Was our physical preparation sub standard in 2017?

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Mr Magic
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Re: Was our physical preparation sub standard in 2017?

Post: # 1711502Post Mr Magic »

sunsaint wrote:[If was ball I would have been on the phone to my manager half way up the race after 09 GF
I think it was much earlier than that - weeks earlier.
And that's the problem I have with your sentiments.
You're seemingly exonerating Ball's desire to move (and his subsequent manoeuvres to get there) on Lyon's non-playing of him in the GF.
I don't believe for one second that it was the catalyst at all.
I think he decided to defect to Collingwood well before that game.

Good on Collingwood for 'stealing' our IP by going after Ball (I'd love to know who made the initial approach?).
Similarly recognizing Max was gettable when he was left out of the GF team.
In one fell swoop they gained lots of 'inside info' on our game plan which had seemingly revolutionised football in 2009.


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Re: Was our physical preparation sub standard in 2017?

Post: # 1711503Post skeptic »

Mr Magic wrote:
sunsaint wrote:[If was ball I would have been on the phone to my manager half way up the race after 09 GF
I think it was much earlier than that - weeks earlier.
And that's the problem I have with your sentiments.
You're seemingly exonerating Ball's desire to move (and his subsequent manoeuvres to get there) on Lyon's non-playing of him in the GF.
I don't believe for one second that it was the catalyst at all.
I think he decided to defect to Collingwood well before that game.

Good on Collingwood for 'stealing' our IP by going after Ball (I'd love to know who made the initial approach?).
Similarly recognizing Max was gettable when he was left out of the GF team.
In one fell swoop they gained lots of 'inside info' on our game plan which had seemingly revolutionised football in 2009.
I don’t disagree with you MM, I just don’t resent Luke for that (not saying you do)

By all accounts he was a good kid, with a good attitude...
He’s dropped mid-2000 and almost publically shamed for his performance. Too slow not able to spread.

Was Ball so full of himself that he couldn’t fathom he needed to improve in some areas... nothing we saw before or after 2009 suggests that was the case.

The coaches form the belief that he’s not physically capable of reaching the standard anymore
Lyon who famously wouldn’t talk to players he didn’t rate I bet shows him some disdain

Collingwood show interest and make a great pitch... more money, clean slate

Our on field success continues. Luke wants a premiership with his mates... even if only to leave on good terms but I bet he wrestles with his head and heart.

He forces his way back... does everything asked of him, plays well in the first half of the GF and is benched for a half. Why? Not because he was forgotten (stupid)... ebecause they don’t rate him to play well and run out the the game.

Any lingering doubts are put to bed right there... Ball has no future with us.

He’s commits to Collingwood and feels he shd do right by the ppl giving him a lifeline as opposed to the coach that threw him under.

It was the only rationale thing to do. He stays loyal to us he gets cut.

No brainer


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Re: Was our physical preparation sub standard in 2017?

Post: # 1711505Post SaintPav »

Max and Luke screwed us, then to rub salt into the wounds they both endorsed Scott Watters for coach of St.Kilda.

I don't want to sound vulgar, but there's no other way to put it: they both f***ed us big time.


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Re: Was our physical preparation sub standard in 2017?

Post: # 1711507Post desertsaint »

ball and maxy bled for st kilda. lyon saw us as part of his cv.


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Re: Was our physical preparation sub standard in 2017?

Post: # 1711508Post sunsaint »

Could someone fill in the timing of this?
When Lyon came to the club he had starcevich as fitness coach who subsequently left and I think misson followed lyon to the club early on as well
Mulhearns(?) Came to club from Carlton as fitness coach
But after the hammies continued I think Lyon made that more meat and potatoes comment
So what's the separation of responsibility between the two?


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Re: Was our physical preparation sub standard in 2017?

Post: # 1711509Post SaintPav »

desertsaint wrote:ball and maxy bled for st kilda. lyon saw us as part of his cv.
Appeal to emotion.

They still ended up screwing us.


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Re: Was our physical preparation sub standard in 2017?

Post: # 1711511Post skeptic »

SaintPav wrote:
desertsaint wrote:ball and maxy bled for st kilda. lyon saw us as part of his cv.
Appeal to emotion.

