The under-performing season

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The under-performing season

Postby spert » Wed 13 Sep 2017 9:06am

Not impressed with how the club travelled this season- I thought it was a classic fail.

- Went backwards on the ladder
- Too many players didn't assert themselves in games
- No rising stars
- Lack of leadership by example from our leadership group
- One player just scraped into All-Australian consideration (Roberton)
- No Saint in the MVP, most courageous, best captain awards
- Poor skills, weak tackling
- Dragged through the gutter press with the slanging incident again Carlton
- Sandy disappointed in the VFL, with no Sandy player in the best VFL team
- Coach gets out-coached in many games


Only shining light for me was the improvement of Sinclair, Longer and Gresh and the solid form of Roberton.

Going to take a lot of soul-searching at the club to basically get stronger, smarter and more competitive in games.
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Re: The under-performing season

Postby GregPackhamsHeadband » Wed 13 Sep 2017 9:10am

spert wrote:Not impressed with how the club travelled this season- I thought it was a classic fail.

- Went backwards on the ladder
- Too many players didn't assert themselves in games
- No rising stars
- Lack of leadership by example from our leadership group
- One player just scraped into All-Australian consideration (Roberton)
- No Saint in the MVP, most courageous, best captain awards
- Poor skills, weak tackling
- Dragged through the gutter press with the slanging incident again Carlton
- Sandy disappointed in the VFL, with no Sandy player in the best VFL team
- Coach gets out-coached in many games


Only shining light for me was the improvement of Sinclair, Longer and Gresh and the solid form of Roberton.

Going to take a lot of soul-searching at the club to basically get stronger, smarter and more competitive in games.


An inconvenient truth, spert.
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Re: The under-performing season

Postby thejiggingsaint » Wed 13 Sep 2017 10:55am

Makes for depressing reading. Medicinal compound, anyone? :cry:
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Re: The under-performing season

Postby Selhurst Saint » Wed 13 Sep 2017 11:14am

Not a pretty summary, although you completely ignored the fact that Seb was in the AA squad and had an amazing breakout year.
"...If there has been one recurring theme through this whole shocking mess, it has been the misguided, inflated egos and their ill-judged determination to cling to long-standing old boy friendships. The bad advice that has guided the selfish and culpable James Hird has not only punctuated this saga but symbolised it..."
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Re: The under-performing season

Postby Beno88 » Wed 13 Sep 2017 12:11pm

As disappointing as the end to season 2017 was, we are improving.

Statistically, the following players improved in 2017. Most had career best seasons.

Seb Ross
Jack Billings
Jack Steele
Dylan Roberton
Luke Dunstan
Shane Savage
Jack Sinclair
Billy Longer
Blake Acres
Tim Membrey
Jimmy Webster
Josh Bruce
Jade Gresham
Darren Minchington
Jake Carlisle
Brandon White
Paddy McCartin

Only three of the players listed above have played over 100 games and most are under 25 years of age. So most, if not all, are yet to reach their peak. Collectively they make up a serious core.

In expecting so much from our players we lose sight of their age and experience. Take Acres and Sinclair for example, they’ve both played just 44 games, two full seasons. And yet they’re both already averaging over 20 touches a game.

We added Carlisle, Brown, Steele, Stevens. All were successful, important additions. Yes we have more holes to fill, as do most clubs, but we’re not that far away.

Rising Stars don’t mean much. Do we want more of Arryn Siposs and Jack Lonie, or more of Jimmy Webster and Jack Sinclair? The All Australians and individual accolades will come.

Between 2013 and 2015 we only managed wins against Melbourne, Carlton, GWS, Gold Coast, Fremantle, Essendon, Brisbane and Western Bulldogs (8 teams – of which only two played finals). We won 15 games across three years.

Across 2016 and 2017 we’ve beaten everyone bar Adelaide, Port Adelaide and Sydney (14 teams). We’ve beaten half the remaining finals teams this year. That gives us 23 wins across two years. That’s a 53% improvement on the three year period prior.

We may not be at the finals level we’d like to be just yet, but we are very close. Everything is tracking in the right direction. Our best can beat anyone, we just need to deliver it more often. That comes with confidence, experience and maturity, and that’s coming faster than you think.
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Re: The under-performing season

Postby thejiggingsaint » Wed 13 Sep 2017 12:22pm

GregPackhamsHeadband wrote:
spert wrote:Not impressed with how the club travelled this season- I thought it was a classic fail.

- Went backwards on the ladder
- Too many players didn't assert themselves in games
- No rising stars
- Lack of leadership by example from our leadership group
- One player just scraped into All-Australian consideration (Roberton)
- No Saint in the MVP, most courageous, best captain awards
- Poor skills, weak tackling
- Dragged through the gutter press with the slanging incident again Carlton
- Sandy disappointed in the VFL, with no Sandy player in the best VFL team
- Coach gets out-coached in many games


Only shining light for me was the improvement of Sinclair, Longer and Gresh and the solid form of Roberton.

Going to take a lot of soul-searching at the club to basically get stronger, smarter and more competitive in games.


An inconvenient truth, spert.


