If worst comes to worst

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If worst comes to worst

Postby The_President » Thu 07 Sep 2017 10:27am

If we can't land Kelly in a trade.

Would you give the Saints a pass mark if we added:
- Rocky (FA)
- Trengrove (FA)
- Motlop (FA/Second rounder)

Plus then taking picks 7&8 into the draft.

Rocky gives us another real midfield bull, who can also explode out of packs and kick goal
Trengrove gives us depth in the backline & probably makes Nath Brown a back up. Trengrove also did some ruck duties at Port which means Bruce won't have to.
Motlop gives us some speed, class and goal kicking (Inconsistent yes, but absolutely brilliant when he's on... A clear upgrade on Lonie, Minch, Wright & co)

B: Geary, Trengrove Webster
HB: White, Carlisle, Roberton
C: Motlop, Ross, Sinclair
HF: Billings, Bruce, Acres
F: Membrey, McCartin, Gresham
Foll: Longer, Steven, Rocky

Int: Gilbert, Steele, Dunstan, Newnes

Emerg: Freeman, Stevens, Marshall, Savage, Brown, Armo

Is this squad an improvement on 2017?
We don't land a big fish like Kelly, Martin or Whitfield...but we rely on our own to step up again, guys like
- Billings
- Sinclair
- Acres
- Dunstan
- Steele
- Gresham (If he can build a bigger tank in the offseason and float through the middle more)

Are we actually better off holding on to picks 7&8 and just bringing in FA like Rocky, Tregrove & Motlop to compliment the list and back some of the young blokes to keep improving?
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Re: If worst comes to worst

Postby bigcarl » Thu 07 Sep 2017 11:14am

Back our own young guys in to improve and invest in the draft with picks seven and eight.

Do we really need another midfield "bull" to complement Dunstan, Steele, Armitage, Stevens? IMO no. We have more than enough of that type already.

This is what I wrote in another thread and it sank without comment, so to save having to bump it, I'll whack it in here:

parkeysainter wrote:Decent side.

I personally don't think we can have Dunstan, Armitage, Steele and Koby Stevens in the same side if all fit and ready. At least 1 of them would miss as all way to similar in game style and position.


Richo simply HAS TO get the balance right on this next season.

No sense having four tough, solid in-and-under extractors on the ball and as a result depriving guys like Billings, Acres, Gresham and Sinclair of time in the middle.

If we are going to play all four of Dunstan, Armitage, Steele and Stevens they need to also be be able to slot in elsewhere ... as flanker or small forwards.

I actually rate all four very highly. It's just that they are very similar in style and need to develop other strings to their bows.

Dunstan is showing signs already that there is more than a one-dimensional plodder, developing a sweeping left foot and becoming a handy goal-kicker. The others need to do the same.

Richo MUST get this right for this side to really click. That he won't is my biggest concern about next season.

I feel this issue is so important that ultimately his job will depend on getting it right.
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Re: If worst comes to worst

Postby Con Gorozidis » Thu 07 Sep 2017 12:30pm

Using top ten picks in the draft is not bad. It is good. A huge win.
We should invest heavily in assistance and intelligence to make sure we get these picks right.
If we drafted well and pick up one player as a FA that is a huge win.

Ridiculous to expect we will get all three of those as a FA. Won't happen.
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Re: If worst comes to worst

Postby dragit » Thu 07 Sep 2017 1:38pm

Con Gorozidis wrote:Using top ten picks in the draft is not bad. It is good. A huge win.
We should invest heavily in assistance and intelligence to make sure we get these picks right.
If we drafted well and pick up one player as a FA that is a huge win.

Ridiculous to expect we will get all three of those as a FA. Won't happen.

The reality is that even with the best resource on hand some top ten picks don't make it or are superseded by players taken later in the draft.

It happens every year and is not isolated to poorly resourced clubs. Some drafts just don't have much talent and this one is meant to be pretty poor.

Have a look at the 2009 draft
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_AFL_draft

4 out of 10 aren't playing at AFL level, 2 more are very average. Picks 11 & 12 were Gysberts & Kane Lucas

So 3 out of the first 12 players have really delivered on their early draft position. 25% is a terrifying but real possibility.
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Re: If worst comes to worst

Postby Sainternist » Thu 07 Sep 2017 1:41pm

I hear Gaff may be asking to be traded by the Weagles. He could also be a decent acquisition if we can't land Kelly.

That said, we really need Kelly.
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Re: If worst comes to worst

Postby supersaints » Thu 07 Sep 2017 2:14pm

bigcarl wrote:Back our own young guys in to improve and invest in the draft with picks seven and eight.

Do we really need another midfield "bull" to complement Dunstan, Steele, Armitage, Stevens? IMO no. We have more than enough of that type already.

