Lever

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Lever

Postby Sainter_Dad » Thu 12 Oct 2017 6:48pm

Is Lever that much better than Carlisle?

We have been lambasted for giving up pick 5 (and I know that we didn't but for the sake of arguments) for Jake Carlisle, but Melbourne are being lauded for giving up 2 x first rounders for Lever.

I don't get it. I am actually struggling to understand how anyone (aside from maybe 1 or 2 players) is worth 2 x First Rounders.
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Re: Lever

Postby Joffa Burns » Thu 12 Oct 2017 6:55pm

Agreed Pops.
He is younger but two first rounders with a bit of change is a huge price.

Still, if you want quality you have to pay.
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Re: Lever

Postby SuperDuper » Thu 12 Oct 2017 6:57pm

Good point... Lever is younger so worth more than Carlisle but 5 to 14 downgrade (ended 6 to 18 after academy) is quite a lot less than what the demons paid
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Re: Lever

Postby fugazi » Thu 12 Oct 2017 7:02pm

I reckon we are laughing. We paid under for Carlisle/ Gresham and Dees paid overs.
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Re: Lever

Postby Spinner » Thu 12 Oct 2017 7:14pm

Sainter_Dad wrote:Is Lever that much better than Carlisle?

We have been lambasted for giving up pick 5 (and I know that we didn't but for the sake of arguments) for Jake Carlisle, but Melbourne are being lauded for giving up 2 x first rounders for Lever.

I don't get it. I am actually struggling to understand how anyone (aside from maybe 1 or 2 players) is worth 2 x First Rounders.



Think the dees got a great deal. Lever is 21, and already a proven key position player who would undoubtedly go in the top 3 picks if in this year's draft. Two first rounders, one being 10, the other probably between 12-18 is a bargain. Especially given the dees couldn't nail about 5 or so first rounders in a row at one stage a few years ago.

We got a good deal w Carlisle but the Dees have a beauty.
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Re: Lever

Postby SaintPav » Thu 12 Oct 2017 7:27pm

Good player but Lever is no match winner.

They overpaid
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Re: Lever

Postby Drake Huggins » Thu 12 Oct 2017 8:41pm

SaintPav wrote:Good player but Lever is no match winner.

They overpaid


Agreed. Way too much.
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Re: Lever

Postby dragit » Thu 12 Oct 2017 9:01pm

The guy is a superstar at 21… the dees will not regret this trade for a second.
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Re: Lever

Postby Drake Huggins » Thu 12 Oct 2017 9:07pm

I don't think they'll regret it too much, but let's see how good he is in an ordinary side, an average defence, playing against the best forward the opposition has, week in, week out. I don't think he's elite, not yet anyway. Two first rounders? Pfft!
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Re: Lever

Postby saynta » Thu 12 Oct 2017 9:11pm

Where did he come in their best and fairest?

Good player. Yes.

Superstar? Not yet.
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Re: Lever

Postby felix » Thu 12 Oct 2017 9:16pm

saynta wrote:Where did he come in their best and fairest?

Good player. Yes.

Superstar? Not yet.


Yes but maybe a superstar..worth the punt.
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Re: Lever

Postby thejiggingsaint » Thu 12 Oct 2017 9:19pm

felix wrote:
saynta wrote:Where did he come in their best and fairest?

Good player. Yes.

Superstar? Not yet.


Yes but maybe a superstar..worth the punt.

For TWO first rounders? That's a punt and a half!
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Re: Lever

Postby Spinner » Thu 12 Oct 2017 9:35pm

saynta wrote:Where did he come in their best and fairest?

Good player. Yes.

Superstar? Not yet.




He's 21....

In November they use a bunch of top 10 picks, even pick number 1 on players who havnt even played a game of AFL. Not superstars, not even good AFL players yet, not even GOP yet. So great logic there...
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Re: Lever

Postby saynta » Thu 12 Oct 2017 9:53pm

Spinner wrote:
saynta wrote:Where did he come in their best and fairest?

Good player. Yes.

Superstar? Not yet.




He's 21....

In November they use a bunch of top 10 picks, even pick number 1 on players who havnt even played a game of AFL. Not superstars, not even good AFL players yet, not even GOP yet. So great logic there...


Nothing wrong with my logic.

I was repying to a poster who said he was already a superstar at 21.

So read the entire thread before making silly posts ffs.
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Re: Lever

Postby magnifisaint » Thu 12 Oct 2017 11:51pm

I reckon Lever is a gun but I'm not sure he'll be a match winner so on that 2 first rounders and a 4th rounder is overs by a fair margin.
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Re: Lever

Postby 1965 Saint » Fri 13 Oct 2017 12:11am

Drake Huggins wrote:I don't think they'll regret it too much, but let's see how good he is in an ordinary side, an average defence, playing against the best forward the opposition has, week in, week out. I don't think he's elite, not yet anyway. Two first rounders? Pfft!


He may also be toxic. The problem may not lie with Adelaide FC, it may sit with Lever. Looks like a tool to me.
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Re: Lever

Postby bigred » Fri 13 Oct 2017 7:44am

Massive.



Overs.


Could be a superstar but two first rounders is just way too much. They have a list that really you could consider to be developing into a contender. Looking for key bits of the puzzle.

