I don't get the doom and gloom (long post)

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skeptic
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I don't get the doom and gloom (long post)

Post: # 1705188Post skeptic »

Did we improve in 2017?

We may not have won more games but tougher draw than last year and we just missed the finals after looking like certainties with a month to go.

People say we didn’t turn up to play in both games against Melbourne and against Essendon… but in all of those performances, we were lacklustre for the majority but the game was still there to be won part way through the third quarter.
Throw in the fact that we kicked our way out of commanding positions vs WCE and Geelong early in the season and the brain fade vs Port… that’s 6 games that weren’t that far off winning.

But more than that, here’ what I liked…
Billings went from barely looking best 22 to clearly a superstar if he could be more consistent and kick straighter.

Dunstan and Sinclair cemented themselves in the top 22

Gresh clearly a player

Carlisle rewarded the faith we showed in him… you know one of those good players we can’t attract

Acres, Steven, Steele, Longer and White went from could potentially be good players to clearly good enough players that just need to take the next step.

Membrey and Bruce were IMO much maligned forwards that performed admirably in a team that struggled with ball movement for much of the season.

I liked the look of Battle and Marsh all season and was encouraged by Freeman putting a whole season together without being interrupted by soft-tissue issues.


The downside…
Hickey didn’t fire a shot all season. Clearly the best ruck at the start of the season, he looked out of sorts all year.

Mav Weller went from good, reliable tough nut to… ‘I can’t believe this guy got chosen again

Dmac and Lonie couldn’t translate excellent VFL form to excellent AFL form

Paddy had another year plagued by concussion concerns


The List…
Yes we have too many ruckman with 5 and what’s concerning is not one is the right package
Longer is a beast in the middle but doesn’t influence the play around the ground enough
Hickey is good around the ground but gets smashed in the middle

Neither is perfect but both are good enough to be on the list as number 1 & 2… with only one of those types of players belonging in the top 22
That makes Jason Holmes role as back up superfluous as one of the above are the back up.

It leaves us one spot for a developing ruck… that belongs to the promising Marsh who appears groomed to be a key position relief ruck, and probably puts Pierce on his last chance to show he can do something or be cut.

Defenders… well with the addition of Austin to Carlisle and Brown, and Goddard looking ready to hit the ground running this season, we’re looking less vulnerable in the key posts. Geary remains a lock for the lock down role whilst Roberton is our versatile medium.

That leaves Webster, Savage and Newnes (+ White) vying for that running back position and all have skills but need to be a bit better.
One could also see a Dmac or Rice fit down there too but again they need to lift.

Forward line…
Well despite criticism, Bruce and Membrey are locks… Paddy is the big question mark as a key forward with Marsh and Battle developing.
We have Billings, Gresh, Acres all established as running, sometimes crumbing guys that are potential match winners if they could all kick a touch straighter or be more consistent.

Rounding out the pocket positions are the cluster of ??? in Wright, Minch, Lonie and Weller… of that lot, to me Dasher looks to be the one worth persevering with.
Clean out next season.

Mids…
Steven and Ross are our only elite’ish mids. Both not quite up there with the very best but are still very good.
Then you have Steele, Dunstan, Stevens, Armitage and Acres… all decent players in their own right but too vanilla in that they’re all a similar type

Sinclair gives us a touch of the outside and we’re all hoping that Freeman can come on and close the void just a touch.
Beyond that the only pace we have on the list to potentially come in is this Connellan kid I’m hearing a lot about.

Clearly the area we’re lacking in.

We missed out on trading a ready made solution in but no doubt pick 7&8 will target the pace/disposal that we need and we’ll load up again next year and try to recruit the ready made that we need.


Movement – Out are our retired stalwarts in Roo, Monty and Dempster… had to happen. Seems one or two more may follow.


The draft period… the majority are lamenting are inactivity but exactly what did we miss out on.
Dusty, Fyfe and Kelly didn’t move

Tomlinson and Haynes we were interested in but both were overpriced and not the big fish we needed

Lever only wanted Melbourne and went on HUGE coin, pbly above what he was worth and the reality is that he’s unproven outside a great defence

Charlie Cameron would have been nice but was only ever headed to Brisbane.

So again… who is that big fish we failed to lure

We said no to Rockcliff who is expensive and questionable
Motlop!!?? Way too inconsistent for the coin he demanded
Trengrove? He’s okay but hardly the masterstroke for us to spend coin on.

Weller only wanted QLD.
Scahache was meh and not what we wanted
Matera is a player type we already have much of
Ablett, Gibbs, Hodge = too old and expensive

Kennedy, Lang, Saad, Lobbe, Wilson, Gibson, Murray, Young, Balic, Ah’Chee, Wigg, Crozier, Smith, all hardly big fish and again, not what we wanted…

So that leaves…
Jack Watts who again is not what we needed and Stringer who is talented but troubled and cost 2 second round picks.

To be honest… looking at that list, people can lament all they want but there really wasn’t much on offer and I for one am glad that we held our nerve instead of paying overs for a crappy deal that doesn’t really benefit us.

No deal is better than a bad one.


OFF FIELD –
Moorabbin is moving full steam ahead
We’re getting a women’s team
Our membership numbers are at their highest
No off-field scandals
Sandy alliance going on for now at least
Salary cap is reported to be in good shape, we still have our war chest in play for next season

Not overly happy they’ve extended Richo’s position so soon but obviously they believe in the guy…
Lets hope he can take some steps towards improving the erratic psychology of the playing list on-field.
We’ve targeted a goal kicking coach so that’s a start

There’s been some admin turnover, coaches have shuffled, Bains is off…

All… to me things look pretty positive.

Don’t get the doom and gloom at all.


