Times change, Saints don't.

This unofficial St Kilda Saints fan forum is for people of all ages and all posts must be respectful.

Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators

Times change, Saints don't.

Postby Dave McNamara » Wed 06 Dec 2017 11:15pm

Note when this piece was written... :lol:


St Kilda - the mystery side

By Old Boy.


Reg "Old Boy" Wilmott pondered the mystery of St Kilda in 1940, the side that was, he wrote in the Australasian, consistently inconsistent.

EACH club in the Victorian Football League has its own distinctive character. Year after year we see the same points illuminated. Collingwood has developed a system and it builds up to that. Richmond is noted for its determination and rugged play. Melbourne specialises in dash and short passing, and so on. St. Kilda has become famous for the consistency of its inconsistency. One can never tell just what the Saints will do. Beaten by one of the clubs low down on the list this week,they send one of the leaders toppling the next. If variety is charm, then St. Kilda must be charming!

ESTABLISHED in 1873, St. Kilda has had a long record of frustrated promise. There have been times when the Saints seemed strong, times when they have appeared as prospective premiere, only to disappoint their supporters who have loyally supported them through thick and thin. In the period of nearly 70 years the St. Kilda club has been in existence, all it has been able to master in the way of places is third in 1874, the only time it was placed in the old Association, and runners-up in 1913, third in 1907 and 1908, and fourth in 1918, 1922, and 1939. Why St. Kilda has not a better record no one can explain. There may be in the seaside air; but if so why have South Melbourne and Geelong not been affected? With flourishing suburbs like Brighton and Caulfield and densely populated districts like Prahran and Malvern to draw from, and with generous supporters who have always been ready with their cheque books, St. Kilda should have done better. No team starts off the season with higher hopes, no team seems to be better fitted, but just when hopes are highest, then comes the inevitable slip back into the doldrums once again. St. Kilda was represented by G. L. Skinner and H. Jennings at the famous meeting of delegates on May 12, 1874, when the rules were drawn up, and St. Kilda has always taken a prominent part in the affairs of the controlling body. Its representative, "Gillie" Wilson, was one of the prime movers in the breakaway in 1896 which led to the establishment of the League.

Curley Jones
AMONG the earliest players were Tom Riddell, the captain, one of the finest sportsmen who ever lived; Gerald Moule, and J. Terry, who shared the vice-captaincy between them; Fred Hughes, afterwards captain of Essendon; Jim Osborne, George Rout, described in "The Footballer" as "always admired, possesses great judgment and uses it to the best advantage." Alf Walker, Archie Skene, Tyrell Evans, Willie Campbell, Ned Carr, George Moody ("the little wonder"), Jack Hamilton, Charlie Payne, the Sandilands brothers, and the Oakley brothers, Jack Menzies, George Miller, and Pat and "Jumbo" Carter, one of the best big men I ever saw. After a few years there was an upheaval and several of the leading players transferred to Essendon. Many of those early players came from Brighton and Elwood, but they went to Essendon, and since then St. Kilda has not been able to enlist the sympathy of those districts.

AFTER that St. Kilda slipped back, and even dropped out of senior ranks for a while. Its ground in those early days was between the present ground and the bowling green, the area now used as a car park. It was very hard and unfenced, but on it there were some very fine matches. There were some prosperous junior clubs in St. Kilda, notably the Esplanade, which had its ground just about where Luna Park now stands; South St. Kilda, with its headquarters a little farther on: St. Kilda Alma, playing at the back of the cricket-ground; and West St. Kilda. Strange to say, few of these clubs provided players for the senior team, other clubs gaining the benefit.

