Josh Kelly; a "Messiah"?

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Josh Kelly; a "Messiah"?

Postby thejiggingsaint » Sat 09 Sep 2017 5:27pm

Kelly is an excellent footballer, absolutely no doubt about THAT. Would he be a great addition to our playing list? absolutely no doubt about THAT. Is he the "missing link" the ingredient to guarantee a premiership? No, not really, he's not even the "missing link" for a flag for GWS! Far too much expectations being placed at the feet of this young man.
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Re: Josh Kelly; a "Messiah"?

Postby GregPackhamsHeadband » Sat 09 Sep 2017 5:49pm

Agreed, Jiggster. We have a long history of relying on "messiahs". We do need him and he would be a crucial acquisition, but what we need more is rapid improvement and development of the talent we have. We have talent on the list in White, McCartin, Goddard, Pierce, Freeman and McKenzie, who for one reason or another haven't progressed as hoped. Just a couple of those stepping up into being good, consistent players would be an enormous help.
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Re: Josh Kelly; a "Messiah"?

Postby longtimesaint » Sat 09 Sep 2017 5:55pm

Supporters will always get excited about the "boom" recruit and in particular in this day of Internet forums.
However I am sure that the recruiters and coaches would know that if we get Kelly this would only be one element of building s team to challenge for a premiership.
You keep building in every area until you have that team.
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Re: Josh Kelly; a "Messiah"?

Postby thejiggingsaint » Sat 09 Sep 2017 6:00pm

GregPackhamsHeadband wrote:Agreed, Jiggster. We have a long history of relying on "messiahs". We do need him and he would be a crucial acquisition, but what we need more is rapid improvement and development of the talent we have. We have talent on the list in White, McCartin, Goddard, Pierce, Freeman and McKenzie, who for one reason or another haven't progressed as hoped. Just a couple of those stepping up into being good, consistent players would be an enormous help.


Yes mate, we both agree that having a player of Josh Kelly's ability on our list would go a long way toward taking us to the next stage of our development. What concerns me however, is the amount of hype being generated around Kelly's presence on the list being all that's needed for the Saints to win the flag. THAT is (IMHO) doing neither the player or the recruiters any favours whatsoever.
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Re: Josh Kelly; a "Messiah"?

Postby saintsRrising » Sat 09 Sep 2017 6:45pm

thejiggingsaint wrote:Kelly is an excellent footballer, absolutely no doubt about THAT. Would he be a great addition to our playing list? absolutely no doubt about THAT. Is he the "missing link" the ingredient to guarantee a premiership? No, not really, he's not even the "missing link" for a flag for GWS! Far too much expectations being placed at the feet of this young man.


Sorry, but who is labelling him as a messiah or missing link to a guaranteed GF win? I must have missed those posts and conversations. The ones I have read have been on the Saints needing a number of guns.

I doubt anyone has said that all that Kelly by himself will be the difference for St Kilda.



He is simply the best of the gettable players, and has the skillset that we lack in the position that we need it most in. So he would be a great acquisition for the Saints.

A very good player yes, but not a Dusty or a Dangerfield and even both of those players do not get a you flag by themselves.

BUT yes he can make a significant difference by being one of a number of elite players that we need but do not have. But not THE difference.

We currently do not have one elite player. Carlisle was close this year, and lets hope that with Steven that it was his lung injury rather than the tagging that saw him dip this year.


We need elite players, and not one player and that is what I believe that people have actually been saying.
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Re: Josh Kelly; a "Messiah"?

Postby kosifantutti » Sat 09 Sep 2017 9:14pm

We need more Messiahs and fewer naughty boys.
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Re: Josh Kelly; a "Messiah"?

Postby The Fireman » Sat 09 Sep 2017 9:15pm

I think it shows how desperate we are atm, poor year and a poor forecast, all we can talk about now is who we can pinch...sad times.
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Re: Josh Kelly; a "Messiah"?

Postby SaintPav » Sat 09 Sep 2017 9:18pm

Not as bad as wanting to finish towards the bottom every year.
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Re: Josh Kelly; a "Messiah"?