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Re: I don't get the doom and gloom (long post)

Post: # 1705192Post MickThomas »

That leaves Webster, Savage and Newnes (+ White) vying for that running back position and all have skills but need to be a bit better.
One could also see a Dmac or Rice fit down there too but again they need to lift.


Newnes is in the leadership group (well in 2017 anyway)
and although he was very good last year, in 2017 he was simply a GOP
who was an underachiever. Can't believe how vanilla he was.

Webster is very competitive and has a huge crack, however I don't see him as a natural leader who can win the ball
in defence and do something constructive.
The only player out of the above grouping is SAVAGE
who has been dropped a couple of times, and learnt, and came back much better.
The abiltiy to learn lessons and improve is incredibly important and Sav is the man for me.


2020 was an aberration, when we travelled twice to Adelaide and won both, beat Tigers early, beat our bogey Swans. 2021 we've returned to our old ways. Damn
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Re: I don't get the doom and gloom (long post)

Post: # 1705194Post parkeysainter »

skeptic wrote:Did we improve in 2017?

We may not have won more games but tougher draw than last year and we just missed the finals after looking like certainties with a month to go.

People say we didn’t turn up to play in both games against Melbourne and against Essendon… but in all of those performances, we were lacklustre for the majority but the game was still there to be won part way through the third quarter.
Throw in the fact that we kicked our way out of commanding positions vs WCE and Geelong early in the season and the brain fade vs Port… that’s 6 games that weren’t that far off winning.

But more than that, here’ what I liked…
Billings went from barely looking best 22 to clearly a superstar if he could be more consistent and kick straighter.

Dunstan and Sinclair cemented themselves in the top 22

Gresh clearly a player

Carlisle rewarded the faith we showed in him… you know one of those good players we can’t attract

Acres, Steven, Steele, Longer and White went from could potentially be good players to clearly good enough players that just need to take the next step.

Membrey and Bruce were IMO much maligned forwards that performed admirably in a team that struggled with ball movement for much of the season.

I liked the look of Battle and Marsh all season and was encouraged by Freeman putting a whole season together without being interrupted by soft-tissue issues.


The downside…
Hickey didn’t fire a shot all season. Clearly the best ruck at the start of the season, he looked out of sorts all year.

Mav Weller went from good, reliable tough nut to… ‘I can’t believe this guy got chosen again

Dmac and Lonie couldn’t translate excellent VFL form to excellent AFL form

Paddy had another year plagued by concussion concerns


The List…
Yes we have too many ruckman with 5 and what’s concerning is not one is the right package
Longer is a beast in the middle but doesn’t influence the play around the ground enough
Hickey is good around the ground but gets smashed in the middle

Neither is perfect but both are good enough to be on the list as number 1 & 2… with only one of those types of players belonging in the top 22
That makes Jason Holmes role as back up superfluous as one of the above are the back up.

It leaves us one spot for a developing ruck… that belongs to the promising Marsh who appears groomed to be a key position relief ruck, and probably puts Pierce on his last chance to show he can do something or be cut.

Defenders… well with the addition of Austin to Carlisle and Brown, and Goddard looking ready to hit the ground running this season, we’re looking less vulnerable in the key posts. Geary remains a lock for the lock down role whilst Roberton is our versatile medium.

That leaves Webster, Savage and Newnes (+ White) vying for that running back position and all have skills but need to be a bit better.
One could also see a Dmac or Rice fit down there too but again they need to lift.

Forward line…
Well despite criticism, Bruce and Membrey are locks… Paddy is the big question mark as a key forward with Marsh and Battle developing.
We have Billings, Gresh, Acres all established as running, sometimes crumbing guys that are potential match winners if they could all kick a touch straighter or be more consistent.

Rounding out the pocket positions are the cluster of ??? in Wright, Minch, Lonie and Weller… of that lot, to me Dasher looks to be the one worth persevering with.
Clean out next season.

Mids…
Steven and Ross are our only elite’ish mids. Both not quite up there with the very best but are still very good.
Then you have Steele, Dunstan, Stevens, Armitage and Acres… all decent players in their own right but too vanilla in that they’re all a similar type

Sinclair gives us a touch of the outside and we’re all hoping that Freeman can come on and close the void just a touch.
Beyond that the only pace we have on the list to potentially come in is this Connellan kid I’m hearing a lot about.

Clearly the area we’re lacking in.

We missed out on trading a ready made solution in but no doubt pick 7&8 will target the pace/disposal that we need and we’ll load up again next year and try to recruit the ready made that we need.


Movement – Out are our retired stalwarts in Roo, Monty and Dempster… had to happen. Seems one or two more may follow.


The draft period… the majority are lamenting are inactivity but exactly what did we miss out on.
Dusty, Fyfe and Kelly didn’t move

Tomlinson and Haynes we were interested in but both were overpriced and not the big fish we needed

Lever only wanted Melbourne and went on HUGE coin, pbly above what he was worth and the reality is that he’s unproven outside a great defence

Charlie Cameron would have been nice but was only ever headed to Brisbane.

So again… who is that big fish we failed to lure

We said no to Rockcliff who is expensive and questionable
Motlop!!?? Way too inconsistent for the coin he demanded
Trengrove? He’s okay but hardly the masterstroke for us to spend coin on.

Weller only wanted QLD.
Scahache was meh and not what we wanted
Matera is a player type we already have much of
Ablett, Gibbs, Hodge = too old and expensive

Kennedy, Lang, Saad, Lobbe, Wilson, Gibson, Murray, Young, Balic, Ah’Chee, Wigg, Crozier, Smith, all hardly big fish and again, not what we wanted…

So that leaves…
Jack Watts who again is not what we needed and Stringer who is talented but troubled and cost 2 second round picks.

To be honest… looking at that list, people can lament all they want but there really wasn’t much on offer and I for one am glad that we held our nerve instead of paying overs for a crappy deal that doesn’t really benefit us.

