Paddy smashes his PB in 3km time trial

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Re: Paddy smashes his PB in 3km time trial

Postby Jacks Back » Thu 09 Nov 2017 9:50pm

samoht wrote:Something that you can wear around your neck that would act as a "shock absorber" (in the form of a specially designed neck-collar, say) would in all likelihood work much better than a helmet to prevent concussions.
Helmets actually increase the inertia - it's not only your head that's being knocked around - the helmet means you have extra mass (and angular momentum?) that probably makes the concussion more severe. Your head (and brain - the organ that's being concussed) gets rocked about more violently with a helmet. It's all physics.

You want something that would prevent the head from loosely flailing around and jerking about, that would hold the head somewhat while absorbing a fair bit of the shock of the impact, by spreading some of the energy of the impact down to your shoulders - where the base of the collar would sit - i.e., with this special collar you're allowing the head to move around, but not as violently - by lending support to the neck muscles.

I formally claim the idea for it (the saintsational shock-absorbing neck collar) and the international patent, of course. Any investors? .. Why not the St Kilda football club? -
we'll start work on the prototype, forthwith, and I think I know a perfect candidate to test it out on. :wink:

Edit: I just saw st cave's post above re: a collar that's being developed - but interestingly the cited article was talking about extra volume of blood being squeezed to the brain, thereby acting to reduce the amount of space that the brain has to move about inside the skull - I was thinking of a more substantial collar that would lend support to the neck muscles (to hold the head and spread the impact of the shock). I was looking at it from another angle. I didn't realise that the extra volume of blood could also help here - maybe combining the two concepts, with a larger collar, as I've suggested, might do the trick?

One like this?
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Or this?
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Re: Paddy smashes his PB in 3km time trial

Postby Darth Vader » Thu 09 Nov 2017 11:13pm

WellardSaint wrote:
Darth Vader wrote:
samoht wrote:Helmets - even the best ones - don't prevent concussions. Helmets don't magically negate the G-forces/the head-jerking that lead to concussions.
Also, how do helmets help if you get hit across the jaw/cheek (other than protect the facial bones)? - you can get concussed this way, too.

There are people that are prone to concussions, that have "glass jaws" - perhaps, players need their wits about them (be spacially aware/not have tunnel vision) and/or learn how to "roll with the punches"/take evasive actions.

Ask Nathan Burke if he reckons the helmet helped him.


Geelong's Harry Taylor Paddy-whacked him on the NOSE in a silly spoiling attempt.
Off for rest of game.
Remind us how good a helmet woulda been

Don’t see relevance.
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Re: Paddy smashes his PB in 3km time trial

Postby Drake Huggins » Thu 09 Nov 2017 11:20pm

Proph3t of egan wrote:he's looking pretty intimidating now. Has lost some of his puppy fat and has some viable facial hair now


He hasn't been taking "supplements", has he?
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Re: Paddy smashes his PB in 3km time trial

Postby bigcarl » Thu 09 Nov 2017 11:25pm

saintbrat wrote:http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/st-kilda/paddy-mccartin-says-concussion-bad-luck-wont-reduce-his-appetite-for-the-contest/news-story/5ec82a046bdf9775172fa9bdd70df1e7

artcile on the video interview released earlier today


( shame they had to put Godchild- can't do anything wrong- want it my way Ablett photo with the article)


Thanks. Turns out he is wearing a helmet in one of those pictures. Maybe the penny has dropped
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Re: Paddy smashes his PB in 3km time trial

Postby Sainternist » Thu 09 Nov 2017 11:53pm

Excellent news. I have a good feeling Paddy might finally show what he's really made of in 2018.
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Re: Paddy smashes his PB in 3km time trial

Postby WellardSaint » Fri 10 Nov 2017 3:55am

Darth Vader wrote:
WellardSaint wrote:
Darth Vader wrote:
samoht wrote:Helmets - even the best ones - don't prevent concussions. Helmets don't magically negate the G-forces/the head-jerking that lead to concussions.
Also, how do helmets help if you get hit across the jaw/cheek (other than protect the facial bones)? - you can get concussed this way, too.