ST. KILDA was always a good sporting side, and, though its successes were few, its men always enjoyed themselves. In the late eighties and early nineties there were some fine players at St. Kilda and among them was Alf. Smith, one of the best all-rounders the game has produced. What a lovely drop kick he was and what a fine sportsman. Others of that period were Pat Harper and Peter Forman, strong, determined players: Billy Lockett, "Molly" Abrahams. Monte Smith, George Ramsden, R. Kilmartin, C. Allard, H. Bennett, and three Brighton players - Harry Lindgren, also a cyclist and oarsman; Billy Hicks, and "Dookie" Ferguson - but most of the Brighton fellows went to Essendon or Melbourne.

ONE of the heroes of that period was E. L. ("Curly") Jones, now a member of the Melbourne City Council, who has the unique record of being unopposed for his seat five times in succession. He played with St. Kilda from 1892 to 1900, and filled every office in connection with the club except coach. He was a player, vice-captain, captain, treasurer, secretary, vice-president, president, and delegate to the League. There was nothing of the "Pooh-Bah" about "Curly" Jones. He adorned every office.

AS a player he was a clever little rover, with a keen sense of humour, and worried the big fellows by his impudence. He was not much over 5ft. in height, and he would tackle the big fellows. He and Tracker Forbes, the tall Essendon follower, well over 6ft., were keen rivals but great friends. One day at East Melbourne the ball had been kicked into Jolimont terrace, and while the rucks were waiting for it "Curly" was, as usual, inviting all his opponents to mortal combat. To his astonishment, Forbes caught him by the scruff of the neck and put him over the fence with the admonition, "Get out of this, you little pest, and stay there." Quite unabashed, the little rover scrambled back into play. On another occasion, at St. Kilda, Forbes was running with the ball, when "Curly" chased him, and, taking a running jump, landed on the giant's back and hung on with his arms round the neck of Forbes, who ran on bouncing the ball. J. J. Trait was the umpire, and as he blew his whistle play stopped. Forbes shook his opponent off and proceeded to take the free-kick which Jones disputed. The umpire said "round the neck,' but Jones claimed "holding the ball." Trait, however, insisted, and Forbes took the free-kick, but remarked, "I did not feel the little blighter." It was good sport in those days.

Joe Hogan
WITH the new century St. Kilda "battled on, always dangerous but never consistent. It is extraordinary how a club retains its characteristics. There were a lot of public school boys playing then. Cecil Sandford, now sportsmaster at Scotch College, was captain in 1901, and among his team were Harold Stewart, who has just retired from the head mastership of Wesley College, and Doc. Pearce, his schoolfellow; "Billy" O'Hara, from Brighton Grammar School; Archie Muirhead, Jim Matthews, and Joe Hogan, one of the finest high marks the game has produced. He played for 12 years with St. Kilda, and is still a staunch supporter of the club.

AND then we come to another champion, Victor Barwick, who was associated with Dave McNamara in so many of his triumphs, Vic. Barwick was a great rover and general utility player. Then there were Jorrie and Chris. Bant, A. Clymo, Jack Julian, Jim Smith, one of the steady, reliable players, who was never beaten. He had a great scheme to take two teams to America to play exhibition games with a view to establishing the Australian game in the land of the Stars and Stripes. It was a good scheme, but he could not finance it.

TWO others to whom special reference must be made are "Sugar" Sparrow and W. ("Ginger") Stewart. Sparrow was a keen judge of the game, a cool, deliberate player, and a capable leader. He led both Richmond and St. Kilda, and was also a scientific coach. "Ginger" Stewart had few superiors as a dasher, and his strength and enthusiasm made him invaluable.

THE year 1913 was a golden year for St. Kilda, for it played off in the premiership, being defeated in the grand final by Fitzroy by 7-14 to 5-13. St. Kilda was fourth on the first round, and beat South Melbourne by 12-12 to 6-5 in the semi-final. St. Kilda romped over Fitzroy in the final, winning by' 10-10 to 6-9. In the grand final, however, Fitzroy turned the tables and won after a great contest.