Postby The Fireman » Sat 09 Sep 2017 9:25pm

SaintPav wrote:Not as bad as wanting to finish towards the bottom every year.

torn
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Re: Josh Kelly; a "Messiah"?

Postby Bernard Shakey » Sat 09 Sep 2017 10:07pm

What type of player are we in need of? The Lenny Hayes type of player.
Who is the midfield coach at GWS? Surprise surprise it's Lenny Hayes!
Who does Josh Kelly play like? Surprise surprise it's Lenny Hayes!

He's not the messiah, but he's who we need right now!
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Re: Josh Kelly; a "Messiah"?

Postby saints66 » Sat 09 Sep 2017 10:17pm

thejiggingsaint wrote:
GregPackhamsHeadband wrote:Agreed, Jiggster. We have a long history of relying on "messiahs". We do need him and he would be a crucial acquisition, but what we need more is rapid improvement and development of the talent we have. We have talent on the list in White, McCartin, Goddard, Pierce, Freeman and McKenzie, who for one reason or another haven't progressed as hoped. Just a couple of those stepping up into being good, consistent players would be an enormous help.


Yes mate, we both agree that having a player of Josh Kelly's ability on our list would go a long way toward taking us to the next stage of our development. What concerns me however, is the amount of hype being generated around Kelly's presence on the list being all that's needed for the Saints to win the flag. THAT is (IMHO) doing neither the player or the recruiters any favours whatsoever.


Dustin Martin did a fair job to get Richmond into a Prelim.
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Re: Josh Kelly; a "Messiah"?

Postby thejiggingsaint » Sat 09 Sep 2017 11:07pm

saints66 wrote:
thejiggingsaint wrote:
GregPackhamsHeadband wrote:Agreed, Jiggster. We have a long history of relying on "messiahs". We do need him and he would be a crucial acquisition, but what we need more is rapid improvement and development of the talent we have. We have talent on the list in White, McCartin, Goddard, Pierce, Freeman and McKenzie, who for one reason or another haven't progressed as hoped. Just a couple of those stepping up into being good, consistent players would be an enormous help.


Yes mate, we both agree that having a player of Josh Kelly's ability on our list would go a long way toward taking us to the next stage of our development. What concerns me however, is the amount of hype being generated around Kelly's presence on the list being all that's needed for the Saints to win the flag. THAT is (IMHO) doing neither the player or the recruiters any favours whatsoever.


Dustin Martin did a fair job to get Richmond into a Prelim.

Caddy didn't do too bad. Prestia didn't do too bad. Cotchin didn't do too bad. Rance didn't do too bad. Martin was a PART of a TEAM effort!
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Re: Josh Kelly; a "Messiah"?

Postby saints66 » Sun 10 Sep 2017 12:08am

we all know it takes 22 but Martins class shone out in the last quarter and won the game for them. We could do with someone like him instead of what we dish up some weeks.
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Re: Josh Kelly; a "Messiah"?

Postby skeptic » Sun 10 Sep 2017 12:17am

I think u guys are in furious agreement
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Re: Josh Kelly; a "Messiah"?

Postby Con Gorozidis » Sun 10 Sep 2017 12:25am

I agree one single star makes a huge difference. But really you need 2-4 stars.

Recruiting Kelly will suddenly make all our s*** players good.
Suddenly we will learn how to tackle.
Suddenly we will kick straight.
Suddenly we will not kick backwards and around the boundary.
Suddenly the Red Sea will part.
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Re: Josh Kelly; a "Messiah"?

Postby Saints43 » Sun 10 Sep 2017 12:50am

Con Gorozidis wrote:I agree one single star makes a huge difference. But really you need 2-4 stars.

Recruiting Kelly will suddenly make all our s*** players good.
Suddenly we will learn how to tackle.
Suddenly we will kick straight.
Suddenly we will not kick backwards and around the boundary.
Suddenly the Red Sea will part.


Plastic sheets.
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Re: Josh Kelly; a "Messiah"?

Postby saints66 » Sun 10 Sep 2017 1:01am

That trick with the Red Sea has already been done. The other tricks you ask for are much harder to achieve. But Footscray and Richmond has/are showing the way.

