Pick 34 for 2018 2nd rounder

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Re: Pick 34 for 2018 2nd rounder

Postby saynta » Thu 19 Oct 2017 5:46pm

saintsRrising wrote:
saynta wrote:
saintsRrising wrote:
Joffa Burns wrote:
BackFromUSA wrote:Or did we need a 2017 2nd rounder to try to lock a deal in for a player this last hour of trade and it don't come off?


This sounds the most logical.



i think what is most logical is that this was all part of the Logan deal wth both Port and the Saint's agreeing that after the initial trade went though that we still owed Port some extra sweetener and that this going to be affected by what picks rach club ahd left. So it may be that our trade did not go through, or Ports...or that Ports trading dif affect things.

So IMO this trade was just all part of the Logan Trade and so our unders in this is part of the trade cost to acquire Logan.


""both Port and the Saint's agreeing that after the initial trade went though that we still owed Port some extra sweetener".

-
Rubbish


Why rubbish. We have done exactly this in previous years; ie The McEvoy trade.


No. Hawthorn agreed to give us their compo pick in the initial transaction, only at the time they didn't know where it was going to land.That fact was well known at the time.

Clubs don't go""Oh we think we got too good a deal there, so here you are have our second round pick for next year in the super draft and a box of chocolates as well."" :roll: :roll: :roll:

Baines wanted a pick in this years second round, and he got it. Simple to understand imho.
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Re: Pick 34 for 2018 2nd rounder

Postby ace » Thu 19 Oct 2017 5:54pm

At least we didn't get done over by Lyon
Gold Coast paid pick 2 worth 2517 points and got Lachie Weller and pick 41=412 points.
Values Weller at 2105 points midway between pick 3 & 4.
The guy did not even make it into Fremantle's top 10 best and fairest despite playing every game.
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Re: Pick 34 for 2018 2nd rounder

Postby older saint » Thu 19 Oct 2017 6:03pm

Unless we have any father son prospects next year and need the later points for bidding?
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Re: Pick 34 for 2018 2nd rounder

Postby Con Gorozidis » Thu 19 Oct 2017 6:12pm

Freo will be laughing at that.
So will Carlton.
Bummers also did well imo.
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Re: Pick 34 for 2018 2nd rounder

Postby shrodes » Thu 19 Oct 2017 6:54pm

saintsRrising wrote:
SuperDuper wrote: this year's picks No.59 and No.63.



Club will have known by today that we would not use these speaks and so hence could be included as a sweetener at no real effective cost to the Saints.


Except that doesn't explain the 2nd round swap, which almost certainly is a net loss unless we finish top 3-4 next year. Just a bizarre trade all around.
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Re: Pick 34 for 2018 2nd rounder

Postby Saintly Passion » Thu 19 Oct 2017 8:05pm

I think people are missing the point IMHO - it's actually trading our 2018 2nd rd for 34 (2017 2nd rd). We wouldn't have used piscks 59 & 63 so these were of no consequence

We went into 2016 and 2017 trade periods without 2nd rd picks and emerged from both with picks so you can see what the plan is
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Re: Pick 34 for 2018 2nd rounder

Postby saintsRrising » Thu 19 Oct 2017 8:49pm

saynta wrote:
Clubs don't go""Oh we think we got too good a deal there, so here you are have our second round pick for next year in the super draft and a box of chocolates as well."" :roll: :roll: :roll:

.


LOL. Now if you want rubbish you have just supplied it.


It is not a matter "too good a deal there," and I did not say that it was, but that to complete the deal that others things had to happen. I said " we still owed Port some extra sweetener ". OWED as in we still had to supply an agreed value. I did not say that gee we thought that we got too great a deal and so out of the goodness of our hearts, decided to give some back.

So once again, the deal is done, but it is agreed as part of that Port will be given more, but exactly how that will be given depends on what else happens trade wise on the day with other clubs.

This is why it was completed last minute, rather than at the one time.
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Re: Pick 34 for 2018 2nd rounder

Postby saintsRrising » Thu 19 Oct 2017 8:59pm

shrodes wrote:
saintsRrising wrote:
SuperDuper wrote: this year's picks No.59 and No.63.



Club will have known by today that we would not use these speaks and so hence could be included as a sweetener at no real effective cost to the Saints.


Except that doesn't explain the 2nd round swap, which almost certainly is a net loss unless we finish top 3-4 next year. Just a bizarre trade all around.


As I wrote earlier this was all part of the Logan Trade. Part of the earlier deal would of been that we owed port still some extra value, and this second trade was to deliver.about the type of thing that was required, but will have been conditional of what other deals went down, or did not go down first.

At the time of the first trade there would have been an in principal agreement on what was reasonable, but the exact mechanics to be agreed to as later.

Just think of the two trades as being one trade.
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Re: Pick 34 for 2018 2nd rounder

Postby Con Gorozidis » Thu 19 Oct 2017 9:01pm

Along with North, we are currently the most irrelevant club in the AFL.
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Re: Pick 34 for 2018 2nd rounder

Postby MC Gusto » Thu 19 Oct 2017 9:07pm

Are we a chance for Tom McCartin at 34?
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Re: Pick 34 for 2018 2nd rounder

Postby Junior » Thu 19 Oct 2017 9:16pm

Points value in picks traded are totally irrelevant if we were never going to use them.