ST. KILDA had a splendid team that season, with Vic. Cumberland, Billy Woodcock, and Alex. Millhouse (roving) as its first ruck. It had a very strong defence with Harry Lever in goal and Harry Hattam and R. Harris on either side of him. The first line of defence was most formidable, Wels Eicke, Gordon Dangerfield, and Reg. Ellis forming a dashing half-back line. In the centre Billy Schmidt was invincible, and Bob Bowden and R. Collins were brilliant wing players. Half-forward Roy Cazaly, Pat Lynch, and Percy Jory were constantly bombarding the goal; Cazaly and Jory also taking a turn in the ruck. E. Sellars was the crack goal-kicker, scoring 54 goals in the season, two less than Jimmy Freake, of Fitzroy, who headed the list, and one ahead of Roy Park, of the University. He had with him in attack George Morrissey and D. Baird. It was a well-balanced side, full of dash and skill, but it lacked just that little bit of confidence and experience that is so essential in a grand final.

ST.KILDA did not appear in the finals again until 1918, when only six clubs competed on account of the war. The star players at that time, in addition to those mentioned, were Gerry Balme, Jacky James, Harold Moyes, a very clever forward, and S. B. Gravenall, of Wesley College.

And so the years went on, St. Kilda maintaining its reputation as uncertain, hard to beat on its own ground, but easy victims away from home. In 1920 the team was last on the list. Roy Cazaly was captain and coach, but he was badly supported. Vic Cumberland was going off, in fact, he had never recovered his old form after the war, and Billy Schmidt, W. P. Cameron, a big fellow from Orbost, and others played well, but there was trouble and the committee had to take action by suspending some of the players.

Dave McNamara
ROY CAZALY transferred to South Melbourne in 1921, and Charlie Ricketts became captain, with S. Williams as vice-captain. The team moved up one place, Essendon being last, two points below St. Kilda. "Barney" Carr was the centre-man, and E. V. Collins, J. Jenkins, the iron ruckman; R. de Garis, Bill Cubbins, R. Curtayne, H. Keeley, Harold Moyes, who was sixth on the goal-kicking list with 32 goals, all played well.

ST. KILDA was sixth in 1923, when Dave McNamara was captain, with Bill Cubbins as his first lieutenant. His side won eight matches and lost eight. Dave McNamara was the inspiration of the side. Normally he played half-forward in the centre, but force of circumstances made him play half-back centre sometimes and take his turn in the ruck at others. J. Jenkins, with Aubrey McKenzie as his shepherder and Jacky James as rover, provided a strong ruck, and across the centre Horrie Mason. "Barney" Carr, and R. de Garis were very useful. It was McNamara's last season, and all the football world would have been delighted had he been able to end his long and brilliant career as leader of the premier team.

DAVE MCNAMARA had nearly 20 years of senior football, and was one of the great players. Well over 6ft" with a wonderful pair of hands and an ability to kick the ball long distances, he was a commanding figure. He was of those who had the real champion's character to rise superior to his surroundings. There were many games in which Dave McNamara dominated the play. He played with St. Kilda regularly from 1905 to 1909, then with Essendon Association (VFA, not the VFL Effndrug mob) from 1909 to 1912, and finally returned to St. Kilda after the war, and finished his football career there in 1923. He played 145 games for St. Kilda and 77 for Essendon Association. And altogether kicked 500 goals. He kicked 18 goals in one match for Essendon Association against Melbourne City in 1912, and in that year kicked 107 goals, each being a record. He holds the record for a place-kick, 86 yards 1ft. at Launceston in 1913, and kicked 84 yards 2ft. 5in. at St. Kilda in 1910, and 76 yards 8in. at Sydney in 1914. One kick of his at St. Kilda is credited with having covered 93 yards during a match Collingwood v. St. Kilda. It was a windy day, and the measurement was not taken until after the match, and then only by guesswork, but it was a wonderful kick, anyhow. In one match, St. Kilda v. Geelong, at St. Kilda, he had 12 shots for goal and kicked 10 goals, another shot hitting the post. He was player, captain, delegate, committee man, selector, coach, and finally president of St. Kilda, a record held by few. His successor as goal-kicker at St. Kilda, Bill Mohr, has worthily upheld his reputation. :mrgreen:

Jack Irvine
ST. KILDA was last again in 1924. Wels Eicke was captain, with H. Lenne vice-captain. Joe Scales and L. Reynolds with Jacky James formed the ruck, and among other notable were Colin Watson, who in the following year won the Brownlow medal; Cyril Gambetta, "Flops" Phillips, P. Scully, "Hazzy" Grounds, and J. Milne, who all played well, but, like all St. Kilda teams, the side was unreliable.

