Unfulfilled talent over the past 60 years

This unofficial St Kilda Saints fan forum is for people of all ages and all posts must be respectful.

Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators

Unfulfilled talent over the past 60 years

Postby leighsaintsince66 » Wed 20 Dec 2017 1:12pm

I sometimes wonder how the Saints would have performed if certain players had managed to fulfill their potential at the club

You know what I mean... Players who had injuries at pivotal times, had off / on field issues, or simply left the club.

I can name ten ex players to start with, in no particular order:

1. Brian Gleeson - Never played again after his Brownlow Medal - Imagine if he was fit in the early - mid '60's
2. John McIntosh - One of the most skilful of the big players- Horrible knee injury curtailed his career
3. Justin Koschitske - I thought he was as good as Roo for a while there. Played injured too many times, lack of awareness etc.
4. Rod Owen - One of the most skilful, smart fowards. Injuries and off field issues...
5. Bill Stephenson - What a great, immovable full forward we could have had in the mid 60's. Did his knee...
6. Xavier Clark - Sublime skills - Pity about his hamstrings
7. Robert Muir - Supremely gifted - Career ruined by hecklers, as well as his short temper
8. Stephen Rae - Gifted half forward - Issues with coach, went to Richmond
9. Joel Smith - Terrible knee injury just when he was blossoming. Imagine him playing in the 1997 finals? Went to the Hawks
10. Matt Maguire - Very good centre half back, character who was cursed with injuries

I am sure that I have left out many others, eg Russell Greene to Hawks etc.

Thoughts?
leighsaintsince66
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed 28 Nov 2012 1:06pm

Re: Unfulfilled talent over the past 60 years

Postby saintsRrising » Wed 20 Dec 2017 2:24pm

Clark Maguire McIntosh
Jeffries Perovic Black
Smith Greig Muir
Owen Hall Gorozidis
Foschini Stephenson OBrien


Everitt
McAdam
Gellie

G Sidebottom Smith Rae Heatley
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
User avatar
saintsRrising
Saintsational Legend
 
Posts: 26680
Joined: Mon 15 Mar 2004 11:07am
Location: Off to St Kilda Scotland in 2018

Re: Unfulfilled talent over the past 60 years

Postby asiu » Wed 20 Dec 2017 2:26pm

i always thought that luke penny going down hurt us bigtime
Image
.name the ways , thought manipulates the State of Presence away.
asiu
Saintsational Legend
 
Posts: 5018
Joined: Thu 08 Apr 2010 8:11pm

Re: Unfulfilled talent over the past 60 years

Postby Drake Huggins » Wed 20 Dec 2017 2:46pm

asiu wrote:i always thought that luke penny going down hurt us bigtime


It certainly did. Penny's knee was so bad, he ended up having chemotherapy on it, a radical attempt to ease the chronic inflammation. His dad rang 3AW at the time and bagged the shyte out of GT for playing him when hurt. A bit like Kosi in 2002. Remember Kosi's dad going off at GT and the club for playing Justin with a bad back. I agree with you, asiu. Kosi was almost as good as roo. That head injury diminished him greatly. Another one was Geoff "the missing" Linke only played a couple of games at centre-half forward, marked everything in sight and then did his knee, never to play seniors with us again.
"Is this the right room for an argument?"
"I told you once."
"No, you didn't."
"Yes, I did."
"Listen, an argument isn't just the automatic gainsaying of anything the other person says, it's a series of statements designed to support a particular conclusion."
"No, it isn't."
"Oh, I've had enough of this."
"No you haven't"
"Oh shut up."
User avatar
Drake Huggins
Club Player
 
Posts: 906
Joined: Wed 04 Oct 2017 4:28pm
Location: The G.G. Huggins Stand

Re: Unfulfilled talent over the past 60 years

Postby Linton Lodger » Wed 20 Dec 2017 3:49pm

Drake Huggins wrote:
asiu wrote:i always thought that luke penny going down hurt us bigtime


It certainly did. Penny's knee was so bad, he ended up having chemotherapy on it, a radical attempt to ease the chronic inflammation. His dad rang 3AW at the time and bagged the shyte out of GT for playing him when hurt. A bit like Kosi in 2002. Remember Kosi's dad going off at GT and the club for playing Justin with a bad back. I agree with you, asiu. Kosi was almost as good as roo. That head injury diminished him greatly. Another one was Geoff "the missing" Linke only played a couple of games at centre-half forward, marked everything in sight and then did his knee, never to play seniors with us again.


Kosi was awesome, simply awesome in 2005 and I thought more important to us than Riewoldt at the time. He was a giant, there is no doubt the head injury took its toll. However, he also was sacrificed playing at full forward under Lyon, he wasn't a key forward at all. He was a ruckman through and through and would have been devastating as a 2nd Ruck (to Gardiner) rotating through the forward line as a third tall taking the third best defender.