No deal is better than a bad one.


OFF FIELD –
Moorabbin is moving full steam ahead
We’re getting a women’s team
Our membership numbers are at their highest
No off-field scandals
Sandy alliance going on for now at least
Salary cap is reported to be in good shape, we still have our war chest in play for next season

Not overly happy they’ve extended Richo’s position so soon but obviously they believe in the guy…
Lets hope he can take some steps towards improving the erratic psychology of the playing list on-field.
We’ve targeted a goal kicking coach so that’s a start

There’s been some admin turnover, coaches have shuffled, Bains is off…

All… to me things look pretty positive.

Don’t get the doom and gloom at all.
I agree. The club is going just fine and there is alot to look forward to. There are numerous positives in many areas.

Have you been to a game of live footy lately?
It's because some Saints fans have NFI, much like this forum and the supporters at all the other 17 clubs. It is that simple.


Try to be a rainbow in someone's cloud

In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death, taxes and the St Kilda FC
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Re: I don't get the doom and gloom (long post)

Post: # 1705197Post saynta »

parkeysainter wrote:
skeptic wrote:Did we improve in 2017?

We may not have won more games but tougher draw than last year and we just missed the finals after looking like certainties with a month to go.

People say we didn’t turn up to play in both games against Melbourne and against Essendon… but in all of those performances, we were lacklustre for the majority but the game was still there to be won part way through the third quarter.
Throw in the fact that we kicked our way out of commanding positions vs WCE and Geelong early in the season and the brain fade vs Port… that’s 6 games that weren’t that far off winning.

But more than that, here’ what I liked…
Billings went from barely looking best 22 to clearly a superstar if he could be more consistent and kick straighter.

Dunstan and Sinclair cemented themselves in the top 22

Gresh clearly a player

Carlisle rewarded the faith we showed in him… you know one of those good players we can’t attract

Acres, Steven, Steele, Longer and White went from could potentially be good players to clearly good enough players that just need to take the next step.

Membrey and Bruce were IMO much maligned forwards that performed admirably in a team that struggled with ball movement for much of the season.

I liked the look of Battle and Marsh all season and was encouraged by Freeman putting a whole season together without being interrupted by soft-tissue issues.


The downside…
Hickey didn’t fire a shot all season. Clearly the best ruck at the start of the season, he looked out of sorts all year.

Mav Weller went from good, reliable tough nut to… ‘I can’t believe this guy got chosen again

Dmac and Lonie couldn’t translate excellent VFL form to excellent AFL form

Paddy had another year plagued by concussion concerns


The List…
Yes we have too many ruckman with 5 and what’s concerning is not one is the right package
Longer is a beast in the middle but doesn’t influence the play around the ground enough
Hickey is good around the ground but gets smashed in the middle

Neither is perfect but both are good enough to be on the list as number 1 & 2… with only one of those types of players belonging in the top 22
That makes Jason Holmes role as back up superfluous as one of the above are the back up.

It leaves us one spot for a developing ruck… that belongs to the promising Marsh who appears groomed to be a key position relief ruck, and probably puts Pierce on his last chance to show he can do something or be cut.

Defenders… well with the addition of Austin to Carlisle and Brown, and Goddard looking ready to hit the ground running this season, we’re looking less vulnerable in the key posts. Geary remains a lock for the lock down role whilst Roberton is our versatile medium.

That leaves Webster, Savage and Newnes (+ White) vying for that running back position and all have skills but need to be a bit better.
One could also see a Dmac or Rice fit down there too but again they need to lift.

Forward line…
Well despite criticism, Bruce and Membrey are locks… Paddy is the big question mark as a key forward with Marsh and Battle developing.
We have Billings, Gresh, Acres all established as running, sometimes crumbing guys that are potential match winners if they could all kick a touch straighter or be more consistent.

Rounding out the pocket positions are the cluster of ??? in Wright, Minch, Lonie and Weller… of that lot, to me Dasher looks to be the one worth persevering with.
Clean out next season.

Mids…
Steven and Ross are our only elite’ish mids. Both not quite up there with the very best but are still very good.
Then you have Steele, Dunstan, Stevens, Armitage and Acres… all decent players in their own right but too vanilla in that they’re all a similar type

Sinclair gives us a touch of the outside and we’re all hoping that Freeman can come on and close the void just a touch.
Beyond that the only pace we have on the list to potentially come in is this Connellan kid I’m hearing a lot about.

Clearly the area we’re lacking in.

We missed out on trading a ready made solution in but no doubt pick 7&8 will target the pace/disposal that we need and we’ll load up again next year and try to recruit the ready made that we need.


Movement – Out are our retired stalwarts in Roo, Monty and Dempster… had to happen. Seems one or two more may follow.


The draft period… the majority are lamenting are inactivity but exactly what did we miss out on.
Dusty, Fyfe and Kelly didn’t move

Tomlinson and Haynes we were interested in but both were overpriced and not the big fish we needed

Lever only wanted Melbourne and went on HUGE coin, pbly above what he was worth and the reality is that he’s unproven outside a great defence

Charlie Cameron would have been nice but was only ever headed to Brisbane.

So again… who is that big fish we failed to lure

We said no to Rockcliff who is expensive and questionable
Motlop!!?? Way too inconsistent for the coin he demanded
Trengrove? He’s okay but hardly the masterstroke for us to spend coin on.

Weller only wanted QLD.
Scahache was meh and not what we wanted
Matera is a player type we already have much of
Ablett, Gibbs, Hodge = too old and expensive

Kennedy, Lang, Saad, Lobbe, Wilson, Gibson, Murray, Young, Balic, Ah’Chee, Wigg, Crozier, Smith, all hardly big fish and again, not what we wanted…

So that leaves…
Jack Watts who again is not what we needed and Stringer who is talented but troubled and cost 2 second round picks.

