I am worried ....

This unofficial St Kilda Saints fan forum is for people of all ages to chat Saints Footy and all posts must be respectful.

Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Sainter_Dad
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 5856
Joined: Thu 05 Jun 2008 1:04pm
Has thanked: 213 times
Been thanked: 995 times

I am worried ....

Post: # 1699913Post Sainter_Dad »

I am concerned that we have been promised a 'Big Fish'. With Kelly, Martin and Whitfield all recommitting, I am concerned that our 'think tank' will just grab anyone who comes along and parade them as a 'big fish'. I am still hopeful of getting a coup at the trade table, but I am concerned that we will get someone who whilst being a big name and an A grader is not as a significant improvement on what we already have.

For instance, if our forwards are rated 75's and midfielders 55's then there is more impact if we get an 85 midfielder than a 90 forward. In real terms, Stringer is not as much of an upgrade when compared to say Membrey, as Kelly would have been, giving us the speed and silk that we lack around the packs.

I know that I am not as clear on paper as is in my mind - but I just hope that we don't spend our tickets on an also ran who does not improve us the way we were promised.


“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”

― Aristophanes

If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
User avatar
GregPackhamsHeadband
Club Player
Posts: 495
Joined: Wed 02 Aug 2017 8:25pm
Location: Goward's Gulch

Re: I am worried ....

Post: # 1699914Post GregPackhamsHeadband »

Your concerns are realistic, and valid, Sainter Dad.


I think you're pretty tough, don't I?
supersaints
Club Player
Posts: 1701
Joined: Fri 18 May 2007 11:13am
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: I am worried ....

Post: # 1699922Post supersaints »

Don't think we are that stupid... but as Forest Gump said " Stupid is as Stupid does"

I'm sure other clubs will try to prise 7&8 off us....

No big fish so dangle smaller bait ...


And the president said " I did not have sex with that woman"
And our former president said " Football is like golf" 

Go Sainters !!!!!
thejiggingsaint
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 9354
Joined: Wed 03 Aug 2005 10:01pm
Has thanked: 625 times
Been thanked: 471 times

Re: I am worried ....

Post: # 1699928Post thejiggingsaint »

Worried? Nah! It's only football! Now if my cat gets sick........... THEN I worry.


St Kilda forever 🔴⚪️⚫️ ( God help me)
User avatar
Con Gorozidis
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 23532
Joined: Thu 19 Jun 2008 4:04pm
Has thanked: 100 times
Been thanked: 78 times

Re: I am worried ....

Post: # 1699941Post Con Gorozidis »

Why is everyone so keen to get rid of picks 7 & 8?

Is it because we dont trust our recruiters?

If yes then why not deal with that issue directly by improving or better resourcing our recruitment team?


DJ Higgins
Club Player
Posts: 1839
Joined: Fri 28 Oct 2016 11:59pm
Has thanked: 50 times
Been thanked: 266 times

Re: I am worried ....

Post: # 1699943Post DJ Higgins »

Con Gorozidis wrote:Why is everyone so keen to get rid of picks 7 & 8?

Is it because we dont trust our recruiters?

If yes then why not deal with that issue directly by improving or better resourcing our recruitment team?
Agree. completely. We have 2 top ten draft picks, use them to get 2 kids with potential and train them up. Thank god Hamill is gone as our forward went backwards last year so I am expecting a mid table finish again next year and then to jump the next year


takeaway
Club Player
Posts: 1730
Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2011 5:54pm
Has thanked: 115 times
Been thanked: 368 times

Re: I am worried ....

Post: # 1699949Post takeaway »

Sainter_Dad wrote:I am concerned that we have been promised a 'Big Fish'. With Kelly, Martin and Whitfield all recommitting, I am concerned that our 'think tank' will just grab anyone who comes along and parade them as a 'big fish'. I am still hopeful of getting a coup at the trade table, but I am concerned that we will get someone who whilst being a big name and an A grader is not as a significant improvement on what we already have.

For instance, if our forwards are rated 75's and midfielders 55's then there is more impact if we get an 85 midfielder than a 90 forward. In real terms, Stringer is not as much of an upgrade when compared to say Membrey, as Kelly would have been, giving us the speed and silk that we lack around the packs.

I know that I am not as clear on paper as is in my mind - but I just hope that we don't spend our tickets on an also ran who does not improve us the way we were promised.
Not sure we "were promised a big fish". I think the statement was more like we will be aggressive at FA and trading this year, and also the next couple of years. No club has landed a big fish yet this year, and we are a club in a stronger position than most with 2 top 10 picks & plenty of cap space.
We no doubt had a go at Kelly, and probably Fyfe, but very hard to shift and I am glad we didn't throw around huge $ offers like north. I have faith in Bains & Co, trading hasn't even started yet. Even using 7 & 8 at the draft is fine. Exciting times ahead.