Alas we had no one to fill the key forward position, if only Hamill's career had not been curtailed, it may have been all different. Two Premierships different.
Linton Lodger
Club Player
 
Posts: 1287
Joined: Mon 18 Aug 2014 2:07pm

Re: Unfulfilled talent over the past 60 years

Postby Viking3 » Wed 20 Dec 2017 4:35pm

Graeme Gellie: B&F in '78, pretty much his first season. Hurt his knee badly early '79, I think, and was never the same again.
Geoff Linke: Tall CHF from SA. Came off the bench in his first game (Rd 1 Melb @ MCG). Started at CHF rd2 v Swans at Moorabbin and tore them apart in the first quarter, marked everything that came his way. Looked awesome. Hurt his knee early in the 2nd and never played again.
Give me one flag & I'll go to my grave a happy man.
Viking3
Club Player
 
Posts: 324
Joined: Mon 04 Sep 2006 10:21am
Location: McKinnon

Re: Unfulfilled talent over the past 60 years

Postby saynta » Wed 20 Dec 2017 4:52pm

Paul Dodds
Jimmy Guyatt
Ian Mullar
Ross oakley
Barry Pascoe

just off the top of my head.
saynta
Saintsational Legend
 
Posts: 5573
Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 3:53pm

Re: Unfulfilled talent over the past 60 years

Postby CQ SAINT » Wed 20 Dec 2017 5:03pm

Mark Jackson. Frontal lobotomy might have saved his career.
CQ SAINT
Club Player
 
Posts: 621
Joined: Sat 12 Sep 2015 1:03pm

Re: Unfulfilled talent over the past 60 years

Postby parkeysainter » Wed 20 Dec 2017 5:10pm

Tim Allen from early 90's.
Try to be a rainbow in someone's cloud

In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death, taxes and the St Kilda FC
User avatar
parkeysainter
Club Player
 
Posts: 1335
Joined: Thu 20 Jul 2017 2:59am

Re: Unfulfilled talent over the past 60 years

Postby saint64 » Wed 20 Dec 2017 8:00pm

Jason Cripps, Luke Ball
saint64
Club Player
 
Posts: 473
Joined: Sat 13 Mar 2004 12:18am
Location: Perth,WA

Re: Unfulfilled talent over the past 60 years

Postby on the outer » Wed 20 Dec 2017 8:14pm

Caydn Beetham
Jarryd Allen
Jayden Attard
Fergus Watts
Barry Brooks
Damen Shaw

And while he didn’t play a senior game I’ve always wondered what Stephen Gaertner would have been if he had stuck with it .
on the outer
Club Player
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue 20 Sep 2011 9:50am
Location: Level 3

Re: Unfulfilled talent over the past 60 years

Postby Vazelos » Wed 20 Dec 2017 10:09pm

One left field that many may not think of was a player in the late 80s called John Peter Budge, this kid had serious talent but had a bad back. He excited me for awhile in 1987 I think it was....
I thought Craig Devonport had some serious X factor talent but just didn't have the fitness and commitment to take his talent the next level.
Russel Jeffries was a talent that we didn't get enough out of.
Rod Owen is a well known great talent that ruined his career... he was ahead of Plugger in 1985-6 such was his talent and expected ceiling.
I agree with Joel Smith he was amazing in 1997 at half forward flank... a prodigious talent and that really hurt us after hitting his knee against the Scum at the MCG....
There are so many others...
Vazelos
Club Player
 
Posts: 787
Joined: Sun 12 Sep 2010 1:17am

Re: Unfulfilled talent over the past 60 years

Postby CQ SAINT » Wed 20 Dec 2017 10:26pm

Somehow I dont think Luke Ball would put himself into this category. He might think he had 22 mates at the Saints who should be though.
CQ SAINT
Club Player
 
Posts: 621
Joined: Sat 12 Sep 2015 1:03pm

Re: Unfulfilled talent over the past 60 years

Postby Dave McNamara » Thu 21 Dec 2017 1:04am

Seems a certain Saintsationalist is way too modest. I can't believe that this bloke hasn't scored a mention yet. :shock:

Was widely considered to be a star in the making, but for some issues with application and dedication.
http://www.saints.com.au/news/2014-03-17/the-fivest-kilda-cult-heroes

Image




(And for only $1.50 he can now be yours. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VFL-Scanlens-1983-Con-Gorozidis-St-Kilda-164/202127791525?hash=item2f0fc155a5:g:NpkAAOSwg8taHQK- 8-) )
It's Dave, man. Will you open up? I got the stuff with me! -------Who?
Dave, man. Open up ------------------------------------------ -----Dave???
Yeah, Dave. ---------------------------------------------------------Dave's not here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOiG1hArSps&feature=player_detailpage

Matt Finnis CEO wrote:"St Kilda is an iconic part of Melbourne which has an identifiable attitude and spirit that is really aligned with where we want to take the club. It is grounded but it is aspirational, it is eclectic, everyone belongs, and we say how do we capture that as an identity? It would be a good move on so many levels for the club."
User avatar
Dave McNamara
Saintsational Legend
 
Posts: 5335
Joined: Wed 21 Sep 2011 2:44pm
Location: Slotting another one from 94.5m out. Opposition flood? Bring it on...! Keep the faith Saintas!