To be honest… looking at that list, people can lament all they want but there really wasn’t much on offer and I for one am glad that we held our nerve instead of paying overs for a crappy deal that doesn’t really benefit us.

No deal is better than a bad one.


OFF FIELD –
Moorabbin is moving full steam ahead
We’re getting a women’s team
Our membership numbers are at their highest
No off-field scandals
Sandy alliance going on for now at least
Salary cap is reported to be in good shape, we still have our war chest in play for next season

Not overly happy they’ve extended Richo’s position so soon but obviously they believe in the guy…
Lets hope he can take some steps towards improving the erratic psychology of the playing list on-field.
We’ve targeted a goal kicking coach so that’s a start

There’s been some admin turnover, coaches have shuffled, Bains is off…

All… to me things look pretty positive.

Don’t get the doom and gloom at all.
I agree. The club is going just fine and there is alot to look forward to. There are numerous positives in many areas.

Have you been to a game of live footy lately?
It's because some Saints fans have NFI, much like this forum and the supporters at all the other 17 clubs. It is that simple.
Correct mate and just who the f*** is this Marsh guy??? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


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Re: I don't get the doom and gloom (long post)

Post: # 1705200Post skeptic »

Weird that you would read my post... given I'm on your ignore list and all as you often point out

Anyway continue being a positive, good guy and a loyal supporter

Apologies for making a mistake with the typing too. Obviously you've never made mistakes Stinger


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Re: I don't get the doom and gloom (long post)

Post: # 1705202Post skeptic »

skeptic wrote:Weird that you would read my post... given I'm on your ignore list and all as you often point out

Anyway continue being a positive, good guy and a loyal supporter

Apologies for making a mistake with the typing too. Obviously you've never made mistakes Stinger
Gosh I did it again


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Re: I don't get the doom and gloom (long post)

Post: # 1705203Post Drake Huggins »

Probably one of the cricketing Marshes. They can get picked for anything! :)
Excellent post, skeptic. Pretty much sums it up without resorting to hyperbole and emotion. The rebounding defensive positions and a couple of outside, pacy runners are all we need to transform this team. I like the look of White, Sav saved his career in the last month of the season, and Freeman and Connellan have the requisite speed. Other than that, I like the look of Battle. A bottom ager who looks to have a touch of class. Saw him a few times at Sandy during the year and he showed glimpses of exceptional skill. His 4 goal game against Geelong showed how much potential he has. Could be the steal of his draft at pick 39. Next year he'll be free of schooling commitments and will be able to devote himself fully to his football. The most exciting thing for me about the coming year is our return to Moorabbin. Our spiritual home, the most modern of facilities and closer to town, where the action is. I think it will be a factor in attracting talent next year.


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Re: I don't get the doom and gloom (long post)

Post: # 1705204Post skeptic »

MickThomas wrote:That leaves Webster, Savage and Newnes (+ White) vying for that running back position and all have skills but need to be a bit better.
One could also see a Dmac or Rice fit down there too but again they need to lift.


Newnes is in the leadership group (well in 2017 anyway)
and although he was very good last year, in 2017 he was simply a GOP
who was an underachiever. Can't believe how vanilla he was.

Webster is very competitive and has a huge crack, however I don't see him as a natural leader who can win the ball
in defence and do something constructive.
The only player out of the above grouping is SAVAGE
who has been dropped a couple of times, and learnt, and came back much better.
The abiltiy to learn lessons and improve is incredibly important and Sav is the man for me.

I don't know about Savage.

What I don't like about him is he makes too many bad decisions moving the ball forward... especially when he has time to think; not unlike.
And he can be a bit unaccountable.

To be honest, I reckon I prefer him as a midfielder coming off the bench.

He has the potential to play that role whereas I'm less sure Newnes and Webster can do that. At this point they both seem more limited in where they can play.

Thanks for at least backing up an opinion by Mick.

Unlike some at least you contribute to football discussion around here


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Re: I don't get the doom and gloom (long post)

Post: # 1705207Post skeptic »

Drake Huggins wrote:Probably one of the cricketing Marshes. They can get picked for anything! :)
Excellent post, skeptic. Pretty much sums it up without resorting to hyperbole and emotion. The rebounding defensive positions and a couple of outside, pacy runners are all we need to transform this team. I like the look of White, Sav saved his career in the last month of the season, and Freeman and Connellan have the requisite speed. Other than that, I like the look of Battle. A bottom ager who looks to have a touch of class. Saw him a few times at Sandy during the year and he showed glimpses of exceptional skill. His 4 goal game against Geelong showed how much potential he has. Could be the steal of his draft at pick 39. Next year he'll be free of schooling commitments and will be able to devote himself fully to his football. The most exciting thing for me about the coming year is our return to Moorabbin. Our spiritual home, the most modern of facilities and closer to town, where the action is. I think it will be a factor in attracting talent next year.
Careful Drake, praise to me may alienate the little puppy following me around :lol:

Gotta say I like Battle too... he looks like a players that can blow games wide open in 5-10min patches. If he adds some baulk and works on his endurance I reckon he exploit defenders with his strong marking after he wears them down.

Looking forward to seeing what he can do


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Re: I don't get the doom and gloom (long post)

Post: # 1705213Post parkeysainter »

skeptic wrote:
Drake Huggins wrote:Probably one of the cricketing Marshes. They can get picked for anything! :)
Excellent post, skeptic. Pretty much sums it up without resorting to hyperbole and emotion. The rebounding defensive positions and a couple of outside, pacy runners are all we need to transform this team. I like the look of White, Sav saved his career in the last month of the season, and Freeman and Connellan have the requisite speed. Other than that, I like the look of Battle. A bottom ager who looks to have a touch of class. Saw him a few times at Sandy during the year and he showed glimpses of exceptional skill. His 4 goal game against Geelong showed how much potential he has. Could be the steal of his draft at pick 39. Next year he'll be free of schooling commitments and will be able to devote himself fully to his football. The most exciting thing for me about the coming year is our return to Moorabbin. Our spiritual home, the most modern of facilities and closer to town, where the action is. I think it will be a factor in attracting talent next year.
Careful Drake, praise to me may alienate the little puppy following me around :lol:

Gotta say I like Battle too... he looks like a players that can blow games wide open in 5-10min patches. If he adds some baulk and works on his endurance I reckon he exploit defenders with his strong marking after he wears them down.