Saintly Passion
Club Player
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu 22 Sep 2011 9:40pm
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: I am worried ....

Post: # 1699954Post Saintly Passion »

takeaway wrote:
Sainter_Dad wrote:I am concerned that we have been promised a 'Big Fish'. With Kelly, Martin and Whitfield all recommitting, I am concerned that our 'think tank' will just grab anyone who comes along and parade them as a 'big fish'. I am still hopeful of getting a coup at the trade table, but I am concerned that we will get someone who whilst being a big name and an A grader is not as a significant improvement on what we already have.

For instance, if our forwards are rated 75's and midfielders 55's then there is more impact if we get an 85 midfielder than a 90 forward. In real terms, Stringer is not as much of an upgrade when compared to say Membrey, as Kelly would have been, giving us the speed and silk that we lack around the packs.

I know that I am not as clear on paper as is in my mind - but I just hope that we don't spend our tickets on an also ran who does not improve us the way we were promised.
Not sure we "were promised a big fish". I think the statement was more like we will be aggressive at FA and trading this year, and also the next couple of years. No club has landed a big fish yet this year, and we are a club in a stronger position than most with 2 top 10 picks & plenty of cap space.
We no doubt had a go at Kelly, and probably Fyfe, but very hard to shift and I am glad we didn't throw around huge $ offers like north. I have faith in Bains & Co, trading hasn't even started yet. Even using 7 & 8 at the draft is fine. Exciting times ahead.
One of the most sensible posts I've read here in a while takeaway


saintly
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 5408
Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 10:29am
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 45 times

Re: I am worried ....

Post: # 1699959Post saintly »

Dont think its been the club thats said we will fet a big fish. Go through the saints site.


User avatar
saintsRrising
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 30034
Joined: Mon 15 Mar 2004 11:07am
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 700 times
Been thanked: 1212 times

Re: I am worried ....

Post: # 1699966Post saintsRrising »

Sainter_Dad wrote:I am concerned that we have been promised a 'Big Fish'. With Kelly, Martin and Whitfield all recommitting, I am concerned that our 'think tank' will just grab anyone who comes along and parade them as a 'big fish'..
And how would they pretend that a minnow is a BigFish. We all know who the BigFish are.


Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
User avatar
saintsRrising
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 30034
Joined: Mon 15 Mar 2004 11:07am
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 700 times
Been thanked: 1212 times

Re: I am worried ....

Post: # 1699967Post saintsRrising »

takeaway wrote:
Not sure we "were promised a big fish". I think the statement was more like we will be aggressive at FA and trading this year, and also the next couple of years. .
The inference was that it would be expensive FA which clearly was a "bigFish" even if the club did not use what is a slang term.

We have deliberately re-positioned our TPP model over the past 24 months from an extremely defensive (ie. constrained) position to a more balanced position in 2014/15 that will then allow us to aggressively pursue Free Agent players from 2016 onwards.


Free agency isn't on the agenda for the next two seasons but they expect to be serious players in the market in 2016.


So being serious players, freeing up cash to chase, plus to aggressively chase to me definitely means that they intended to chase BigFish.


PS: The BigFish plan was always flawed as BigFish rarely swap to lower placed teams.


Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
User avatar
saintsRrising
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 30034
Joined: Mon 15 Mar 2004 11:07am
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 700 times
Been thanked: 1212 times

Re: I am worried ....

Post: # 1699973Post saintsRrising »

Sainter_Dad wrote: In real terms, Stringer is not as much of an upgrade when compared to say Membrey, .
I know people keep saying this, BUT Stringer and Membrey do not play the same roles in a team

Membrey is a third tall marking forward.
Whereas Stringer is an outside fast running forward that can do bursts through the midfield.

While Stringer is taller than Membrey, he plays smaller. Stringer probably has more in common with Petracca than Membrey, though Petracca is more of a mid than Stringer.


Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
suss
Club Player
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sun 22 May 2005 11:42pm
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 90 times

Re: I am worried ....

Post: # 1699974Post suss »

saintsRrising wrote:
takeaway wrote:
Not sure we "were promised a big fish". I think the statement was more like we will be aggressive at FA and trading this year, and also the next couple of years. .
The inference was that it would be expensive FA which clearly was a "bigFish" even if the club did not use what is a slang term.

We have deliberately re-positioned our TPP model over the past 24 months from an extremely defensive (ie. constrained) position to a more balanced position in 2014/15 that will then allow us to aggressively pursue Free Agent players from 2016 onwards.


Free agency isn't on the agenda for the next two seasons but they expect to be serious players in the market in 2016.


So being serious players, freeing up cash to chase, plus to aggressively chase to me definitely means that they intended to chase BigFish.