Look at how many list spots we have available we were not going to use 59 and 63.

I am sure some of you just complain for the sake of it, might start a thread for you to post in about how crap this tears draftees are before we even select them or they even play a game.
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Re: Pick 34 for 2018 2nd rounder

Postby Junior » Thu 19 Oct 2017 9:18pm

MC Gusto wrote:Are we a chance for Tom McCartin at 34?



Don't reckon we need his type of player, would have thought that 34 would be early for him to be picked as well.
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Re: Pick 34 for 2018 2nd rounder

Postby saintsRrising » Thu 19 Oct 2017 9:24pm

Con Gorozidis wrote:Along with North, we are currently the most irrelevant club in the AFL.


I disagree with that.

But we are at present stuck in the middle and are struggling to find ways to rise.

There is a bit of irony hear in that the Blues started to ape what the Saints were doing and initially they arsed things up much to all of our joy. but the last two trade periods they have done very well.

We lost Goddard for an ordinary pick back via FA.

The Blues traded Gibbs to gain three times the value.

Sometimes I think the Saints are cursed:
ie

- BJ wanted to leave when FA first came in and we were not really set up to exploit it. So he went for unders
-When the Saints are cashed up to exploit getting good FA's al the clubs have wised up so we cannot get one (ie they keep them contracted forcing trades)

- We plan to have a war-chest and build it, only to have the rug pulled out from under us when we are ready to waive the $$$$ by EVERY club suddenly being cashed up by the 20% sudden increase in TPP in one year, and in the one year when we were ready to rock and role! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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Re: Pick 34 for 2018 2nd rounder

Postby Beno88 » Fri 20 Oct 2017 8:16am

saintsRrising wrote:
SuperDuper wrote: this year's picks No.59 and No.63.



Club will have known by today that we would not use these picks and so hence could be included as a sweetener at no real effective cost to the Saints.


Spot on.
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Re: Pick 34 for 2018 2nd rounder

Postby Toy Saint » Fri 20 Oct 2017 8:24am

MC Gusto wrote:Are we a chance for Tom McCartin at 34?


May I ask, Is he the brother of?

And what type of player?
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Re: Pick 34 for 2018 2nd rounder

Postby parkeysainter » Fri 20 Oct 2017 11:15am

Still reckon we got a good deal. We picked up Logan - a ready made player and key defender that has been in the system - and pick 34 in this draft.

We only really lost a 2nd round pick for 2018 for the above player and pick. That 2nd round 2018 pick will probably end up being around pick 25-30 for Port (not much less than the pick 34 we gained this year). Its pretty simple to see we did well in the end.

Who cares about those later 3rd and 4th round picks. They're meaningless.
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Re: Pick 34 for 2018 2nd rounder

Postby ace » Fri 20 Oct 2017 11:50am

saintsRrising wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote:Along with North, we are currently the most irrelevant club in the AFL.


I disagree with that.

But we are at present stuck in the middle and are struggling to find ways to rise.

There is a bit of irony hear in that the Blues started to ape what the Saints were doing and initially they arsed things up much to all of our joy. but the last two trade periods they have done very well.

We lost Goddard for an ordinary pick back via FA.

The Blues traded Gibbs to gain three times the value.

Sometimes I think the Saints are cursed:
ie

- BJ wanted to leave when FA first came in and we were not really set up to exploit it. So he went for unders
-When the Saints are cashed up to exploit getting good FA's al the clubs have wised up so we cannot get one (ie they keep them contracted forcing trades)

- We plan to have a war-chest and build it, only to have the rug pulled out from under us when we are ready to waive the $$$$ by EVERY club suddenly being cashed up by the 20% sudden increase in TPP in one year, and in the one year when we were ready to rock and role! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


The 20% increase in the salary cap definitely hurt our ability to attract free agents.
Teams whose caps were going to bust in 2018 suddenly had to offer some players pay rises.
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Re: Pick 34 for 2018 2nd rounder

Postby ace » Fri 20 Oct 2017 12:08pm

parkeysainter wrote:Still reckon we got a good deal. We picked up Logan - a ready made player and key defender that has been in the system - and pick 34 in this draft.

We only really lost a 2nd round pick for 2018 for the above player and pick. That 2nd round 2018 pick will probably end up being around pick 25-30 for Port (not much less than the pick 34 we gained this year). Its pretty simple to see we did well in the end.

Who cares about those later 3rd and 4th round picks. They're meaningless.


Pick 34 is from the team that finished 4th on the ladder.
If we finish 3rd or better in 2018 we will be ahead, 4th we break even.
Who are we kidding, we traded away a mid 2nd rounder in 2018 for a late 2nd rounder in 2017.
That is just plain stupid.
All first round draft picks are not equal.
No 1 is better than No 18.
All second round draft picks are not equal.
Pick 27 for coming 11th again in 2018 is better than 34 in 2017.