Trading away your future first rounders like this is a huge risk.
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Re: Lever

Postby stkfc1 » Fri 13 Oct 2017 8:09am

Two Melbourne supporters I know arent happy at all. Glad he came to the club but both reckon club have paid too much. He'd want to end up a superstar otherwise Melbourne have just shot themselves in the foot with their long term development. Big risk. Calculated risk. But big!
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Re: Lever

Postby ace » Fri 13 Oct 2017 1:15pm

Oils ain't oils and two first rounders aren't first rounders

The AFL points value is based over many years
Pick no 1 is valued at 3000 points
Pick no 18 is valued at 985 points

Three first rounders 16, 17 & 18 are valued at 3077 points.
So what maters is where those first rounders are placed.

In this trade
Melbourne gave up 2017 pick 10 but received pick 35 in return 1395 - 522 = 873 points in 2017
Melbourne gave up 2018 first rounder and fourth rounder but got back Adelaide's third rounder
We have no way of knowing where those picks will fall but lets use 2017 ladder positions
Melbourne gave up 2018 pick No 10 and pick No 65 but got back pick No 53 = 1395 + 90 - 233 = 1252 points in 2018
A total over 2 years of 2125 points worth pick 3 to 4 alone.

So Melbourne has effectively only given away one first round pick, but a high pick in the 3 to 4 range.

What makes the deal good for both sides is Melbourne's hubris.
Melbourne think those Melbourne 2018 picks are worth less and the Adelaide pick worth more.
Melbourne probably believe they have given up 350 points less so only given up pick 6
Adelaide think Melbourne are dreaming.
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Re: Lever

Postby SinCitySainter » Fri 13 Oct 2017 1:28pm

The chance of getting two A graders for two picks in the 10 - 15 range is extremely slim. So chances are one is a C grader at best and maybe a complete bust. However, Lever is a known quantity. Certainly will be an A grader and potentially one of the best Key defenders in the game. He is better at 21 than Rance was.
So two Mid-range first rounders for Lever is a good and suitable deal.
This was a trade that was a win-win.
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Re: Lever

Postby ace » Fri 13 Oct 2017 1:29pm

stkfc1 wrote:Two Melbourne supporters I know arent happy at all. Glad he came to the club but both reckon club have paid too much. He'd want to end up a superstar otherwise Melbourne have just shot themselves in the foot with their long term development. Big risk. Calculated risk. But big!


Melbourne wasted 3000 points on Jack Watts but are wiling to sell him for 750 points a loss worth pick 3
We spent 3000 points on Paddy, he is yet to prove himself worth any points.
We can only hope he turns out better than Watts.
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Re: Lever

Postby saynta » Fri 13 Oct 2017 2:02pm

ace wrote:
stkfc1 wrote:Two Melbourne supporters I know arent happy at all. Glad he came to the club but both reckon club have paid too much. He'd want to end up a superstar otherwise Melbourne have just shot themselves in the foot with their long term development. Big risk. Calculated risk. But big!


Melbourne wasted 3000 points on Jack Watts but are wiling to sell him for 750 points a loss worth pick 3
We spent 3000 points on Paddy, he is yet to prove himself worth any points.
We can only hope he turns out better than Watts.


Paddy will be a gun starting next year.

And feel free to bookmark my post.

He looked awesome at the B & F. Lean and mean.

He has also grown since coming to the club.
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Re: Lever

Postby SaintPav » Sat 14 Oct 2017 1:33am

saynta wrote:
ace wrote:
stkfc1 wrote:Two Melbourne supporters I know arent happy at all. Glad he came to the club but both reckon club have paid too much. He'd want to end up a superstar otherwise Melbourne have just shot themselves in the foot with their long term development. Big risk. Calculated risk. But big!


Melbourne wasted 3000 points on Jack Watts but are wiling to sell him for 750 points a loss worth pick 3
We spent 3000 points on Paddy, he is yet to prove himself worth any points.
We can only hope he turns out better than Watts.


Paddy will be a gun starting next year.

And feel free to bookmark my post.

He looked awesome at the B & F. Lean and mean.

He has also grown since coming to the club.


I got a good feeling about this...
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Re: Lever

Postby Drake Huggins » Sat 14 Oct 2017 10:32am

Someone mentioned that at the B & F, Paddy was standing next to Baroose and looked taller. Baroose is listed as 197 cm. Paddy was drafted at 194 cm, IIRC. Has he grown that much or was he wearing high heels that night? If he's 197 and leaner and can run better as a result, there could be some happy times ahead.
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Re: Lever

Postby skeptic » Sat 14 Oct 2017 10:54am

saynta wrote:
ace wrote:
stkfc1 wrote:Two Melbourne supporters I know arent happy at all. Glad he came to the club but both reckon club have paid too much. He'd want to end up a superstar otherwise Melbourne have just shot themselves in the foot with their long term development. Big risk. Calculated risk. But big!


Melbourne wasted 3000 points on Jack Watts but are wiling to sell him for 750 points a loss worth pick 3
We spent 3000 points on Paddy, he is yet to prove himself worth any points.
We can only hope he turns out better than Watts.


Paddy will be a gun starting next year.

And feel free to bookmark my post.

He looked awesome at the B & F. Lean and mean.

He has also grown since coming to the club.



Geeez, u and I don't get on much these days but I'll kiss your feet if this is the case
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