PS: The BigFish plan was always flawed as BigFish rarely swap to lower placed teams.
The last big fish we got was Aaron Hamill. It's been a loooong time between drinks (speaking of which, I need one).


takeaway
Club Player
Posts: 1730
Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2011 5:54pm
Has thanked: 115 times
Been thanked: 368 times

Re: I am worried ....

Post: # 1699975Post takeaway »

saintsRrising wrote:
takeaway wrote:
Not sure we "were promised a big fish". I think the statement was more like we will be aggressive at FA and trading this year, and also the next couple of years. .
The inference was that it would be expensive FA which clearly was a "bigFish" even if the club did not use what is a slang term.

We have deliberately re-positioned our TPP model over the past 24 months from an extremely defensive (ie. constrained) position to a more balanced position in 2014/15 that will then allow us to aggressively pursue Free Agent players from 2016 onwards.


Free agency isn't on the agenda for the next two seasons but they expect to be serious players in the market in 2016.


So being serious players, freeing up cash to chase, plus to aggressively chase to me definitely means that they intended to chase BigFish.


PS: The BigFish plan was always flawed as BigFish rarely swap to lower placed teams.
Finnis said one option was to try for 2 x 7-800k players which in my view is a better option than one big fish. They may be doing just that, and that will not be easy either.
Might be more options available next year, go to the draft this year. Interesting to see what will happen. We have done Ok recently in bringing in Carlisle, Steele, Rice.


saynta
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 22436
Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 3:53pm
Has thanked: 8355 times
Been thanked: 3703 times

Re: I am worried ....

Post: # 1700015Post saynta »

thejiggingsaint wrote:Worried? Nah! It's only football! Now if my cat gets sick........... THEN I worry.

I can relate to that.


User avatar
degruch
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 8948
Joined: Mon 19 May 2008 4:29pm
Location: Croydonia
Has thanked: 146 times
Been thanked: 237 times

Re: I am worried ....

Post: # 1700018Post degruch »

When the club said they were prepared to trade aggressively this trade period, I didn't think that meant pick off a few straightforward free agents by dangling cash in front of them...the fun has yet to begin. There's a lot of movement potential with Stringer, Trengove, Ablett, Motlop, Lever, Gibbs, McGovern, Wilson, Kennedy and a brace of Suns players possibly wanting out, we're well stocked with cash, picks and, of course, a few players could move. Sit tight.

If nothing else we go to the draft with a strong hand.
Last edited by degruch on Wed 20 Sep 2017 12:56pm, edited 1 time in total.


Bruce G McAbee
Club Player
Posts: 1747
Joined: Tue 02 Jun 2015 7:09pm
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 165 times

Re: I am worried ....

Post: # 1700021Post Bruce G McAbee »

Actually, this looks like it is shaping up as one of the quietest trade periods.


Think of me long enough to make a memory.
User avatar
degruch
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 8948
Joined: Mon 19 May 2008 4:29pm
Location: Croydonia
Has thanked: 146 times
Been thanked: 237 times

Re: I am worried ....

Post: # 1700025Post degruch »

Bruce G McAbee wrote:Actually, this looks like it is shaping up as one of the quietest trade periods.
Maybe, but so far there's whispers or movement around Rockliff, Stringer, Trengove, Ablett, Motlop, Lever, Gibbs, M McGovern, D Smith, Wilson, M Kennedy, R Thompson, M Shaw, A Hall, McKenzie, Matera, Balic, Taberner, Armitage, Crameri, A Francis, Tippett, Watts and Gaff...so looks like business as usual to me.


Saintmatt
SS Life Member
Posts: 2513
Joined: Fri 20 Jan 2012 4:57pm
Has thanked: 2009 times
Been thanked: 1140 times

Re: I am worried ....

Post: # 1700052Post Saintmatt »

Con Gorozidis wrote:Why is everyone so keen to get rid of picks 7 & 8?

Is it because we dont trust our recruiters?

If yes then why not deal with that issue directly by improving or better resourcing our recruitment team?
I'm not so much worried about our recruiting - more how we then develop those recruits. We're poor at that historically. That is what what worries me.


Go you red, black & white warriors
Saintmatt
SS Life Member
Posts: 2513
Joined: Fri 20 Jan 2012 4:57pm
Has thanked: 2009 times
Been thanked: 1140 times

Re: I am worried ....

Post: # 1700053Post Saintmatt »

degruch wrote:
Bruce G McAbee wrote:Actually, this looks like it is shaping up as one of the quietest trade periods.
Maybe, but so far there's whispers or movement around Rockliff, Stringer, Trengove, Ablett, Motlop, Lever, Gibbs, M McGovern, D Smith, Wilson, M Kennedy, R Thompson, M Shaw, A Hall, McKenzie, Matera, Balic, Taberner, Armitage, Crameri, A Francis, Tippett, Watts and Gaff...so looks like business as usual to me.
M McGovern already re-signed with Adelaide pre finals


Go you red, black & white warriors
User avatar
magnifisaint
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 7641
Joined: Sun 02 May 2004 2:52am
Has thanked: 187 times
Been thanked: 528 times

Re: I am worried ....