I bet any St Kilda supporter who watched the Richmond game would have said to themselves I wish we could have got Martin. Yes he wont win a premiership on his own but at least we would have had an A grade player and his team play would have helped the other 21 players to perform at a higher level. Now if we can get Kelly and a couple of good draft selections (big if) then maybe just maybe we will be better at tackling kicking etc.

We will leave the parting of the sea until after the Premiership celebrations .
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Re: Josh Kelly; a "Messiah"?

Postby saintsRrising » Sun 10 Sep 2017 2:15am

thejiggingsaint wrote: What concerns me however, is the amount of hype being generated around Kelly's presence on the list being all that's needed for the Saints to win the flag. THAT is (IMHO) doing neither the player or the recruiters any favours whatsoever.


What rubbish. No one is saying what you claim.
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Re: Josh Kelly; a "Messiah"?

Postby MickThomas » Sun 10 Sep 2017 2:49am

The hype over Kelly is widely acknowledged to be just ONE element missing in the jigsaw.
Everyone barking and getting hard over Kelly is also saying the coaches
need to get much much better, or be replaced.
And they want Paddy to come good, or replace him with a gun forward.

I don't see anyone suggesting that JK will transform tbe team on his own.
Relax the jiggling for a bit
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Re: Josh Kelly; a "Messiah"?

Postby fugazi » Sun 10 Sep 2017 3:44am

It is amazing the difference a couple of class players make.
Take Rance, Cotchin and Martin out of that team and they are a bunch of B- B+ players....
If we can develop Billings , Acres, Gresham to have that sort of class and snare a Kelly or equivalent...than we could make a big step forward also.
I think our team from players 4-22 is at least as good as Tigers.
From 1-4 they are comfortably ahead.
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Re: Josh Kelly; a "Messiah"?

Postby Devilhead » Sun 10 Sep 2017 4:09am

fugazi wrote:It is amazing the difference a couple of class players make.
Take Rance, Cotchin and Martin out of that team and they are a bunch of B- B+ players....
If we can develop Billings , Acres, Gresham to have that sort of class and snare a Kelly or equivalent...than we could make a big step forward also.
I think our team from players 4-22 is at least as good as Tigers.
From 1-4 they are comfortably ahead.


Yet we beat them very comfortably by 67pts
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Re: Josh Kelly; a "Messiah"?

Postby GregPackhamsHeadband » Sun 10 Sep 2017 8:04am

Why don't we develop our own messiah? Who would be potential candidates? Billings? Acres? Gresham? McCartin (gulp)?
I think you're pretty tough, don't I?
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Re: Josh Kelly; a "Messiah"?

Postby SaintPav » Sun 10 Sep 2017 10:12am

GregPackhamsHeadband wrote:Why don't we develop our own messiah? Who would be potential candidates? Billings? Acres? Gresham? McCartin (gulp)?


Might not be on the list yet.

Norf haven't had a messiah since Carey. Hope it doesn't take that long.
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Re: Josh Kelly; a "Messiah"?

Postby Joffa Burns » Sun 10 Sep 2017 2:31pm

My dream!

Kelly & pick #25 for our first two pick plus Lonie.
#25 plus our first round next year for Stringer & their 2nd round this year.
Rocky free agent.
Trengove PA free agent.
Throw in the cannon for pick #61
Gaff as free agent in 2019.

Yep, no kids in next two years, but I back elite talent in Stringer, Kelly and Gaff over what our recruiters could do with our picks.
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Re: Josh Kelly; a "Messiah"?

Postby SaintPav » Sun 10 Sep 2017 2:44pm

Joffa Burns wrote:My dream!

Kelly & pick #25 for our first two pick plus Lonie.
#25 plus our first round next year for Stringer & their 2nd round this year.
Rocky free agent.
Trengove PA free agent.
Throw in the cannon for pick #61
Gaff as free agent in 2019.

Yep, no kids in next two years, but I back elite talent in Stringer, Kelly and Gaff over what our recruiters could do with our picks.


Who is the cannon?

Hear what Hinkley said about Trengove last night?

Sounds like he's on hi way out.
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