There are people that are prone to concussions, that have "glass jaws" - perhaps, players need their wits about them (be spacially aware/not have tunnel vision) and/or learn how to "roll with the punches"/take evasive actions.

Ask Nathan Burke if he reckons the helmet helped him.


Geelong's Harry Taylor Paddy-whacked him on the NOSE in a silly spoiling attempt.
Off for rest of game.
Remind us how good a helmet woulda been

Don’t see relevance.


You tryin to be funny?

Nose+fist= concussion.
A motorbike helmet would be perfect, but can't see the AFL allowing a Shoei to be worn.
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Re: Paddy smashes his PB in 3km time trial

Postby Drake Huggins » Fri 10 Nov 2017 4:58am

When I saw Paddy riding his bike downhill on that gravel track, all I could picture in my mind was his front wheel coming off and him being catapulted, head first onto the stones below. Concussion. Season over.
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Re: Paddy smashes his PB in 3km time trial

Postby saintspremiers » Fri 10 Nov 2017 6:06am

Sainternist wrote:Excellent news. I have a good feeling Paddy might finally show what he's really made of in 2018.


Yes let’s all hope.

I’d be delighted if he’s as good as Jack Watts.
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Re: Paddy smashes his PB in 3km time trial

Postby samoht » Fri 10 Nov 2017 7:13am

Jacks Back wrote:Or this?
Image


Thanks for the images. :)
Yes, something like that. You'd need a bit of starch in those ruffles, mind you.
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Re: Paddy smashes his PB in 3km time trial

Postby asiu » Fri 10 Nov 2017 9:07am

actually ,

the starched 3press collars of the PrivateschoolboySet
would be a great starting point for your idea samoht

press studd the 'shock collar' onto the jumper
its held in place ... doin its job with as few restrictions to normal movements
as poss
Image
.name the ways , thought manipulates the State of Presence away.
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Re: Paddy smashes his PB in 3km time trial

Postby Darth Vader » Fri 10 Nov 2017 10:40am

WellardSaint wrote:
Darth Vader wrote:
WellardSaint wrote:
Darth Vader wrote:
samoht wrote:Helmets - even the best ones - don't prevent concussions. Helmets don't magically negate the G-forces/the head-jerking that lead to concussions.
Also, how do helmets help if you get hit across the jaw/cheek (other than protect the facial bones)? - you can get concussed this way, too.

There are people that are prone to concussions, that have "glass jaws" - perhaps, players need their wits about them (be spacially aware/not have tunnel vision) and/or learn how to "roll with the punches"/take evasive actions.

Ask Nathan Burke if he reckons the helmet helped him.


Geelong's Harry Taylor Paddy-whacked him on the NOSE in a silly spoiling attempt.
Off for rest of game.
Remind us how good a helmet woulda been

Don’t see relevance.


You tryin to be funny?

Nose+fist= concussion.
A motorbike helmet would be perfect, but can't see the AFL allowing a Shoei to be worn.
As Darth would say : " I find your lack of intelligence disturbing.."

Yeah maybe tryin a little bit. Okay, for head hits other than whacks to the nose, ask Nathan Burke if a helmet helped him (hint: the answer is a big fat yes).
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Re: Paddy smashes his PB in 3km time trial

Postby samoht » Fri 10 Nov 2017 11:03am

It's all about acceleration/deceleration forces, i.e., how violently the brain is being tossed about.
I think a specially designed neck collar - that's supportive of the neck - will help reduce the chances of concussion. It just makes sense that it would.

If you support an otherwise loose neck, logically, the head will move a smaller distance than it would otherwise (post impact). You're thereby reducing the g-forces the brain is subject to.
Even people with strong necks, unless they sense an imminent collision and have the chance to brace themselves and stiffen their powerful neck muscles before impact, their neck will be loose (that's the default condition of all necks).

That neck collar that st cave pointed out - which doesn't offer support or stiffen the neck, works another way- I'd be investigating that if I were Paddy or the St Kilda FC.
What I've suggested (my theoretical neck brace/collar), sounds plausible in theory. If it is achievable in practise and if combined with this neck collar, it should further reduce the chance of a concussion.
You're never going to eliminate all concussions - but if you can reduce 50% of them, that would be something.
I'm surprised the AFL isn't proactively working on it.
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Re: Paddy smashes his PB in 3km time trial

Postby desertsaint » Fri 10 Nov 2017 12:00pm

just inject some of that Brazilian cocktail into his neck - simples!
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Re: Paddy smashes his PB in 3km time trial

Postby bigcarl » Fri 10 Nov 2017 12:45pm

I think we should note carefully what the sports scientists say about helmets and then go in a completely different direction.

