WHAT IF I COULD CHOSE A COACH?

[Scollop]

Time for the triumphant return of Watters!

Doesn't matter who is appointed, as long as the tail doesn't wag the dog and as long as you have a strong board who won't buckle for the sake of 1 or 2 players. Watters actually was a pretty good coach for the rebuild and he was excellent at player development. Jack Steven, Armo, Gears, Jimmy and a couple of other guys including Seb Ross with gained confidence to feel like they belong and they flourished under his coaching

Watters would actually be welcomed by the current playing group, but it's not going to happen. Personally, I'd be getting Brendan McCarthy as head coach (for the rebuild at least)and Jason McCartney to oversee recruiting and list management.

[degruch]

Bevo.

I honestly thought the move to get Bevo in as Director of Coaching was an attempt to cover our arse if Richo turned out to be a dud. I think we dodged a bullet and shot ourselves in the foot, simultaneously!

[stonecold]

Peter Sumich.

Great choice, he went that well that he is no longer in the system!!!!!

Back to the Catholic Church for you Brother!!!!!

[stonecold]

Time for the triumphant return of Watters!

Doesn't matter who is appointed, as long as the tail doesn't wag the dog and as long as you have a strong board who won't buckle for the sake of 1 or 2 players. Watters actually was a pretty good coach for the rebuild and he was excellent at player development. Jack Steven, Armo, Gears, Jimmy and a couple of other guys including Seb Ross with gained confidence to feel like they belong and they flourished under his coaching

Watters would actually be welcomed by the current playing group, but it's not going to happen. Personally, I'd be getting Brendan McCarthy as head coach (for the rebuild at least)and Jason McCartney to oversee recruiting and list management.

Don't think so!!!!!

[perfectionist]

Bozo the clown! Hang on, we've got him.

Just kidding. Players make coaches not vice versa. The number one problem, which I alerted people to about 6 years ago, is our lack of foot skills. It is why I asserted then, and have been proved correct now, that as long as Jack Steven is seen as a "champion", good as he is at getting the ball, and is our best player, we will be bottom. He can't kick. Never could and still can't. We lost our last and only genuine two sided player last year - Nick. Jake and Jade are OK. Apart from them we have none. We have zero small players who can take a contested mark. Did I mention that Jack Steven has never taken a competitive mark? Oh, and he can't handball. Did anyone watch the WCE today? Almost all of their players can kick (hard quick kicks), take marks over their heads and handpass. And, they are strong. We are weak. The weakest player on their list is an ex Saints player, who still isn't much good, but is a fair No 22 on the park.

[tony74]

This will fire up a few. Apart from Richo the next best coach is Lyon. He never wanted to leave and had the respect of the playing group. Russian roulette failed dismally.

[Darth Vader]

This will fire up a few. Apart from Richo the next best coach is Lyon. He never wanted to leave and had the respect of the playing group. Russian roulette failed dismally.

Yep. The players never had a problem with him.

[skeptic]

Bozo the clown! Hang on, we've got him.

Just kidding. Players make coaches not vice versa. The number one problem, which I alerted people to about 6 years ago, is our lack of foot skills. It is why I asserted then, and have been proved correct now, that as long as Jack Steven is seen as a "champion", good as he is at getting the ball, and is our best player, we will be bottom. He can't kick. Never could and still can't. We lost our last and only genuine two sided player last year - Nick. Jake and Jade are OK. Apart from them we have none. We have zero small players who can take a contested mark. Did I mention that Jack Steven has never taken a competitive mark? Oh, and he can't handball. Did anyone watch the WCE today? Almost all of their players can kick (hard quick kicks), take marks over their heads and handpass. And, they are strong. We are weak. The weakest player on their list is an ex Saints player, who still isn't much good, but is a fair No 22 on the park.

I don't know in what universe you can take our best player and single him out as the problem... 6 years later I doubt anyone other than you feels this way still

[skeptic]

This will fire up a few. Apart from Richo the next best coach is Lyon. He never wanted to leave and had the respect of the playing group. Russian roulette failed dismally.

Yep. The players never had a problem with him.

This is true... well in most cases at least. A bunch will say he never so much as spoke to them. Luke Ball too may have some harsh words.