Re: Unfulfilled talent over the past 60 years

Postby asiu » Thu 21 Dec 2017 1:17am

Linton Lodger wrote:
Drake Huggins wrote:
asiu wrote:i always thought that luke penny going down hurt us bigtime


It certainly did. Penny's knee was so bad, he ended up having chemotherapy on it, a radical attempt to ease the chronic inflammation. His dad rang 3AW at the time and bagged the shyte out of GT for playing him when hurt. A bit like Kosi in 2002. Remember Kosi's dad going off at GT and the club for playing Justin with a bad back. I agree with you, asiu. Kosi was almost as good as roo. That head injury diminished him greatly. Another one was Geoff "the missing" Linke only played a couple of games at centre-half forward, marked everything in sight and then did his knee, never to play seniors with us again.


Kosi was awesome, simply awesome in 2005 and I thought more important to us than Riewoldt at the time. He was a giant, there is no doubt the head injury took its toll. However, he also was sacrificed playing at full forward under Lyon, he wasn't a key forward at all. He was a ruckman through and through and would have been devastating as a 2nd Ruck (to Gardiner) rotating through the forward line as a third tall taking the third best defender.

Alas we had no one to fill the key forward position, if only Hamill's career had not been curtailed, it may have been all different. Two Premierships different.


i always believed the Kos could of been a great full forward
but Roo was always the focal point where ever he was

Roo out of the forward line and Kos woulda been a star at FF i reckon

'knowing' He wasn't the Man ... hurt his confidence n sense of self
Image
.name the ways , thought manipulates the State of Presence away.
asiu
Saintsational Legend
 
Posts: 5018
Joined: Thu 08 Apr 2010 8:11pm

Re: Unfulfilled talent over the past 60 years

Postby Beno88 » Thu 21 Dec 2017 8:19am

parkeysainter wrote:Tim Allen from early 90's.


+1
Beno88
Club Player
 
Posts: 1269
Joined: Tue 10 Jul 2007 11:14am
Location: Cheltenham

Re: Unfulfilled talent over the past 60 years

Postby kosifantutti » Thu 21 Dec 2017 9:25am

Spencer White
Only 2 shares available in the Saintsational Brandon White sponsorship. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=94296
User avatar
kosifantutti
Saintsational Legend
 
Posts: 5403
Joined: Fri 21 Jan 2005 9:06am
Location: Back in town

Re: Unfulfilled talent over the past 60 years

Postby Drake Huggins » Thu 21 Dec 2017 11:25am

John Georgiou. The work experience kid.
"Is this the right room for an argument?"
"I told you once."
"No, you didn't."
"Yes, I did."
"Listen, an argument isn't just the automatic gainsaying of anything the other person says, it's a series of statements designed to support a particular conclusion."
"No, it isn't."
"Oh, I've had enough of this."
"No you haven't"
"Oh shut up."
User avatar
Drake Huggins
Club Player
 
Posts: 906
Joined: Wed 04 Oct 2017 4:28pm
Location: The G.G. Huggins Stand

Re: Unfulfilled talent over the past 60 years

Postby saint64 » Thu 21 Dec 2017 12:17pm

CQ SAINT wrote:Somehow I dont think Luke Ball would put himself into this category. He might think he had 22 mates at the Saints who should be though.

He didn't fulfil his potential while at the Saints (which is the essence of the thread). He was cruelled by OP over his last few seasons with us - as I think one commentator said, he could "barely kick over a jam jar". He could argue that he fulfilled his potential as soon as he left us.
saint64
Club Player
 
Posts: 473
Joined: Sat 13 Mar 2004 12:18am
Location: Perth,WA

Re: Unfulfilled talent over the past 60 years

Postby bigcarl » Thu 21 Dec 2017 1:24pm

Lockett.

Okay, he’s recognised as one of the greatest players ever to pull on a boot ... I think easily the greatest. So it may be stretching it a bit to call him an unfulfilled talent.

What he did with us, IMO, was largely on pure, natural talent. Imagine how good he could have been in better teams with better support staff around him.

It’s frightening.