Get him to wear a helmet for the same reasons cyclists and sparring boxers are required to wear one ... to protect the noggin.
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Re: Paddy smashes his PB in 3km time trial

Postby sunsaint » Fri 10 Nov 2017 4:03pm

Seeya
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Re: Paddy smashes his PB in 3km time trial

Postby parkeysainter » Fri 10 Nov 2017 4:07pm

It will be a massive bonus if Paddy, Goddard and Freeman get truly fit and played regular footy this season.

Look out if they do!
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Re: Paddy smashes his PB in 3km time trial

Postby sunsaint » Fri 10 Nov 2017 4:45pm

ok this time
https://www.triplem.com.au/sport/afl/news/ed-phillips-wins-st-kilda-saints-3km-time-trial?station=melbourne

    Ed Phillips
    Dan McKenzie
    Jack Sinclair
    Blake Acres
    Jack Steele



Untried youngster Ed Phillips has won St Kilda’s 3km time trial for first-to-fourth-year players around the Linen House Centre in Seaford on Wednesday.

Phillips, who was taken at pick No.56 in last year’s draft, was too good for his teammates with Dan McKenzie finishing second and Jack Sinclair third.

Blake Acres and Jack Steele rounded out the top five.

St Kilda high performance manager Matt Hornsby was pleased with the first set of times recorded for the pre-season.

“It was a positive start to the pre-season given the targets we set for the guys were achieved, so it provides a really good foundation from day one to work from,” Hornsby said.

“I think the group ran really strongly because they were helped by the fact there was a really good group up the front – there are some pretty elite runners in Ed Phillips, Jack Sinclair, Dan McKenzie, Blake Acres and Jack Steele who really set the pace.

“Some guys went above and beyond those targets like Ed Phillips at the front, as well as Paddy McCartin and Jack Billings.”
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Re: Paddy smashes his PB in 3km time trial

Postby repta » Fri 10 Nov 2017 10:42pm

Great to hear he is getting fitter.. let's hope it continues and his body hold up.

In relation to helmuts. Simplest test in the world. .... bang your head against a brick wall. It is optional if you wear a helmut.

Yes won't stop all instances. But with the number of times his head gets banged it might help with a few or lessen the severity of the injury.
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Re: Paddy smashes his PB in 3km time trial

Postby SuperDuper » Fri 10 Nov 2017 11:02pm

sunsaint wrote:Untried youngster Ed Phillips has won St Kilda’s 3km time trial for first-to-fourth-year players around the Linen House Centre in Seaford on Wednesday.

Phillips, who was taken at pick No.56 in last year’s draft, was too good for his teammates with Dan McKenzie finishing second and Jack Sinclair third.

Blake Acres and Jack Steele rounded out the top five.

St Kilda high performance manager Matt Hornsby was pleased with the first set of times recorded for the pre-season.

“It was a positive start to the pre-season given the targets we set for the guys were achieved, so it provides a really good foundation from day one to work from,” Hornsby said.

“I think the group ran really strongly because they were helped by the fact there was a really good group up the front – there are some pretty elite runners in Ed Phillips, Jack Sinclair, Dan McKenzie, Blake Acres and Jack Steele who really set the pace.

“Some guys went above and beyond those targets like Ed Phillips at the front, as well as Paddy McCartin and Jack Billings.”


I recon Billing's tank is also crucial news there, just as much as McCartin.

The guy struggled a bit his first couple years with his tank having missed a lot of footy and had little pre-seasons before last year... but from all reports improved his tank a lot last pre-season and it showed on the field, and he looks set to take it up another notch this year

All I can say is.. look out!
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Re: Paddy smashes his PB in 3km time trial

Postby Proph3t of egan » Sat 11 Nov 2017 7:21am

SuperDuper wrote:
sunsaint wrote:Untried youngster Ed Phillips has won St Kilda’s 3km time trial for first-to-fourth-year players around the Linen House Centre in Seaford on Wednesday.