Yes we needed to get rid of picks 59 and 63 because we should not want to use them.
But that is no excuse to single out one rival and favour them.
Passing would have been better if we could not consolidate them.
I can't believe that 220 draft points could not be used to move pick 45 a little earlier in the draft.

If you want to win a premiership you have to be the biggest winner in trade weeks.
You need to be the biggest winner on draft day.
You need to do both consistently.
Average produces an average position on the ladder.
Below average produces below average positions on the ladder

Trade weeks verdict FAIL
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Re: Pick 34 for 2018 2nd rounder

Postby saynta » Fri 20 Oct 2017 12:26pm

Can't be a fail until we see what Amet and co do with pick 34.

They must have a plan.
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Re: Pick 34 for 2018 2nd rounder

Postby parkeysainter » Fri 20 Oct 2017 1:00pm

saynta wrote:Can't be a fail until we see what Amet and co do with pick 34.

They must have a plan.


Exactly. Glad we are taking 2 x top 10 picks, pick 34 and brought in Logan. Big win and so glad we didn't pick up any B grade flakes like Port did.

We are at a point where it is only worth bringing in A talent if able.
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Re: Pick 34 for 2018 2nd rounder

Postby avid » Fri 20 Oct 2017 2:47pm

saintsRrising wrote:
shrodes wrote:
saintsRrising wrote:
SuperDuper wrote: this year's picks No.59 and No.63.



Club will have known by today that we would not use these speaks and so hence could be included as a sweetener at no real effective cost to the Saints.


Except that doesn't explain the 2nd round swap, which almost certainly is a net loss unless we finish top 3-4 next year. Just a bizarre trade all around.


As I wrote earlier this was all part of the Logan Trade. Part of the earlier deal would of been that we owed port still some extra value, and this second trade was to deliver.about the type of thing that was required, but will have been conditional of what other deals went down, or did not go down first.

At the time of the first trade there would have been an in principal agreement on what was reasonable, but the exact mechanics to be agreed to as later.

Just think of the two trades as being one trade.



Makes the most sense to me.

As for pick 34,
Isn't it best that we have a second round pick THIS year, with a chance of getting one next year too -- rather than certainly having one next year and certainly NOT having one this year??
Last edited by avid on Sat 21 Oct 2017 12:18am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pick 34 for 2018 2nd rounder

Postby axcellence » Fri 20 Oct 2017 2:51pm

2018 trade period

Saints trade future 2019 2nd round pick and 4th round for another team's 2018 2nd round pick....

Howls of protest as 2019 is supposed to be a superdraft....
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Re: Pick 34 for 2018 2nd rounder

Postby Sainter_Dad » Fri 20 Oct 2017 2:52pm

avid wrote:As forpick 34,
Isn't it best that we have a second round pick THIS year, with a chance of getting one next year to -- rather than certainly having one next year and ceretainly NOT having one this year??


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Re: Pick 34 for 2018 2nd rounder

Postby Saintly Passion » Fri 20 Oct 2017 6:39pm

Sainter_Dad wrote:
avid wrote:As forpick 34,
Isn't it best that we have a second round pick THIS year, with a chance of getting one next year to -- rather than certainly having one next year and ceretainly NOT having one this year??


Avid warned for making sense and not enough references to potatoes


+1 we've managed to come back into Rd 2 the previous 2 years. Forgotten that ace?? Benefit of using pick now is 12 months of development in a player which is worth something too.
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Re: Pick 34 for 2018 2nd rounder

Postby saynta » Fri 20 Oct 2017 6:54pm

What the clubs says.

http://www.saints.com.au




It’s been nearly two decades since St Kilda last had two picks inside the first ten and the Saints are determined to make the most of their strong position in this year’s draft.

The last time St Kilda held such a strong position was in 2001 when the club drafted Luke Ball at pick No. 2 and Xavier Clarke at No. 5.

St Kilda List and Recruiting Manager Tony Elshaug said the club is pleased to exit the trade period with pick No. 7 and No. 8 still in their grasp, as well as acquiring pick No. 34 from Port Adelaide to complement a fourth pick inside the top 50 at No. 45.

“It’s been 16 years since we’ve had two top ten picks and to have four picks in the top 45 is a good result as well,” Elshaug told saints.com.au on Friday after the completion of the 2017 trade period.

“We’re pleased to be in that position and now we’ve got to get to work and make the most of those picks.”

St Kilda acquired Port Adelaide’s second-round pick in the dying minutes of the trade period, exchanging a fourth-round selection this year and next year to move up this year’s order.

Elshaug said the Saints were keen to move into the second-round this year after trading their second-round pick last October to land midfielder Jack Steele.

“Essentially up until that point we were seven, eight, 45 and 59, so to come into 34 and 45 is a much better position,” he said.

“If you’re picking at 34 you’re looking to get the 20th to 25th best player on your list.

“Obviously we want those players to complement the two you pick at the front and to complement the whole list.

“We think that’s the way to go, we’ll take the players now and work with them for 12 months and find a better quality player in that area.”
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