AS one looks through the lists in various years one finds plenty of good players but few good teams wearing St. Kilda colours. Just glance at some of these names - "Horry" Mason, captain in 1927; R. (Tiger) Bence, Wally Gunyon, Barney Carr, J. Shelton, E. Sanneman, H. Neil, and J. Dalton were often under notice, but there were too many weak spots.

BILL CUBBINS led the team in 1928, when the team was sixth, and in 1929, when it reached the semi-finals. Bill Mohr made his first appearance for St. Kilda in 1929, and he is still playing. "Danny" Warr, Percy Outram, E. Loveless, C. Morden, A. Ludlow, F. Phillips, Bill Roberts, and S. Hepburn were the leading players.

Footnotes
Title: St KIlda - the mystery side

Author: Old Boy

Publisher: The Australasian (Melbourne, Vic: 1864-1946)

Date: Saturday, 15 Jun 1940, p.14 (Article)





https://australianfootball.com/articles/view/st+kilda+-+the+mystery+side/1192
Last edited by Dave McNamara on Wed 06 Dec 2017 11:18pm, edited 1 time in total.
It's Dave, man. Will you open up? I got the stuff with me! -------Who?
Dave, man. Open up ------------------------------------------ -----Dave???
Yeah, Dave. ---------------------------------------------------------Dave's not here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOiG1hArSps&feature=player_detailpage

Matt Finnis CEO wrote:"St Kilda is an iconic part of Melbourne which has an identifiable attitude and spirit that is really aligned with where we want to take the club. It is grounded but it is aspirational, it is eclectic, everyone belongs, and we say how do we capture that as an identity? It would be a good move on so many levels for the club."
User avatar
Dave McNamara
Saintsational Legend
 
Posts: 5335
Joined: Wed 21 Sep 2011 2:44pm
Location: Slotting another one from 94.5m out. Opposition flood? Bring it on...! Keep the faith Saintas!

Re: Times change, Saints don't.

Postby Dave McNamara » Wed 06 Dec 2017 11:17pm

Saintas' historic footage.

https://youtu.be/AEJBdI3lBw4
It's Dave, man. Will you open up? I got the stuff with me! -------Who?
Dave, man. Open up ------------------------------------------ -----Dave???
Yeah, Dave. ---------------------------------------------------------Dave's not here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOiG1hArSps&feature=player_detailpage

Matt Finnis CEO wrote:"St Kilda is an iconic part of Melbourne which has an identifiable attitude and spirit that is really aligned with where we want to take the club. It is grounded but it is aspirational, it is eclectic, everyone belongs, and we say how do we capture that as an identity? It would be a good move on so many levels for the club."
User avatar
Dave McNamara
Saintsational Legend
 
Posts: 5335
Joined: Wed 21 Sep 2011 2:44pm
Location: Slotting another one from 94.5m out. Opposition flood? Bring it on...! Keep the faith Saintas!

Re: Times change, Saints don't.

Postby minneapolis » Thu 07 Dec 2017 12:30pm

That was dead brill (London 1962).
I am committed to flexibility.
minneapolis
Club Player
 
Posts: 484
Joined: Thu 22 Apr 2004 5:35am
Location: Was:Peering thru the pollution in Peking. Now:Ice Fishing on the Mississippi again.

Re: Times change, Saints don't.

