is like trying to fill in the Grand Canyon with a bucket and spade.

Even though we won last week, anyone could see it was quite an average performance against a developing team that is still miles off being consistently competitive. Having watched Adelaide and Richmond last night, I shudder to think what either of those sides would've done to us today. We probably would've got Tonned. Can you imagine roo out there today, putting up with that insipid effort?

Having lost roo, the problem was compounded by the loss of the one competent administrator we had, being Ameet Bains. That was a bigger disaster than has been acknowledged. No wonder other clubs wanted him. He was far from perfect but the others around him made him look like a genius. At least he left us a war chest, which we can now spend on the existing list. Goodness knows no one wanted to come to us after last season. I doubt they'll come this year, either.

The answer to the question is simple. I'll leave it to the great, late Allan Jeans. I can give it to you in 25 words or less. "Clubs with s*** administrations don't win premierships. Only well run clubs do, laddie." Unfortunately, we have a long history in the former category only. The tradition continues at Moorabbin. The last and only time this club had a decent, competent and stable administration was under the men I take my moniker from. Huggins and Drake. It's no coincidence we were a regular finalist, played in three GFs and won our only flag. Looks like Yabby was right.

There is a stench of mediocrity about the place that starts at the very top and goes all the way through. Don't be in any doubt that Finnis and Lethlean are using us as a stepping stone in their careers, nothing more. Finnis covets the top job at HQ and took the job because he was told to by Gilligan. Lethlean is trying to rehabilitate his reputation so he can get a CEO job at club level or beyond the AFL.

The coach, whom I've supported until this preseason, when the ugly truth about his ability to coach a senior AFL club became obvious, is a study in mediocrity. A tough, but limited footballer, he brings those same limits to his coaching. The fact we have a captain cast in the image of Richo the player is hardly surprising. Barely worthy of a place in the side, he is incapable of inspiring, leading, or changing the course of a match. A GOP by definition. Hardly what you want as the leader. Imagine what Roo would've done today? I'm sure we wouldn't have capitulated as easily as we did.

The assistants? A motley collection of Clouseaux who have nothing in their CV's that inspires confidence. Playfair may be the only exception, but we have to wait and see on that one. We lost our best in Paul Hudson, in circumstances that suggest he and the coach didn't see eye to eye on a number of issues. Perhaps the Milky Bar Kid felt threatened. The rest have damned themselves with their dismal records in terms of development and performance. We're clearly going backwards. They've all been there for a number of years. I believe the club has mistaken stagnation for stability. The extension for TMBK last year was at best puzzling and at worst, incompetent. We'll be paying for that for a while. It also sends a message that results don't matter as much as the much prized "stability".

Once we lost Roo, we lost our only decent leader. There is no logical or obvious successor. I mean, Riewoldt to Geary. Say it slowly to realise how much we're lacking in that area. If Geary was hit by a bus tomorrow, who would take over? Take your pick, but it's not obvious, but it wouldn't matter who it was at this stage.

Then there's my favourite bugbear, the terrible recruiting in the past six years since you know who took over. Apart from the appalling howler with McCartin, there is also the fact that the 2012 and 2014 drafts are now write offs. That's two entire drafts when your building, with the advantage of numerous early picks. We saw the fruits of the flathead's efforts today. 2012, he gave us Lee, Hickey, Wright, White, Murdoch, Saunders and Trent Dennis Lane. 2014, McCartin, Goddard, McKenzie and Lonie. Outstanding.

Only McCartin out there today and he was disgraceful again. Dropped marks, fumbles, missed easy set shots and a complete inability or desire to chase. Did anyone see how pathetic his second efforts and chasing were? Team mates would've been disheartened at his apparent lack of effort. Maybe he just can't run, or he was having a hyper / hypoglycaemic episode. Can't kick, can't mark, can't run, can't chase. Our genius recruiter told TMBK, Paddy would be a great player for us for 12 years. That estimate is now down to eight years and falling by the week. You'd think a gun recruiter might have noticed the faults I outlined before. Anyone watching his U/18 highlights would've known he was nowhere near worth the number one pick.

At this stage, it would be reasonable to expect at least five of the eleven I mentioned should by now be regular, consistent senior players in the vital 50-100 games played bracket. The foundation of our rise. Remember, the plan stated that by 2018 we would be the envy of the competition in terms of recruiting and player development. Instead we are a laughing stock after today. The plan is done. A flag by 2020? As Daryl Kerrigan would say, "Tell 'em they're dreamin'."

Now the flathead has appointed the work experience kid as his successor. Fantastic. At least he's clever enough to appoint someone under him who can't possibly get his job. Learnt that from Sheedy, no doubt. I'm sure you'll be comforted by the thought he'll be up against the likes of Kinnear Beatson, Stephen Wells, Simon Lloyd, Graham Wright, et al.

Some have suggested I have a personal beef with the flathead. I don't. I'm only going on his record of consistent failure in most positions he's held since his retirement from playing. No training, no qualifications, no aptitude for the job. His appointment was a job for the boy type. Typical saints. Buy what you can afford, not what you need. That's my beef, as the recruiting and list management are now the most important jobs in the club, after the head coach. TMBK has every right to be disappointed by what he's been handed. I do feel some sympathy for him.

In conclusion we have the worst debt of any Victorian club and the lowest membership. So the master plan has failed dismally on all fronts. At the risk of telling you so, but I did warn you all as to what was coming. Our incompetence has finally caught us. It appears my old idol the Yabbster was right. I can hear him spinning in his grave.

Huggins and Drake were administrators at the club for a nearly a decade before our only premiership and 14 and 23 years after it. They oversaw a 7 year period of success in which we played in 3 Grand finals and won one by a point. The other 2 were very dissapointing. If you want to attribute this to Drake and Huggins and great administration and provide a loose quote from Jeans as proof then go ahead. But based on both their track records for success, our current administration need to hit within 3 years and then have another 15 to 24 to be on even ground in terms of longevity.
Im calling your rhetoric - bulls***.