Looking forward to seeing what he can do
Battle will be a gun. He actually has fantastic running ability. That is one of his best attributes and he can kick for goal.


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Re: I don't get the doom and gloom (long post)

Post: # 1705214Post skeptic »

I'm sure he's not at his peek yet and that he can turn it into a real weapon in the future.


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Re: I don't get the doom and gloom (long post)

Post: # 1705230Post fugazi »

parkeysainter wrote:
skeptic wrote:
Drake Huggins wrote:Probably one of the cricketing Marshes. They can get picked for anything! :)
Excellent post, skeptic. Pretty much sums it up without resorting to hyperbole and emotion. The rebounding defensive positions and a couple of outside, pacy runners are all we need to transform this team. I like the look of White, Sav saved his career in the last month of the season, and Freeman and Connellan have the requisite speed. Other than that, I like the look of Battle. A bottom ager who looks to have a touch of class. Saw him a few times at Sandy during the year and he showed glimpses of exceptional skill. His 4 goal game against Geelong showed how much potential he has. Could be the steal of his draft at pick 39. Next year he'll be free of schooling commitments and will be able to devote himself fully to his football. The most exciting thing for me about the coming year is our return to Moorabbin. Our spiritual home, the most modern of facilities and closer to town, where the action is. I think it will be a factor in attracting talent next year.
Careful Drake, praise to me may alienate the little puppy following me around :lol:

Gotta say I like Battle too... he looks like a players that can blow games wide open in 5-10min patches. If he adds some baulk and works on his endurance I reckon he exploit defenders with his strong marking after he wears them down.

Looking forward to seeing what he can do
Battle will be a gun. He actually has fantastic running ability. That is one of his best attributes and he can kick for goal.
Yeah, I'm pleased we have Battle, will be a fast fit forward line when he joins Bruce and Membrey.

Can't wait to see White getting regular games. His dropping after 3 decent games, was mystifying.


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Re: I don't get the doom and gloom (long post)

Post: # 1705384Post loris »

skeptic wrote:Did we improve in 2017?

We may not have won more games but tougher draw than last year and we just missed the finals after looking like certainties with a month to go.

People say we didn’t turn up to play in both games against Melbourne and against Essendon… but in all of those performances, we were lacklustre for the majority but the game was still there to be won part way through the third quarter.
Throw in the fact that we kicked our way out of commanding positions vs WCE and Geelong early in the season and the brain fade vs Port… that’s 6 games that weren’t that far off winning.

But more than that, here’ what I liked…
Billings went from barely looking best 22 to clearly a superstar if he could be more consistent and kick straighter.

Dunstan and Sinclair cemented themselves in the top 22

Gresh clearly a player

Carlisle rewarded the faith we showed in him… you know one of those good players we can’t attract

Acres, Steven, Steele, Longer and White went from could potentially be good players to clearly good enough players that just need to take the next step.

Membrey and Bruce were IMO much maligned forwards that performed admirably in a team that struggled with ball movement for much of the season.

I liked the look of Battle and Marsh all season and was encouraged by Freeman putting a whole season together without being interrupted by soft-tissue issues.


The downside…
Hickey didn’t fire a shot all season. Clearly the best ruck at the start of the season, he looked out of sorts all year.

Mav Weller went from good, reliable tough nut to… ‘I can’t believe this guy got chosen again

Dmac and Lonie couldn’t translate excellent VFL form to excellent AFL form

Paddy had another year plagued by concussion concerns


The List…
Yes we have too many ruckman with 5 and what’s concerning is not one is the right package
Longer is a beast in the middle but doesn’t influence the play around the ground enough
Hickey is good around the ground but gets smashed in the middle

Neither is perfect but both are good enough to be on the list as number 1 & 2… with only one of those types of players belonging in the top 22
That makes Jason Holmes role as back up superfluous as one of the above are the back up.

It leaves us one spot for a developing ruck… that belongs to the promising Marsh who appears groomed to be a key position relief ruck, and probably puts Pierce on his last chance to show he can do something or be cut.

Defenders… well with the addition of Austin to Carlisle and Brown, and Goddard looking ready to hit the ground running this season, we’re looking less vulnerable in the key posts. Geary remains a lock for the lock down role whilst Roberton is our versatile medium.

That leaves Webster, Savage and Newnes (+ White) vying for that running back position and all have skills but need to be a bit better.
One could also see a Dmac or Rice fit down there too but again they need to lift.

Forward line…
Well despite criticism, Bruce and Membrey are locks… Paddy is the big question mark as a key forward with Marsh and Battle developing.
We have Billings, Gresh, Acres all established as running, sometimes crumbing guys that are potential match winners if they could all kick a touch straighter or be more consistent.

Rounding out the pocket positions are the cluster of ??? in Wright, Minch, Lonie and Weller… of that lot, to me Dasher looks to be the one worth persevering with.
Clean out next season.

Mids…
Steven and Ross are our only elite’ish mids. Both not quite up there with the very best but are still very good.
Then you have Steele, Dunstan, Stevens, Armitage and Acres… all decent players in their own right but too vanilla in that they’re all a similar type

Sinclair gives us a touch of the outside and we’re all hoping that Freeman can come on and close the void just a touch.
Beyond that the only pace we have on the list to potentially come in is this Connellan kid I’m hearing a lot about.