This is what I wrote in another thread and it sank without comment, so to save having to bump it, I'll whack it in here:

parkeysainter wrote:Decent side.

I personally don't think we can have Dunstan, Armitage, Steele and Koby Stevens in the same side if all fit and ready. At least 1 of them would miss as all way to similar in game style and position.


Richo simply HAS TO get the balance right on this next season.

No sense having four tough, solid in-and-under extractors on the ball and as a result depriving guys like Billings, Acres, Gresham and Sinclair of time in the middle.

If we are going to play all four of Dunstan, Armitage, Steele and Stevens they need to also be be able to slot in elsewhere ... as flanker or small forwards.

I know it's only Hamill ( and I have some reservations regarding the forward line coaching this year. But in his end of season wrap up he stated that both Billi he and Gresch
I actually rate all four very highly. It's just that they are very similar in style and need to develop other strings to their bows.

Dunstan is showing signs already that there is more than a one-dimensional plodder, developing a sweeping left foot and becoming a handy goal-kicker. The others need to do the same.

Richo MUST get this right for this side to really click. That he won't is my biggest concern about next season.

I feel this issue is so important that ultimately his job will depend on getting it right.


Hamill said in his end of season wrap up that Billings and Gresch would get increased time in the midfield next year, Gresch. Was more limited in that he has a poor tank at the moment, both will be doing a lot of the pre season in the middle
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Re: If worst comes to worst

Postby DJ Higgins » Thu 07 Sep 2017 2:34pm

It is far from the worst thing to take both our picks to the draft, in fact I want it to happen. We need 2 more players, an outside mid and a key defender and we can get both with our picks. Kelly is a gun sure but he cant play defence and the midfield plus he is unlikely to come to us if he leaves. Let make our draft pickers earn their money and hopefully get in two you guns of our own. This year talent looks good and their is a lot of depth so we should target free agents where possible and use our picks as they are meant to be used
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Re: If worst comes to worst

Postby parkeysainter » Thu 07 Sep 2017 8:27pm

Its not the end of the world if we use our two top picks in the draft. It could be much worse for us and we have nothing at all.

There is a high chance that whoever we take in the draft that both kids will turn into good and regular senior players in 2-4 years given they're top 10. The recruiting staff must turn over every stone to get it right.

I would still prefer JK though.In any case, the Saints just need to buckle up and get on with it next season whatever happens.
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Re: If worst comes to worst

Postby thejiggingsaint » Thu 07 Sep 2017 8:36pm

parkeysainter wrote:Its not the end of the world if we use our two top picks in the draft. It could be much worse for us and we have nothing at all.

There is a high chance that whoever we take in the draft that both kids will turn into good and regular senior players in 2-4 years given they're top 10. The recruiting staff must turn over every stone to get it right.

I would still prefer JK though.In any case, the Saints just need to buckle up and get on with it next season whatever happens.


Sounds a sensible and reasonable post to me!
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Re: If worst comes to worst

Postby SMS » Thu 07 Sep 2017 11:33pm

i like the thought process
im really liking stephenson obrien cerra hunter fogarty id rather get two of those and grab as you say a FA or two.
stephenson could be anythin!!! i think if we get him for 7 bargain!!
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Re: If worst comes to worst

Postby Toy Saint » Thu 07 Sep 2017 11:54pm

Sainternist wrote:I hear Gaff may be asking to be traded by the Weagles. He could also be a decent acquisition if we can't land Kelly.

That said, we really need Kelly.


Very interesting if true, swap Gaff for Acres?

Not sure who gets the better of that deal..
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Re: If worst comes to worst

Postby Con Gorozidis » Fri 08 Sep 2017 12:02am

Toy Saint wrote:
Sainternist wrote:I hear Gaff may be asking to be traded by the Weagles. He could also be a decent acquisition if we can't land Kelly.

That said, we really need Kelly.


Very interesting if true, swap Gaff for Acres?

Not sure who gets the better of that deal..


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Re: If worst comes to worst

Postby The_President » Fri 08 Sep 2017 12:16am

Con Gorozidis wrote:
Toy Saint wrote:
Sainternist wrote:I hear Gaff may be asking to be traded by the Weagles. He could also be a decent acquisition if we can't land Kelly.

That said, we really need Kelly.


Very interesting if true, swap Gaff for Acres?

Not sure who gets the better of that deal..


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Very good Con.
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Re: If worst comes to worst

Postby saints66 » Sat 09 Sep 2017 2:04am

parkeysainter wrote:Its not the end of the world if we use our two top picks in the draft. It could be much worse for us and we have nothing at all.

There is a high chance that whoever we take in the draft that both kids will turn into good and regular senior players in 2-4 years given they're top 10. The recruiting staff must turn over every stone to get it right.