What a predictable response Komrade. Why is it that lefties live in their own fantasy world, always ignoring facts and limply attacking those who shatter their illusions? Or is this just another one of your childish personal attacks? I'm flattered it takes me to pull you out of hiding. I was wondering when you would bob up. You must have finished reading your latest copy of Pravda.

Name another period of our club's tragic history when we've had more, or any success for the matter? Facts, Komrade, not rhetoric, which is all your belief system is based on. How do you explain the constant finals appearances, three GFs and a premiership. Not rhetoric, Komrade, but fact. If only we could replicate Drake, Huggins and Jeans' record now. No chance with this administration. Are you telling me the Yabbster was wrong about s*** administrations not winning premierships? That's rich, even for you.
What do you attribute our success from 1961-1976 to? I'm fascinated what you will throw up (pun intended). Good luck? It was great administration, coaching, recruiting and the bold move to Moorabbin amongst other things. This administration is doomed and threatens to take the club with it. Unlike all who spend their time navel gazing and fantasising about utopia, we don't have the luxury of giving this administration another decade to even up your imaginary and irrelevant ledger.

So, Komrade, I call you're rhetoric a nonsense that is unsupported by any credible evidence. In fact, it flies in the face of history and the facts. As usual. So, I hope when you next gaze into your mirror, through a torrent of your self congratulatory tears, you can remind yourself how morally, ethically and intellectually superior you are to the rest of us. You're just like that other fantasist, stonecold, except you're literate. The level of intelligence is about equal.

A club’s administration needs to provide only three things: money, good players and a good coach who possesses the leadership qualities to get the best out of the players. If you have money, you can afford good players who help you win more games, more people come through the gate, membership improves because there are higher expectations, and you’re in a better position to find sponsors. Each of those three things feed off each other. - Allan Jeans.

16 years coach at St.Kilda. 59% winning record. 9 years in the finals. 3 Grand finals. 1 Premiership.

9 years as coach at Hawthorn. 72% winning record. 8 years in the finals. 6 consecutive Grand finals 3 Premierships.

Jeans, a very respectful leader and outstanding role model, was never one to talk down about others publicly, but as a very proud and forthright man he didnt like being talked down about either.

Jeans was once criticised about his lack of success at St.Kilda considering the players, membership growth and facilities at his disposal. His response, as I understand it, included the quote above and similar words to the quote you mentioned in your earlier post.

I will let you decide which administration, that he encountered during his coaching career, he was talking about. It may have been Richmond but, given their record during his time at St.Kilda, I doubt it very much. I am also pretty certain it wasn't Hawthorn.

I bobbed up because I am on holiday with my family and have been enjoying myself and having a break from work and after Friday night, Saintsational.

I see you have been busy on here recently.

I see no sense to the rhetoric you pass off as wisdom through your analysis of our coaches, playing list and football administration and your pleas to convert all of us lefties to the right with you and your band of henchmen bemuse me but I enjoy the read, love the topics and feel it necessary to bring your bulls*** propaganda into line occasionally.

You need a holiday Drakey. It is just a game.

[Drake Huggins]

I'm enjoying myself down at sunny Paynesville, thanks CQS. I do enjoy our little stoushes. Always interesting, if nothing else. Sorry about the crack about your intelligence being on a par with common cold. That was an unecessarily low blow. I started this latest series of posts with one about things about the club that were concerning me. The initial concern was about our fight for survival and the uncertainty of the long term future. The second was about the malaise that appeared to be affecting the players during the JLT series, which had its genesis in our last 7 games last year. I could see a number of deficiencies brewing into a perfect storm of failure.

I hope I'm wrong about all the things I posted, but I fear I might be closer to right (no pun intended) than wrong. Our history does not augur well for the future. As to the Yabbie quote, it's one he used in various forms on many occasions. The conversation I had with him where he said it was after a sporting function in 1994. I was considering a coaching job in the Ammos and he cautioned me. Don't worry so much about the players yet. Check out who's running the club and ask some questions of people who can give you insight about the blokes who do. That's when he dropped the line, adding that it doesn't matter at what level it is, the rule is always the same. I didn't take the job.

As for which administration he may have been referring to, I think the comments were a generalisation or a truism of his. I had worked for him as a young copper and he always presented as controlled and sensible. Your post did make me think, however, that he may have fallen out of love with The Saints administration and he might have been referring to the latter stages of the Drake/Huggins admin. I'd only ever heard him say good things about them, but on one occasion in 1984 he came into the kitchen at work, looking mighty unhappy.

When one of the boys asked him what was wrong, he fixed that famous stare on him and in a very threatening tone he said, "How would you be feeling if you'd just been told your superannuation had just been all but wiped out!" He stormed off mumbling something about being glad he was at Hawthorn now, so you may be right in part.

We realised he was talking about the infamous scheme of arrangement. I have to add that yabbie was no fan of Lindsay Fox. He told numerous stories about the dodgy dealings snake eyes got up to when starting his business. Foxy loved the coppers because they helped him get his sly grogging business off the ground. The whole single coal truck legend is the story Foxy loves to tell. In truth, he ran, delivered and sold grog illegally. In his defence he did turn those humble beginnings into a massive business. He never forgot those who helped him.

I hope that is a slightly deeper and better explanation of my position. I still think Yabbie was right. From my experience of playing, coaching, work and seeing the internal machinations of the club, his words seemed to match reality. I've never seen poorly administered clubs or organisations have sustained success. One flag in 145 years would more than suggest we, as an entity couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. Save that copy of Pravda for me.