He was probably capable of 175-200 goals in a season in a really good side the way football was played in those times.
bigcarl
Saintsational Legend
 
Posts: 15387
Joined: Thu 11 Mar 2004 1:36am

Re: Unfulfilled talent over the past 60 years

Postby St Chris » Thu 21 Dec 2017 3:29pm

Kosi got worked out pretty quickly by defenders when he was at FF under Ross.

If he got a free run at the pack he could latch onto anything. All you needed to do was apply a little bit of body on him on his way to the contest (ie. as he went to launch) and he was gone, out of the contest completely. He either lacked the balance to correct, or lacked the upper body strength to stand up to the contact.
User avatar
St Chris
SS Hall of Fame
 
Posts: 1988
Joined: Wed 05 Apr 2006 2:20pm

Re: Unfulfilled talent over the past 60 years

Postby Vazelos » Thu 21 Dec 2017 3:48pm

bigcarl wrote:Lockett.

Okay, he’s recognised as one of the greatest players ever to pull on a boot ... I think easily the greatest. So it may be stretching it a bit to call him an unfulfilled talent.

What he did with us, IMO, was largely on pure, natural talent. Imagine how good he could have been in better teams with better support staff around him.

It’s frightening.

He was probably capable of 175-200 goals in a season in a really good side the way football was played in those times.



Agreed he didnt play a full season at his peak from 1988-1994- missed 40% of football in this time with suspensions and injuries...
Its hard to believe what he would have kicked had he had a full season with finals....

In my opinion, 1989 was his absolute zenith where he was at the peak of his powers when he was 23 years of age....

If you saw what he kicked in 9 odd games before he whacked Mc Kenna & got 4 weeks its mind boggling...

Arguably the greatest player that ever played the game didnt get the best out of himself in his peak years... thats scary....
Vazelos
Club Player
 
Posts: 787
Joined: Sun 12 Sep 2010 1:17am

Re: Unfulfilled talent over the past 60 years

Postby Devilhead » Thu 21 Dec 2017 5:31pm

Vazelos wrote:

Agreed he didnt play a full season at his peak from 1988-1994- missed 40% of football in this time with suspensions and injuries...
Its hard to believe what he would have kicked had he had a full season with finals....

In my opinion, 1989 was his absolute zenith where he was at the peak of his powers when he was 23 years of age....

If you saw what he kicked in 9 odd games before he whacked Mc Kenna & got 4 weeks its mind boggling...

Arguably the greatest player that ever played the game didnt get the best out of himself in his peak years... thats scary....


78 goals in 11 games - 9, 10, 8, 5, 5, 6, 6, 9, 12, 3, 5 - he kicked 24pts as well and we only won 5 of those games

He had 52 goals after the first 8 games in 1990 before another injury curtailed that season

But it was his incredible start in 1991 that will never be topped - 12, 10, 12 and that was in Rounds 7 - 9 - he missed the first 6 rounds that season - 127 goals in only 17 games @ 7.5 goals a game - he had 50 after 6 games - and 78 after 11 games which was the same as his tally in 1989 - his end to 1991 was devastating with hauls of 13,10,11,9 the last of which was in the elimination final v Geelong :evil:

Plugger was a dead set freak the likes of which we may never witness again
The Devil makes work for idle hands!!!
User avatar
Devilhead
Saintsational Legend
 
Posts: 4560
Joined: Mon 08 Mar 2004 11:56pm

Re: Unfulfilled talent over the past 60 years

Postby Drake Huggins » Thu 21 Dec 2017 5:47pm

Robert Muir. An incredibly gifted player, with devastating behavioural deficits, on field.
"Is this the right room for an argument?"
"I told you once."
"No, you didn't."
"Yes, I did."
"Listen, an argument isn't just the automatic gainsaying of anything the other person says, it's a series of statements designed to support a particular conclusion."
"No, it isn't."
"Oh, I've had enough of this."
"No you haven't"
"Oh shut up."
User avatar
Drake Huggins
Club Player
 
Posts: 906
Joined: Wed 04 Oct 2017 4:28pm
Location: The G.G. Huggins Stand

Re: Unfulfilled talent over the past 60 years

Postby Devilhead » Thu 21 Dec 2017 6:51pm

My avatar is Robbie Muir flying high against Carlton in Round 5 1975 at Moorabbin

Image
The Devil makes work for idle hands!!!
User avatar
Devilhead
Saintsational Legend
 
Posts: 4560
Joined: Mon 08 Mar 2004 11:56pm

Next

Return to Saintsational Fan Forum (open to all ages)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: bigred, Bing [Bot], BringBackMadDog, bushy, CQ SAINT, Harves Man, Impatient Sainter, longtimesaint, one point, repta, The Barometer, Yorkeys and 38 guests