Clearly the area we’re lacking in.

We missed out on trading a ready made solution in but no doubt pick 7&8 will target the pace/disposal that we need and we’ll load up again next year and try to recruit the ready made that we need.


Movement – Out are our retired stalwarts in Roo, Monty and Dempster… had to happen. Seems one or two more may follow.


The draft period… the majority are lamenting are inactivity but exactly what did we miss out on.
Dusty, Fyfe and Kelly didn’t move

Tomlinson and Haynes we were interested in but both were overpriced and not the big fish we needed

Lever only wanted Melbourne and went on HUGE coin, pbly above what he was worth and the reality is that he’s unproven outside a great defence

Charlie Cameron would have been nice but was only ever headed to Brisbane.

So again… who is that big fish we failed to lure

We said no to Rockcliff who is expensive and questionable
Motlop!!?? Way too inconsistent for the coin he demanded
Trengrove? He’s okay but hardly the masterstroke for us to spend coin on.

Weller only wanted QLD.
Scahache was meh and not what we wanted
Matera is a player type we already have much of
Ablett, Gibbs, Hodge = too old and expensive

Kennedy, Lang, Saad, Lobbe, Wilson, Gibson, Murray, Young, Balic, Ah’Chee, Wigg, Crozier, Smith, all hardly big fish and again, not what we wanted…

So that leaves…
Jack Watts who again is not what we needed and Stringer who is talented but troubled and cost 2 second round picks.

To be honest… looking at that list, people can lament all they want but there really wasn’t much on offer and I for one am glad that we held our nerve instead of paying overs for a crappy deal that doesn’t really benefit us.

No deal is better than a bad one.


OFF FIELD –
Moorabbin is moving full steam ahead
We’re getting a women’s team
Our membership numbers are at their highest
No off-field scandals
Sandy alliance going on for now at least
Salary cap is reported to be in good shape, we still have our war chest in play for next season

Not overly happy they’ve extended Richo’s position so soon but obviously they believe in the guy…
Lets hope he can take some steps towards improving the erratic psychology of the playing list on-field.
We’ve targeted a goal kicking coach so that’s a start

There’s been some admin turnover, coaches have shuffled, Bains is off…

All… to me things look pretty positive.

Don’t get the doom and gloom at all.
Agree I don’t get the gloom and doom either “skeptic”.

That was a very good post. - my only gloomy comment :( - Why no mention of Gilbo?


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Re: I don't get the doom and gloom (long post)

Post: # 1705385Post loris »

skeptic wrote:Did we improve in 2017?

We may not have won more games but tougher draw than last year and we just missed the finals after looking like certainties with a month to go.

People say we didn’t turn up to play in both games against Melbourne and against Essendon… but in all of those performances, we were lacklustre for the majority but the game was still there to be won part way through the third quarter.
Throw in the fact that we kicked our way out of commanding positions vs WCE and Geelong early in the season and the brain fade vs Port… that’s 6 games that weren’t that far off winning.

But more than that, here’ what I liked…
Billings went from barely looking best 22 to clearly a superstar if he could be more consistent and kick straighter.

Dunstan and Sinclair cemented themselves in the top 22

Gresh clearly a player

Carlisle rewarded the faith we showed in him… you know one of those good players we can’t attract

Acres, Steven, Steele, Longer and White went from could potentially be good players to clearly good enough players that just need to take the next step.

Membrey and Bruce were IMO much maligned forwards that performed admirably in a team that struggled with ball movement for much of the season.

I liked the look of Battle and Marsh all season and was encouraged by Freeman putting a whole season together without being interrupted by soft-tissue issues.


The downside…
Hickey didn’t fire a shot all season. Clearly the best ruck at the start of the season, he looked out of sorts all year.

Mav Weller went from good, reliable tough nut to… ‘I can’t believe this guy got chosen again

Dmac and Lonie couldn’t translate excellent VFL form to excellent AFL form

Paddy had another year plagued by concussion concerns


The List…
Yes we have too many ruckman with 5 and what’s concerning is not one is the right package
Longer is a beast in the middle but doesn’t influence the play around the ground enough
Hickey is good around the ground but gets smashed in the middle

Neither is perfect but both are good enough to be on the list as number 1 & 2… with only one of those types of players belonging in the top 22
That makes Jason Holmes role as back up superfluous as one of the above are the back up.

It leaves us one spot for a developing ruck… that belongs to the promising Marsh who appears groomed to be a key position relief ruck, and probably puts Pierce on his last chance to show he can do something or be cut.

Defenders… well with the addition of Austin to Carlisle and Brown, and Goddard looking ready to hit the ground running this season, we’re looking less vulnerable in the key posts. Geary remains a lock for the lock down role whilst Roberton is our versatile medium.

That leaves Webster, Savage and Newnes (+ White) vying for that running back position and all have skills but need to be a bit better.
One could also see a Dmac or Rice fit down there too but again they need to lift.

Forward line…
Well despite criticism, Bruce and Membrey are locks… Paddy is the big question mark as a key forward with Marsh and Battle developing.
We have Billings, Gresh, Acres all established as running, sometimes crumbing guys that are potential match winners if they could all kick a touch straighter or be more consistent.

Rounding out the pocket positions are the cluster of ??? in Wright, Minch, Lonie and Weller… of that lot, to me Dasher looks to be the one worth persevering with.
Clean out next season.

Mids…
Steven and Ross are our only elite’ish mids. Both not quite up there with the very best but are still very good.
Then you have Steele, Dunstan, Stevens, Armitage and Acres… all decent players in their own right but too vanilla in that they’re all a similar type

Sinclair gives us a touch of the outside and we’re all hoping that Freeman can come on and close the void just a touch.
Beyond that the only pace we have on the list to potentially come in is this Connellan kid I’m hearing a lot about.