As a critic I would say that he took a team with what 10AA players, failed to win a premiership and turned it into the mess that required this near lifelong rebuild to begin with

[Con Gorozidis]

This will fire up a few. Apart from Richo the next best coach is Lyon. He never wanted to leave and had the respect of the playing group. Russian roulette failed dismally.

Hang on.
So you are saying Richo is the best coach in the AFL and Lyon is the second best?

Seriously delusional.

Don't think Ur being a bit biased seeing they both coached the Saints?

Seriously get a grip dude.

How do you explain the actual coaching records?

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/afl ... us=A&type=

[David-Lee]

This will fire up a few. Apart from Richo the next best coach is Lyon. He never wanted to leave and had the respect of the playing group. Russian roulette failed dismally.

It wont fire me up. Here's our coaches for the past 20 seasons (Stan Alves just sneaks in)

COACH G W L D % YEARS
Stan Alves 115 55 59 1 48.26 1994–98
Tim Watson 44 12 31 1 28.41 1999–2000
Malcolm Blight 15 3 12 0 20.00 2001
Grant Thomas 123 63 59 1 51.63 2001–06
Ross Lyon 121 76 41 4 64.46 2007–11
Scott Watters 44 17 27 0 38.64 2012–13
Alan Richardson 90 34 55 1 37.78 2014-


PRESIDENTS
Andrew Plympton (1993–2001)
Rod Butterss (2001–2007)
Greg Westaway (2007–2013)
Peter Summers (2013–present)

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that Lyon was our most winning coach. He had sone issues around developing youth - they say. But, he had a board and president hell bent on winning and money was thrown at players to keep them and little invested in 2nd tier players ( one reason why we failed as we lacked depth) ...don't forget Riewoldt was the million dollar man and others were getting paid very well - we cared little about getting newbies for a tomorrow when the big focus was on sculpting what we had into GF winners.

Grant Thomas warts and all had done some really good things but he maxed out and could only get us so far. But I'm not sure he was as bad as some think another year might have been a GF year- remember our alcohlic cocaine snorting president was a psycho and literally fired the man for wanting to invest more in the team and make signficant changes.

It was not Lyons fault we didn't get 2 GF wins. He did everything right. We were facing the Geelong juggernaut and our own mistakes cost us...I honestly don't think there was anything else to do - the best that could be extrapolated from the staff, coaching and players was left on the field and beyond my tears and flogging threats to Ross....I now am very proud of the team and coaches from Grant Thomas through to Ross Lyons last GF. If we didnt play games and signed him to a five year contract he may still be with us...he might even have got us to a few more top 8 finishes...I used to say he couldn't build a team just fine tune what someone elses blood sweat and tears laid down but he's doing exactly that in Fremantle...rebuilding and he wants too...he didnt jump ship once they had their run...I dont love everything he did but I miss his smarts and his knack of getting a way to win from what is on his plate even if its not pleasant to watch. The players absolutley loved Grant Thomas and ADORED Ross the Boss...total fact. I watched Nick and his gang eating lunch with Ross once in Frankston and they were literally hanging off his words.


This is why we have to let Richo go now. He asks- HOW CAN we get outworked so consistently across four quarters? That was the question St Kilda coach Alan Richardson asked his players. He didn't say - hey, I'm sorry I was oit coached again, I had a shockimg strategy, I was completely wrong at the selection table. I'm afraid to take a risk...I could have have moved anybody onto Ben Brown to stem the flow of goals...hell, throw Bruce back there, he's a damn fine fullback and actually needs a reboot. Chuck Brown up the forward - cant do any worse but Bruce CAN do better than Brown. I could have brought Battle in or Hickey I could have even broufht in 2 rucks - imagine that. Maybe dropping players that finished the season strong wasnt the best idea and gifting games to senior players who can barely get a touch isnt working. But no responsibilities taken just put it all on the players because its their fault after all right? He wasbt on the field.

I am 100% fine with firing Richo today and letting an assistant have a crack...let Kingsley coach he is so intelligent and may be the answer....

AUGUST 2017
"PORT Adelaide premiership player and St Kilda assistant Adam Kingsley should be Gold Coast’s next senior coach, according to David King.
The two-time premiership Kangaroo suggested Kingsley may need backup in the form of an experienced second-in-charge, but implored the 41-year-old to win the job ahead of several highly qualified candidates.

“I would be going for Adam Kingsley,” King told AFL 360.