I guess two good wins on the road ( with another one being snatched from us at the death) aren't part of your equation?
I wonder just how many Richmond supporters were saying almost exactly the same thing as the OP, last year?
I don't shy away from the fact that we didn't do as well as many of us expected, but things can change RAPIDLY!
Just go back to 2007- we miss finals altogether then in 2008 top four with a prelim final appearance.
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Re: The under-performing season

Postby SaintPav » Wed 13 Sep 2017 12:33pm

Lack of star power is a concern.

We literally have no one who can turn a game.

Not only does Richo get out coached, he gets easily out coached.

Our game plan sucks or our execution of it sucks. I'm not sure which. Probably both.
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Re: The under-performing season

Postby thejiggingsaint » Wed 13 Sep 2017 12:43pm

SaintPav wrote:Lack of star power is a concern.

We literally have no one who can turn a game.

Not only does Richo get out coached, he gets easily out coached.

Our game plan sucks or our execution of it sucks. I'm not sure which. Probably both.


People were saying pretty much the same thing about Lyon's gameplan at the conclusion of 2007
Just saying.......
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Re: The under-performing season

Postby spert » Wed 13 Sep 2017 1:17pm

Sounds a bit depressing I know, but in the end, we went backwards as a club- two slots further from finals footy than last year and that is the grim reality rather than look at individuals who had some good patches, or winning a couple of interstate games. It has to be a lot better next year, and good luck to those involved.
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Re: The under-performing season

Postby thejiggingsaint » Wed 13 Sep 2017 1:49pm

spert wrote:Sounds a bit depressing I know, but in the end, we went backwards as a club- two slots further from finals footy than last year and that is the grim reality rather than look at individuals who had some good patches, or winning a couple of interstate games. It has to be a lot better next year, and good luck to those involved.


Hear hear! Good approach to the future there spert! Kudos my friend!
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Re: The under-performing season

Postby Sainternist » Wed 13 Sep 2017 2:09pm

It was a classic fall this year. We went from 9th down to 11th and 12 wins to 11 wins. What a fall from grace!

Cheer up, Spert!
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Re: The under-performing season

Postby carn_sainter » Wed 13 Sep 2017 2:10pm

I think we improved in the sense that the 2017 Saints would demolish the 2016 Saints. Maybe not demolish, but it would be a comfortable win.

Overall though, we went backwards relative to the competition when assessed with valid measures: Wins, Losses, Ladder position.

For me, we went from being a team in 2016 that was actually pretty hard to play against but lacking polish and a couple of positions to a team in 2017 that was far, far easier to play against and only a little bit more polished but better structured (mainly Carlisle). If we toughen up mentally, play smarter and kick an extra 3 or 4 goals per game, we'll be a good unit. Added guns will help, but we're nowhere near the ceiling of what the current list can give.


Next season, we lose our second most important player structurally - Roo - and need to find a replacement for him. I vote Membrey, provided that he is not needed closer to goal, which will depend obviously on the rest of the team. If not Membrey, Acres. This is just one of 22 or so questions for next season.
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Re: The under-performing season

Postby happy feet » Wed 13 Sep 2017 2:13pm

I was very pleased to see the Swans belt Essendope - but thought to myself that if we had made the finals it would be us that is on the end of that hiding.

We are not up to finals. Quote stats, regret close games lost, try to figure out who will get better, but for me 2017 was very frustrating in that we played sloppy, unpolished football that exposed our skill level as generally very poor.
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Re: The under-performing season

Postby SaintPav » Wed 13 Sep 2017 2:25pm

thejiggingsaint wrote:
SaintPav wrote:Lack of star power is a concern.

We literally have no one who can turn a game.

Not only does Richo get out coached, he gets easily out coached.

Our game plan sucks or our execution of it sucks. I'm not sure which. Probably both.


People were saying pretty much the same thing about Lyon's gameplan at the conclusion of 2007
Just saying.......


2007 was Lyon's first year. Richo has just had his fourth year.

It's difficult to make comparisons.

Just saying, ha? :D

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Re: The under-performing season

Postby saintspremiers » Wed 13 Sep 2017 6:48pm

happy feet wrote:I was very pleased to see the Swans belt Essendope - but thought to myself that if we had made the finals it would be us that is on the end of that hiding.

We are not up to finals. Quote stats, regret close games lost, try to figure out who will get better, but for me 2017 was very frustrating in that we played sloppy, unpolished football that exposed our skill level as generally very poor.


I would take an Essendope flogging in the finals anyday over finishing 11th

This year was never about winning the flag or even getting close, it was just about making up finals.

A right royal flogging is sometimes good. But thats for another forum I guess.
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Re: The under-performing season

Postby GregPackhamsHeadband » Wed 13 Sep 2017 8:53pm

saintspremiers wrote:
happy feet wrote:I was very pleased to see the Swans belt Essendope - but thought to myself that if we had made the finals it would be us that is on the end of that hiding.

We are not up to finals. Quote stats, regret close games lost, try to figure out who will get better, but for me 2017 was very frustrating in that we played sloppy, unpolished football that exposed our skill level as generally very poor.


I would take an Essendope flogging in the finals anyday over finishing 11th

This year was never about winning the flag or even getting close, it was just about making up finals.

A right royal flogging is sometimes good. But thats for another forum I guess.

Well don't stop now! Do tell........... :wink:
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