Postby sunsaint » Thu 07 Dec 2017 4:19pm

Thanks Dave - I just lost a "bit" of time reading and watching videos
Never realised your namesake was such a BIG figure in Stkilda history

It seems the saints have never been able to write their OWN history rather others have dictated our fate...
Seeya
Sunsaint
*************
sunsaint
SS Life Member
 
Posts: 3494
Joined: Mon 07 Aug 2006 9:50pm
Location: Queensland - Beautiful one day ... you know the rest

Re: Times change, Saints don't.

Postby Enrico_Misso » Thu 07 Dec 2017 9:44pm

sunsaint wrote:Thanks Dave - I just lost a "bit" of time reading and watching videos
Never realised your namesake was such a BIG figure in Stkilda history

It seems the saints have never been able to write their OWN history rather others have dictated our fate...

Big?
Dave was HUGE!
Dave McN was formally recognised in those days as the "Player of the colony" or in other words would have been a Brownlow medallist and probably a multiple one if it had existed then.
Perhaps one day the AFL will give him a retrospective one.
"Understand that you are all custodians of the St Kilda Football Club...you are responsible for making the difficult decisions to make this Club great. Those decisions will not always be popular, for popular decisions are easily made - but those that will truly make us great are those that challenge us most." - Allan Jeans as told to Chris Pelchen 2012.
User avatar
Enrico_Misso
Saintsational Legend
 
Posts: 9557
Joined: Tue 13 Jun 2006 12:11am
Location: Moorabbin Chapter of The Royal Society of Hagiographers

Re: Times change, Saints don't.

Postby Dave McNamara » Fri 08 Dec 2017 10:30pm

Enrico_Misso wrote:
sunsaint wrote:Thanks Dave - I just lost a "bit" of time reading and watching videos
Never realised your namesake was such a BIG figure in Stkilda history

It seems the saints have never been able to write their OWN history rather others have dictated our fate...

Big?
Dave was HUGE!
Dave McN was formally recognised in those days as the "Player of the colony" or in other words would have been a Brownlow medallist and probably a multiple one if it had existed then.
Perhaps one day the AFL will give him a retrospective one.

:mrgreen:


Actually, it was two 'Champion of the Colony' medals - so the equivalent of Harves'.
(Seems it took the VFL administrators back in the day quite some time to come to terms with Federation and re-name their medal. :roll: )

Fell out with the Saint's BOM, and so played in the VFA, which back then was of pretty much an equivalent standard to the VFL. Then had to stand out of footy for year to get back to the Saints, as even back then, Effndrug's VFA evil brother was... well, effn' evil. :evil:

That no doubt cost us the 1913 flag. That, and drinking the celebratory champers before the game. (I believe someone started a thread... something about times changing, but not our Saintas. :lol: )

Dave McNamara: The only player in our Team of the Century who played before the war... that's WW1. I reckon that says it all.




PS: When SS changed the rules so that one had to join up to read, and I was looking for a nic, I was amazed to find Dave McNamara hadn't been taken.
Or more likely... maybe people such as yourself Enrico, and Con... are way more modest than I...? :lol: :oops:
It's Dave, man. Will you open up? I got the stuff with me! -------Who?
Dave, man. Open up ------------------------------------------ -----Dave???
Yeah, Dave. ---------------------------------------------------------Dave's not here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOiG1hArSps&feature=player_detailpage

Matt Finnis CEO wrote:"St Kilda is an iconic part of Melbourne which has an identifiable attitude and spirit that is really aligned with where we want to take the club. It is grounded but it is aspirational, it is eclectic, everyone belongs, and we say how do we capture that as an identity? It would be a good move on so many levels for the club."
User avatar
Dave McNamara
Saintsational Legend
 
Posts: 5335
Joined: Wed 21 Sep 2011 2:44pm
Location: Slotting another one from 94.5m out. Opposition flood? Bring it on...! Keep the faith Saintas!


Return to Saintsational Fan Forum (open to all ages)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 22 guests