“I’ve been in the St Kilda box a couple of times as an outsider — just sitting there observing — [he is] outstanding. I learn something every time he talks.”

NO ONE EVER COMES AWAY FROM AN ALAN RICHARDSON CONVERSATION THINKING THEY'VE LEARNED SOMETHING....EVER.

[David-Lee]

This will fire up a few. Apart from Richo the next best coach is Lyon. He never wanted to leave and had the respect of the playing group. Russian roulette failed dismally.

It wont fire me up. Here's our coaches for the past 20 seasons (Stan Alves just sneaks in)

COACH G W L D % YEARS
Stan Alves 115 55 59 1 48.26 1994–98
Tim Watson 44 12 31 1 28.41 1999–2000
Malcolm Blight 15 3 12 0 20.00 2001
Grant Thomas 123 63 59 1 51.63 2001–06
Ross Lyon 121 76 41 4 64.46 2007–11
Scott Watters 44 17 27 0 38.64 2012–13
Alan Richardson 90 34 55 1 37.78 2014-


PRESIDENTS
Andrew Plympton (1993–2001)
Rod Butterss (2001–2007)
Greg Westaway (2007–2013)
Peter Summers (2013–present)

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that Lyon was our most winning coach. He had sone issues around developing youth - they say. But, he had a board and president hell bent on winning and money was thrown at players to keep them and little invested in 2nd tier players ( one reason why we failed as we lacked depth) ...don't forget Riewoldt was the million dollar man and others were getting paid very well - we cared little about getting newbies for a tomorrow when the big focus was on sculpting what we had into GF winners.

Grant Thomas warts and all had done some really good things but he maxed out and could only get us so far. But I'm not sure he was as bad as some think another year might have been a GF year- remember our alcohlic cocaine snorting president was a psycho and literally fired the man for wanting to invest more in the team and make signficant changes.

It was not Lyons fault we didn't get 2 GF wins. He did everything right. We were facing the Geelong juggernaut and our own mistakes cost us...I honestly don't think there was anything else to do - the best that could be extrapolated from the staff, coaching and players was left on the field and beyond my tears and flogging threats to Ross....I now am very proud of the team and coaches from Grant Thomas through to Ross Lyons last GF. If we didnt play games and signed him to a five year contract he may still be with us...he might even have got us to a few more top 8 finishes...I used to say he couldn't build a team just fine tune what someone elses blood sweat and tears laid down but he's doing exactly that in Fremantle...rebuilding and he wants too...he didnt jump ship once they had their run...I dont love everything he did but I miss his smarts and his knack of getting a way to win from what is on his plate even if its not pleasant to watch. The players absolutley loved Grant Thomas and ADORED Ross the Boss...total fact. I watched Nick and his gang eating lunch with Ross once in Frankston and they were literally hanging off his words.


This is why we have to let Richo go now. He asks- HOW CAN we get outworked so consistently across four quarters? That was the question St Kilda coach Alan Richardson asked his players. He didn't say - hey, I'm sorry I was oit coached again, I had a shockimg strategy, I was completely wrong at the selection table. I'm afraid to take a risk...I could have have moved anybody onto Ben Brown to stem the flow of goals...hell, throw Bruce back there, he's a damn fine fullback and actually needs a reboot. Chuck Brown up the forward - cant do any worse but Bruce CAN do better than Brown. I could have brought Battle in or Hickey I could have even broufht in 2 rucks - imagine that. Maybe dropping players that finished the season strong wasnt the best idea and gifting games to senior players who can barely get a touch isnt working. But no responsibilities taken just put it all on the players because its their fault after all right? He wasbt on the field.

I am 100% fine with firing Richo today and letting an assistant have a crack...let Kingsley coach he is so intelligent and may be the answer....

AUGUST 2017
"PORT Adelaide premiership player and St Kilda assistant Adam Kingsley should be Gold Coast’s next senior coach, according to David King.
The two-time premiership Kangaroo suggested Kingsley may need backup in the form of an experienced second-in-charge, but implored the 41-year-old to win the job ahead of several highly qualified candidates.

“I would be going for Adam Kingsley,” King told AFL 360.

“I’ve been in the St Kilda box a couple of times as an outsider — just sitting there observing — [he is] outstanding. I learn something every time he talks.”

NO ONE EVER COMES AWAY FROM AN ALAN RICHARDSON CONVERSATION THINKING THEY'VE LEARNED SOMETHING....EVER.