Clearly the area we’re lacking in.

We missed out on trading a ready made solution in but no doubt pick 7&8 will target the pace/disposal that we need and we’ll load up again next year and try to recruit the ready made that we need.


Movement – Out are our retired stalwarts in Roo, Monty and Dempster… had to happen. Seems one or two more may follow.


The draft period… the majority are lamenting are inactivity but exactly what did we miss out on.
Dusty, Fyfe and Kelly didn’t move

Tomlinson and Haynes we were interested in but both were overpriced and not the big fish we needed

Lever only wanted Melbourne and went on HUGE coin, pbly above what he was worth and the reality is that he’s unproven outside a great defence

Charlie Cameron would have been nice but was only ever headed to Brisbane.

So again… who is that big fish we failed to lure

We said no to Rockcliff who is expensive and questionable
Motlop!!?? Way too inconsistent for the coin he demanded
Trengrove? He’s okay but hardly the masterstroke for us to spend coin on.

Weller only wanted QLD.
Scahache was meh and not what we wanted
Matera is a player type we already have much of
Ablett, Gibbs, Hodge = too old and expensive

Kennedy, Lang, Saad, Lobbe, Wilson, Gibson, Murray, Young, Balic, Ah’Chee, Wigg, Crozier, Smith, all hardly big fish and again, not what we wanted…

So that leaves…
Jack Watts who again is not what we needed and Stringer who is talented but troubled and cost 2 second round picks.

To be honest… looking at that list, people can lament all they want but there really wasn’t much on offer and I for one am glad that we held our nerve instead of paying overs for a crappy deal that doesn’t really benefit us.

No deal is better than a bad one.


OFF FIELD –
Moorabbin is moving full steam ahead
We’re getting a women’s team
Our membership numbers are at their highest
No off-field scandals
Sandy alliance going on for now at least
Salary cap is reported to be in good shape, we still have our war chest in play for next season

Not overly happy they’ve extended Richo’s position so soon but obviously they believe in the guy…
Lets hope he can take some steps towards improving the erratic psychology of the playing list on-field.
We’ve targeted a goal kicking coach so that’s a start

There’s been some admin turnover, coaches have shuffled, Bains is off…

All… to me things look pretty positive.

Don’t get the doom and gloom at all.
Agree I don’t get the gloom and doom either “skeptic”.

That was a very good post. - my only gloomy comment :( - Why no mention of Gilbo?


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Re: I don't get the doom and gloom (long post)

Post: # 1705424Post Enrico_Misso »

skeptic wrote:Did we improve in 2017?

We may not have won more games but tougher draw than last year and we just missed the finals after looking like certainties with a month to go.

People say we didn’t turn up to play in both games against Melbourne and against Essendon… but in all of those performances, we were lacklustre for the majority but the game was still there to be won part way through the third quarter.
Throw in the fact that we kicked our way out of commanding positions vs WCE and Geelong early in the season and the brain fade vs Port… that’s 6 games that weren’t that far off winning.

But more than that, here’ what I liked…
Billings went from barely looking best 22 to clearly a superstar if he could be more consistent and kick straighter.

Dunstan and Sinclair cemented themselves in the top 22

Gresh clearly a player

Carlisle rewarded the faith we showed in him… you know one of those good players we can’t attract

Acres, Steven, Steele, Longer and White went from could potentially be good players to clearly good enough players that just need to take the next step.

Membrey and Bruce were IMO much maligned forwards that performed admirably in a team that struggled with ball movement for much of the season.

I liked the look of Battle and Marsh all season and was encouraged by Freeman putting a whole season together without being interrupted by soft-tissue issues.


The downside…
Hickey didn’t fire a shot all season. Clearly the best ruck at the start of the season, he looked out of sorts all year.

Mav Weller went from good, reliable tough nut to… ‘I can’t believe this guy got chosen again

Dmac and Lonie couldn’t translate excellent VFL form to excellent AFL form

Paddy had another year plagued by concussion concerns


The List…
Yes we have too many ruckman with 5 and what’s concerning is not one is the right package
Longer is a beast in the middle but doesn’t influence the play around the ground enough
Hickey is good around the ground but gets smashed in the middle

Neither is perfect but both are good enough to be on the list as number 1 & 2… with only one of those types of players belonging in the top 22
That makes Jason Holmes role as back up superfluous as one of the above are the back up.

It leaves us one spot for a developing ruck… that belongs to the promising Marsh who appears groomed to be a key position relief ruck, and probably puts Pierce on his last chance to show he can do something or be cut.

Defenders… well with the addition of Austin to Carlisle and Brown, and Goddard looking ready to hit the ground running this season, we’re looking less vulnerable in the key posts. Geary remains a lock for the lock down role whilst Roberton is our versatile medium.

That leaves Webster, Savage and Newnes (+ White) vying for that running back position and all have skills but need to be a bit better.
One could also see a Dmac or Rice fit down there too but again they need to lift.

Forward line…
Well despite criticism, Bruce and Membrey are locks… Paddy is the big question mark as a key forward with Marsh and Battle developing.
We have Billings, Gresh, Acres all established as running, sometimes crumbing guys that are potential match winners if they could all kick a touch straighter or be more consistent.

Rounding out the pocket positions are the cluster of ??? in Wright, Minch, Lonie and Weller… of that lot, to me Dasher looks to be the one worth persevering with.
Clean out next season.

Mids…
Steven and Ross are our only elite’ish mids. Both not quite up there with the very best but are still very good.
Then you have Steele, Dunstan, Stevens, Armitage and Acres… all decent players in their own right but too vanilla in that they’re all a similar type

Sinclair gives us a touch of the outside and we’re all hoping that Freeman can come on and close the void just a touch.
Beyond that the only pace we have on the list to potentially come in is this Connellan kid I’m hearing a lot about.