Phillips, who was taken at pick No.56 in last year’s draft, was too good for his teammates with Dan McKenzie finishing second and Jack Sinclair third.

Blake Acres and Jack Steele rounded out the top five.

St Kilda high performance manager Matt Hornsby was pleased with the first set of times recorded for the pre-season.

“It was a positive start to the pre-season given the targets we set for the guys were achieved, so it provides a really good foundation from day one to work from,” Hornsby said.

“I think the group ran really strongly because they were helped by the fact there was a really good group up the front – there are some pretty elite runners in Ed Phillips, Jack Sinclair, Dan McKenzie, Blake Acres and Jack Steele who really set the pace.

“Some guys went above and beyond those targets like Ed Phillips at the front, as well as Paddy McCartin and Jack Billings.”


I recon Billing's tank is also crucial news there, just as much as McCartin.

The guy struggled a bit his first couple years with his tank having missed a lot of footy and had little pre-seasons before last year... but from all reports improved his tank a lot last pre-season and it showed on the field, and he looks set to take it up another notch this year

All I can say is.. look out!

If he's tank has improved, maybe he won't be so tired when he gets a shot on goal, as that was one of the reasons for his inaccuracy this year
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Re: Paddy smashes his PB in 3km time trial

Postby Drake Huggins » Sat 11 Nov 2017 10:19am

Darth Vader wrote:
samoht wrote:Helmets - even the best ones - don't prevent concussions. Helmets don't magically negate the G-forces/the head-jerking that lead to concussions.
Also, how do helmets help if you get hit across the jaw/cheek (other than protect the facial bones)? - you can get concussed this way, too.

There are people that are prone to concussions, that have "glass jaws" - perhaps, players need their wits about them (be spacially aware/not have tunnel vision) and/or learn how to "roll with the punches"/take evasive actions.

Ask Nathan Burke if he reckons the helmet helped him.


Sorry Darth Vader, but your opinions about helmets should be considered with great caution. You are clearly biased in their favour, for obvious reasons. I know yours has served you well, but it may not be transferable to the AFL. Then again, the sight of a 210 cm man, cloaked in a dark cape and wearing a scary helmet moving towards you on the ground would have a certain intimidation factor. (BTW, I agree about helmets. Not the complete answer, but part of it)
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Re: Paddy smashes his PB in 3km time trial

Postby Con Gorozidis » Thu 23 Nov 2017 9:55pm

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Re: Paddy smashes his PB in 3km time trial

Postby skeptic » Thu 23 Nov 2017 10:42pm

repta wrote:Great to hear he is getting fitter.. let's hope it continues and his body hold up.

In relation to helmuts. Simplest test in the world. .... bang your head against a brick wall. It is optional if you wear a helmut.

Yes won't stop all instances. But with the number of times his head gets banged it might help with a few or lessen the severity of the injury.


You understand that there’s a difference btw a concussion and a fractured skull right?

This type of comment never ceases to frustrate me...
A concussion is caused by the brain essentially banging into the skull from the INSIDE. The helmet goes on the OUTSIDE of the head and yes whilst it protects the skull, it can’t do anything to stop the head slamming motion that causes the brain to bash into something in the first place.

If Paddy goes up for a speccy, then falls awkwardly and either lands on his head, or in his side and slams his head into the ground, it’ll be the movement of his head hitting the ground unexpectedly and forcibly that will lead to his brain slamming into his skull... and a helmet does nothing to prevent that or reduce the potential for concussions.
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Re: Paddy smashes his PB in 3km time trial

Postby Jacks Back » Thu 23 Nov 2017 10:54pm

I think Danny Frawley said somewhere that Paddy needs to learn not to put his head down where his arse should be (or something like that).
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Re: Paddy smashes his PB in 3km time trial

Postby Con Gorozidis » Fri 24 Nov 2017 10:55am

Jacks Back wrote:I think Danny Frawley said somewhere that Paddy needs to learn not to put his head down where his arse should be (or something like that).


Yep. Agree with that.
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