They still ended up screwing us.
:? :? :shock:

Max screwed us how exactly?
He was pushed/cut off the list after we chose Dawson for the 09 8hrs after he was discharged from an overnight hospitalisation where he got fluids all night... he took a job as an assistant coach and actually did his best at it.

And you’re content with the argument that someone jumping before they were pushed was a dog act on us.

The concept of self-interest is some horrible thing... heck Lyon did it too when he got the opportunity for more money for longer as opposed to cleaning up the mess he made with us


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Re: Was our physical preparation sub standard in 2017?

Post: # 1711512Post Drake Huggins »

As Paul Keating famously said, "In a race, always back self interest. At least you know it will be trying."


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Re: Was our physical preparation sub standard in 2017?

Post: # 1711515Post desertsaint »

SaintPav wrote:
desertsaint wrote:ball and maxy bled for st kilda. lyon saw us as part of his cv.
Appeal to emotion.

They still ended up screwing us.
so did lyon.
if i put myself in their shoes i can't find much wrong with what they did. lyon however retired players on the spot, lied to the club, and oversaw the worst offield behaviour by the club since the days of the disco.


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Re: Was our physical preparation sub standard in 2017?

Post: # 1711518Post SaintPav »

Christ, don't go all moral relativist on me.

I wasn't trying to make an ethical argument; I was just stating a fact!


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Re: Was our physical preparation sub standard in 2017?

Post: # 1711520Post Jacks Back »

What's all this got to do with "Was our physical preparation sub standard in 2017?"


As ex-president Peter Summers said:
“If we are going to be a contender, we may as well plan to win the bloody thing.”


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Re: Was our physical preparation sub standard in 2017?

Post: # 1711553Post Numpty »

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Re: Was our physical preparation sub standard in 2017?

Post: # 1711608Post The_President »

There is a smaller group of the younger brigade that certainly enjoy the party scene.

This group might've also recruited other players who were previously fairly vanilla.

Nothing to worry about yet... Young boys will be boys, hopefully they grow out of it... One of the leaders seems like he did last year.

Regardless though, with such a young list, it's something that needs to be monitored. Because if some don't grow out of it, they go from a budding star to a player that never reached their potential very quickly.


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Re: Was our physical preparation sub standard in 2017?

Post: # 1711612Post Drake Huggins »

There are a couple who will be moving very close to that category if they don't fire this year, Pres.


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Re: Was our physical preparation sub standard in 2017?

Post: # 1711617Post The_President »

Drake Huggins wrote:There are a couple who will be moving very close to that category if they don't fire this year, Pres.

The professionalism has to come from the top down, I'm not saying the club fails in this department because it would be a very delicate balance between letting the young blokes be young blokes, but also getting them to understand that they are also professional athletes, and that requires some sacrifice.


Look at the most successful clubs of recent times
- Hawks
- Cats
- Pies
- Richmond

Ignoring game/coaching style, all of these clubs have a few things in common.
- Strong leadership from the top down (sometimes outspoken)
- The senior players created the club culture that lead to the success
- Collingwood might be the exception because they were so young, but with the others clubs, guys like Scarlett, Harley, Ling, Hodge, Mitchell, Cotchin, Rance all lead & created the culture, took the pay cuts required to get the best team together on the park all at once.

And most importantly... They stood by their young guys when they f**ked up.
Swan, Shaw, Martin, Stevie J and a whole host of others for incidents that might not have made the public eye.

Young guys are going to f**k up, as a club we need to understand this and support them.

This is something that I've always loved about Eddie McGuire. So many of those guys from the "Ratpack" era would've been sent on their way by other clubs. Even with the DeGoey situation right now... The first incident would've been a slap on the wrist & a lecture about being young, making mistakes, but understanding that he's going to be in the spotlight & he has to make some sacrifices... I doubt it was as nice this time around, more along the lines of "We stood by you, and we're going to stand by you again. But if you f**k up again, you've got no one to blame but yourself... You owe us, not put your head down & work your ass off"


Interesting 18-24 months ahead


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Re: Was our physical preparation sub standard in 2017?

Post: # 1711626Post desertsaint »

SaintPav wrote:Christ, don't go all moral relativist on me.

I wasn't trying to make an ethical argument; I was just stating a fact!
haha. sorry. as you said - appeal to emotion. i loved maxy and disliked lyon from the moment he walked into the club and mumbled some s***.


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