Clearly the area we’re lacking in.

We missed out on trading a ready made solution in but no doubt pick 7&8 will target the pace/disposal that we need and we’ll load up again next year and try to recruit the ready made that we need.


Movement – Out are our retired stalwarts in Roo, Monty and Dempster… had to happen. Seems one or two more may follow.


The draft period… the majority are lamenting are inactivity but exactly what did we miss out on.
Dusty, Fyfe and Kelly didn’t move

Tomlinson and Haynes we were interested in but both were overpriced and not the big fish we needed

Lever only wanted Melbourne and went on HUGE coin, pbly above what he was worth and the reality is that he’s unproven outside a great defence

Charlie Cameron would have been nice but was only ever headed to Brisbane.

So again… who is that big fish we failed to lure

We said no to Rockcliff who is expensive and questionable
Motlop!!?? Way too inconsistent for the coin he demanded
Trengrove? He’s okay but hardly the masterstroke for us to spend coin on.

Weller only wanted QLD.
Scahache was meh and not what we wanted
Matera is a player type we already have much of
Ablett, Gibbs, Hodge = too old and expensive

Kennedy, Lang, Saad, Lobbe, Wilson, Gibson, Murray, Young, Balic, Ah’Chee, Wigg, Crozier, Smith, all hardly big fish and again, not what we wanted…

So that leaves…
Jack Watts who again is not what we needed and Stringer who is talented but troubled and cost 2 second round picks.

To be honest… looking at that list, people can lament all they want but there really wasn’t much on offer and I for one am glad that we held our nerve instead of paying overs for a crappy deal that doesn’t really benefit us.

No deal is better than a bad one.


OFF FIELD –
Moorabbin is moving full steam ahead
We’re getting a women’s team
Our membership numbers are at their highest
No off-field scandals
Sandy alliance going on for now at least
Salary cap is reported to be in good shape, we still have our war chest in play for next season

Not overly happy they’ve extended Richo’s position so soon but obviously they believe in the guy…
Lets hope he can take some steps towards improving the erratic psychology of the playing list on-field.
We’ve targeted a goal kicking coach so that’s a start

There’s been some admin turnover, coaches have shuffled, Bains is off…

All… to me things look pretty positive.

Don’t get the doom and gloom at all.
Excellent post Skeptic and pretty much agreed with all of it.

One side point it that it is incredibly annoying when posters for no obvious reason insist on re-quoting long posts just to add a minor two sentence comment.


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Re: I don't get the doom and gloom (long post)

Post: # 1705429Post Devilhead »

Keeping in mind that on average we were equal 4th at shots on goal (doesnt include our numerous OoF shots) and we have the youngest age demographic of all teams

We have so much room for improvement its not funny or fair

Future looks so bright you gotta wear 8-)


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Re: I don't get the doom and gloom (long post)

Post: # 1705478Post outside66 »

Devilhead wrote:Keeping in mind that on average we were equal 4th at shots on goal (doesnt include our numerous OoF shots) and we have the youngest age demographic of all teams

We have so much room for improvement its not funny or fair

Future looks so bright you gotta wear 8-)
+ 1


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Re: I don't get the doom and gloom (long post)

Post: # 1705480Post saynta »

outside66 wrote:
Devilhead wrote:Keeping in mind that on average we were equal 4th at shots on goal (doesnt include our numerous OoF shots) and we have the youngest age demographic of all teams

We have so much room for improvement its not funny or fair

Future looks so bright you gotta wear 8-)
+ 1
I have got to agree. There is more upside than downside.

Four young kids coming in. Two of them at least, cream

Armo back and firing. We really missed his hardness and drive this year.

A fit McCartin, Goodard, Steven and Freeman.

Natural improvement from Long, White, Rice, Greesham, McKenzie and Steele

Plus improved goalkicking and fierce competition for spots should see us finals bound.


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Re: I don't get the doom and gloom (long post)

Post: # 1705483Post saint64 »

Can't wait to hear Long, White and Rice called in a game


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Re: I don't get the doom and gloom (long post)

Post: # 1705484Post saynta »

saint64 wrote:Can't wait to hear Long, White and Rice called in a game
:wink: Or Longer, White Rice for that matter.


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Re: I don't get the doom and gloom (long post)

Post: # 1705492Post starsign »

saynta wrote:
saint64 wrote:Can't wait to hear Long, White and Rice called in a game
:wink: Or Longer, White Rice for that matter.
we can actually have Long White Rice or even Longer Brown Rice!!


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Re: I don't get the doom and gloom (long post)

Post: # 1705495Post saynta »

starsign wrote:
saynta wrote:
saint64 wrote:Can't wait to hear Long, White and Rice called in a game
:wink: Or Longer, White Rice for that matter.
we can actually have Long White Rice or even Longer Brown Rice!!
:wink:

Which could be grown In Long Brown Acres, or Paddy Rice Acres.


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Re: I don't get the doom and gloom (long post)

Post: # 1705496Post starsign »

saynta wrote:
starsign wrote:
saynta wrote:
saint64 wrote:Can't wait to hear Long, White and Rice called in a game
:wink: Or Longer, White Rice for that matter.
we can actually have Long White Rice or even Longer Brown Rice!!
:wink:

Which could be grown In Long Brown Acres, or Paddy Rice Acres.
And bought for a Steele (sic)...Savagely


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Re: I don't get the doom and gloom (long post)

Post: # 1705503Post felix »

Can people stop saying vanilla now. It's got rather ...vanilla...


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Re: I don't get the doom and gloom (long post)

Post: # 1705554Post Jacks Back »

felix wrote:Can people stop saying vanilla now. It's got rather ...vanilla...
Unfortunately (as it's only a word), but is it now racist?


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