[congorozides]

Richardson sits on a 37% win record and continues to play the same side and use the same tactics week in week out and expects something to somehow miraculously change.

The bloke has his head well and truly in the sand. He is ultra conservative and seems to have run out of ideas some time ago.

His only positive attribute seems to be 'stability'. Unfortunately we are stable and stagnant and stuck firmly in mediocrity.

[Scollop]

This will fire up a few. Apart from Richo the next best coach is Lyon. He never wanted to leave and had the respect of the playing group. Russian roulette failed dismally.

It was not Lyons fault we didn't get 2 GF wins. He did everything right.

You just contradicted yourself.

He was in the right place at the right time and his 2 mates in Robert Walls and Paul Roos played a large part in his success in getting yhe senior gig. He got a chance to be a senior coach with a team that was already playing deep in September. Most coaches worth their salt would have had similar results imho with the teams he inherited. Yes, he has a good win loss percentage rate after picking up 2 teams who were already playing pre-lims before he arrived. He had a chance with the playing lists assembled for him and he wasn't good enough.

He did everything right to win a McLelland trophy in 2009 with us and another one with Freo. He did everything right except have a game plan that involved scoring. He did everything right apart from having a plan B to counter the opposition when it really counts on the biggest stage in September.

He did everything right apaty from getting team selection right so you don't have too many passengers in the beggest game of the year. Please don't single out the players when you look at the reasons we lost in 09/10. He had no plan C or any trump card to play to eliminate any doubt as to whether "he did everything right"

[Teflon]

Facts are NO other coach in our modern history has EVER developed a feared, dominating side like Lyon did. He commands respect and yes has a ton of mongrel and I think that Street brawling mongrelmis sadly now what we lack
I still think for Lyon to be a “great” coach (apart from flags) he needs to build a team - be interesting to see how he goes at Freo. Our players loved him but that doors done

Leigh Tudor gets my nod
Sheedy just laughable....was cooked a decade ago

[WellardSaint]

This will fire up a few. Apart from Richo the next best coach is Lyon. He never wanted to leave and had the respect of the playing group. Russian roulette failed dismally.

I really think you are so damn predictable.
It's obvious you are just toeing the party line, like a good little soldier.
A back- bench politician.
I stopped listening to you ages ago, because you drink from the same well
as Mr Fairy-Dust-and-Rainbows.
It's the well of mediocrity; having drunk its waters, a person becomes
detached, deluded, loses touch with reality,
much like a cult member.

"I believe in our divine mission; yea, I shall follow the Messiah
though our path be strewn with thorns,
for he is the Chosen One, and the suffering, the suffering shall set YOU FREE !!"

[Scollop]

Lyon did not Develop that team you talk about. The question remains whether the stars will align for Ross Lyon and whether he can at least lay claim to helping build a top 4 team. How is it that the most feared team in 2009 can't kick a goal in the only quarter that matters?

The awesome team we loved to go and watch from 2004 onwards; the best Saints team that most of us ever saw in the last 40 odd years, was mainly due to the foundations laid by Lyon's predecessors and our good fortune in landing some of the best young talent in the country. The group that came so close in 2004/5, was always going to have unfinished business. A true team doesn't emerge in a season or two and it takes time when most of your young team are just teenagers.

I saw a similar thing with Beveridge, who everyome hails as the brilliant coach, and yes you have to hand it to the bloke, because all the stars alligned for him ( we all know that without the 1 week break after home and away he would not have done it!) But he got the chocolates - unlike Ross Lyon - but I really don't think he would have been as successful had it not been for his predecessor in Brendan McCartney

Yes, without the father son picks and the early draft picks it may have been a different story too and they were huge factors, but I believe McCartney had a reputation before he became a senior coach as being a very good developer of young talent and I think from what I saw he did that. He was a good teacher; perhaps didn't aspire to be a premiership coach 'as soon as others within the club wanted', and perhaps as a result of his longer term thinking he didn't see his senior players as being a part of the future success that he saw coming.

So the team that won it for the Doggies imho had it's strong foundations in the work from McCartney and the Saints team that was feared back in 2009 also had it's strong faoundations laid long before Ross Lyon set foot at Moorabbin.