Post: # 1700054Post magnifisaint »

I'm worried about Saintsational. Not much good reading on the site lately.


Posting 20 years of holey crap!
BringBackMadDog
Club Player
Posts: 1953
Joined: Thu 05 Aug 2004 9:29am
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 127 times

Re: I am worried ....

Post: # 1700057Post BringBackMadDog »

suss wrote:
saintsRrising wrote:
takeaway wrote:
Not sure we "were promised a big fish". I think the statement was more like we will be aggressive at FA and trading this year, and also the next couple of years. .
The inference was that it would be expensive FA which clearly was a "bigFish" even if the club did not use what is a slang term.

We have deliberately re-positioned our TPP model over the past 24 months from an extremely defensive (ie. constrained) position to a more balanced position in 2014/15 that will then allow us to aggressively pursue Free Agent players from 2016 onwards.


Free agency isn't on the agenda for the next two seasons but they expect to be serious players in the market in 2016.


So being serious players, freeing up cash to chase, plus to aggressively chase to me definitely means that they intended to chase BigFish.


PS: The BigFish plan was always flawed as BigFish rarely swap to lower placed teams.
The last big fish we got was Aaron Hamill. It's been a loooong time between drinks (speaking of which, I need one).
I would consider Carlisle a big fish.


MickThomas
Club Player
Posts: 631
Joined: Mon 21 Aug 2017 1:23am
Location: Doncaster, Victoria
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 33 times

Re: I am worried ....

Post: # 1700059Post MickThomas »

BringBackMadDog wrote:
suss wrote:
saintsRrising wrote:
takeaway wrote:
Not sure we "were promised a big fish". I think the statement was more like we will be aggressive at FA and trading this year, and also the next couple of years. .
The inference was that it would be expensive FA which clearly was a "bigFish" even if the club did not use what is a slang term.

We have deliberately re-positioned our TPP model over the past 24 months from an extremely defensive (ie. constrained) position to a more balanced position in 2014/15 that will then allow us to aggressively pursue Free Agent players from 2016 onwards.


Free agency isn't on the agenda for the next two seasons but they expect to be serious players in the market in 2016.


So being serious players, freeing up cash to chase, plus to aggressively chase to me definitely means that they intended to chase BigFish.


PS: The BigFish plan was always flawed as BigFish rarely swap to lower placed teams.
The last big fish we got was Aaron Hamill. It's been a loooong time between drinks (speaking of which, I need one).
I would consider Carlisle a big fish.
+1
And didn't we get the Gresh as well, as a result,
so wowee BT, methinks Saints did mighty fine outta that decision :mrgreen:


2020 was an aberration, when we travelled twice to Adelaide and won both, beat Tigers early, beat our bogey Swans. 2021 we've returned to our old ways. Damn
User avatar
degruch
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 8948
Joined: Mon 19 May 2008 4:29pm
Location: Croydonia
Has thanked: 146 times
Been thanked: 237 times

Re: I am worried ....

Post: # 1700062Post degruch »

Saintmatt wrote:
degruch wrote:
Bruce G McAbee wrote:Actually, this looks like it is shaping up as one of the quietest trade periods.
Maybe, but so far there's whispers or movement around Rockliff, Stringer, Trengove, Ablett, Motlop, Lever, Gibbs, M McGovern, D Smith, Wilson, M Kennedy, R Thompson, M Shaw, A Hall, McKenzie, Matera, Balic, Taberner, Armitage, Crameri, A Francis, Tippett, Watts and Gaff...so looks like business as usual to me.
M McGovern already re-signed with Adelaide pre finals
That changes everything then. :|


User avatar
St Chris
SS Hall of Fame
Posts: 2153
Joined: Wed 05 Apr 2006 2:20pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 41 times

Re: I am worried ....

Post: # 1700064Post St Chris »

Problem with using 7 & 8 is that Jack Steven will be 28 come Round 1, and Armo 29. When fully fit, both are still our best mids (or at least 2 of the best 3 with Seb).

For us to improve, we need players that will help right now, while Jack and Armo are still around. If we wait until Pick 7 & 8 have hit that magical 70-100 games mark, Jack and Armo are long gone. We're only replacing that quality as pick 7 & 8 become quality AFL footballers, not adding to it - the status quo remains and we become perennial mid-table finishers.

I know it sounds mental, but if we were happy to take 7 & 8 to the draft, we should look at trading Jack Steven because we're not gonna be a contender until it's too late for him. We should cash in now, as a "take one step back to take 2 steps forward" approach.


Post Reply