Ok, Ross tried his best and Ross and the players are great mates, but who is responsible for us not outscoring our opponents in the second half or in the last quarter of the 2009 grand final? Should I forever believe Ross Lyon who stated that our poor kicking before half time lost us the match? Doesn't that sound to you like someone who does not take responsibility for his game plan and for his players that got outscored for an entire second half of football?

How do you dominate a season and how can you be so far in front on the ladder in home and away and end up without a goal in the last quarter of a grand final? Who is ultimately responsible? What went wrong when you were at 15 Wins and No Losses in home and away but you fall short on GF day? If you are at 16 Wins and No losses, then 17 Wins and No Losses, then ...What is the aim? Is it a McLellan trophy? How can you you be at least a lap in front for most of the race and then you run out of gas before the finish line? Who is responsible?

[Waltzing St Kilda]

I'd take Ro$$ Lyin' back, all is forgiven, because I don't recall many games -- if any -- where
the team came out and didn't give it a fair crack. That tells me he's able to enforce a winning
mentality. In contrast, I can't count the number of times Richo's boys have lumbered out and looked totally
listless, all at sea.

Don't want to warm old coals, but Ro$$'s big flaw -- the one that cost us GFs -- was his insistence on
playing role-playing mediocrities like Raph, Eddy and McQualter (though the latter was an expert tackler
and has clearly proved useful at Richmond).

[Scollop]

I'd take Ro$$ Lyin' back, all is forgiven, because I don't recall many games -- if any -- where
the team came out and didn't give it a fair crack. That tells me he's able to enforce a winning
mentality. In contrast, I can't count the number of times Richo's boys have lumbered out and looked totally
listless, all at sea.

Don't want to warm old coals, but Ro$$'s big flaw -- the one that cost us GFs -- was his insistence on
playing role-playing mediocrities like Raph, Eddy and McQualter (though the latter was an expert tackler
and has clearly proved useful at Richmond).

See that's where I differ with most. They were on the list, they earnt their spot and they were asked to represent the StKilda footy club and put their bodies on the line. Eddy played with a broken wrist or broken bone in his hand didn't he?

I'll support the players and their well being and mental health because they bled for the jumper ( the selfish and easy thing to do as a Saints supporetr is blame the players which is what Ross Lyon wnated everyone to do). Ross was in it for the money. He said it clearly for everyone when he referred to himself as a "career coach". Who the faarrk refers to themselves as if they are that important or as if they have any idea about where their career as an AFL coach is heading when they've failed twice on GF day?

It was convenient for the snake to lay blame on his players rather than say his game plan was flawed, or his planning was flawed, or his team selection was flawed. The trauma was theirs and he washed his faarken hands of any responsibility. There were no voices in the media that had any balls to come out and critically analyse the guy because there were powerful media heads like Walls and Roos and all their merry followers the talking heads on radio and in print that dared not put another point of view across.

[Drake Huggins]

Facts are NO other coach in our modern history has EVER developed a feared, dominating side like Lyon did. He commands respect and yes has a ton of mongrel and I think that Street brawling mongrelmis sadly now what we lack
I still think for Lyon to be a “great” coach (apart from flags) he needs to build a team - be interesting to see how he goes at Freo. Our players loved him but that doors done

Leigh Tudor gets my nod
Sheedy just laughable....was cooked a decade ago

Great post, teffers. 2009 was close to the perfect year. We were respected and feared. Think back to how much the opposition clubs and their supporters hated playing us. Not since Yabby's physically ferocious, read thuggish, teams of the 60's and 70's did others genuinely fear and respect us. Even GT's sublimely skilled teams of 04-05 came anywhere near to generating such respect. GT's teams were admired, but did have a certain fragility when things didn't go our way. How I wish RL coached the team from 2003 onwards, with GT in a Neil Balme style role as his right hand man. The most skilful list in our history, combined with the second most successful coach. RL wouldn't have remained our second most successful coach for long, had he had GT's list.

Leigh Tudor is an interesting one. A brilliant assistant wherever he's gone, I wonder why he's never been tried in a top job? Maybe he prefers to be the second banana, but I'd love to see how he'd go when in charge. He certainly has a great resume. As for that overrated, St.Kilda hating turd Sheedy, or as I call him Chauncey Gardener from the film, "Being There", he holds us in greater contempt than even fat rat's toss bag did. He's been senile for over a decade as well. That makes him the perfect candidate as far as our board is concerned.