I would still prefer JK though.In any case, the Saints just need to buckle up and get on with it next season whatever happens.


yeah like Jamie Cripps, Tom Lynch and Paddy McCartin
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Re: If worst comes to worst

Postby bigcarl » Sat 09 Sep 2017 2:38am

Toy Saint wrote:
Sainternist wrote:I hear Gaff may be asking to be traded by the Weagles. He could also be a decent acquisition if we can't land Kelly.

That said, we really need Kelly.


Very interesting if true, swap Gaff for Acres?..


Nuh
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Re: If worst comes to worst

Postby mad saint guy » Sat 09 Sep 2017 3:56am

I would definitely be offering pick 7 for Gaff while trying to sign Trengove, Rockliff and either Matera or Motlop as free agents if we can't land Kelly. We would add an elite inside mid, elite outside mid, a more talented/versatile/younger alternative to Brown and a more talented small forward than any of our current fringe options. All at the cost of one first round draft pick and some cap space that we desperately need to fill anyway.

B: Geary, Trengove, Webster
HB: Roberton, Carlisle, Savage
C: Gaff, Rockliff, Sinclair
HF: Billings, Bruce, Gresham
F: Membrey, McCartin, Matera

Foll: Longer, Steven, Ross
Int: Acres, Newnes, Dunstan, Steele

Fringe: Gilbert, Brown, Hickey, Stevens, Armitage, Weller, Freeman, Marshall, White, Goddard, McKenzie

That side is balanced, has enough stars and enough depth to be a lock for finals.
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Re: If worst comes to worst

Postby Goose is king » Sat 09 Sep 2017 12:51pm

[quote="dragit"][quote="Con Gorozidis"]Using top ten picks in the draft is not bad. It is good. A huge win.
We should invest heavily in assistance and intelligence to make sure we get these picks right.
If we drafted well and pick up one player as a FA that is a huge win.

Ridiculous to expect we will get all three of those as a FA. Won't happen.[/quote]
The reality is that even with the best resource on hand some top ten picks don't make it or are superseded by players taken later in the draft.

It happens every year and is not isolated to poorly resourced clubs. Some drafts just don't have much talent and this one is meant to be pretty poor.

Have a look at the 2009 draft
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_AFL_draft[/url]

4 out of 10 aren't playing at AFL level, 2 more are very average. Picks 11 & 12 were Gysberts & Kane Lucas

So 3 out of the first 12 players have really delivered on their early draft position. 25% is a terrifying but real possibility.[/quote]

But with pick 7 and 8 in that draft we could of got Fyfe and Gawn.
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Re: If worst comes to worst

Postby Con Gorozidis » Sat 09 Sep 2017 2:20pm

Here is my official wish list:

6 ON

Pick 7 = Brander or Fogarty
Pick 8 = Whitfield
Pick 47 = Best available in draft

Promote = Connellan, Marshall, O'Kearney

6 OFF

Joey, Roo, Dempster, Wright, Lonie, Holmes
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Re: If worst comes to worst

Postby dragit » Sat 09 Sep 2017 2:49pm

Goose is king wrote:But with pick 7 and 8 in that draft we could of got Fyfe and Gawn.

Sure thing, you could also win tattslotto every single week.
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Re: If worst comes to worst

Postby saints66 » Sun 10 Sep 2017 5:56pm

Con Gorozidis wrote:Here is my official wish list:

6 ON

Pick 7 = Brander or Fogarty
Pick 8 = Whitfield
Pick 47 = Best available in draft

Promote = Connellan, Marshall, O'Kearney

6 OFF

Joey, Roo, Dempster, Wright, Lonie, Holmes


Nice wishlist. Agree with the rookie elevations. Brander and Fogarty (if you mean Darcy) are KPP and we need skilled quick mids. Maybe Dow, Coffield, Cerra or Garner depending on whose left.
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Re: If worst comes to worst

Postby Con Gorozidis » Sun 10 Sep 2017 6:22pm

saints66 wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote:Here is my official wish list:

6 ON

Pick 7 = Brander or Fogarty
Pick 8 = Whitfield
Pick 47 = Best available in draft

Promote = Connellan, Marshall, O'Kearney

6 OFF

Joey, Roo, Dempster, Wright, Lonie, Holmes


Nice wishlist. Agree with the rookie elevations. Brander and Fogarty (if you mean Darcy) are KPP and we need skilled quick mids. Maybe Dow, Coffield, Cerra or Garner depending on whose left.


Assuming Whitfield stays at GWS then:


6 ON

Pick 7 = Brander/Fogarty
Pick 8 = Stephenson/Dow
Pick 47 = Best available in draft

Promote = Connellan, Marshall, O'Kearney

6 OFF

Joey, Roo, Dempster, Wright, Lonie, Holmes[/quote]
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Re: If worst comes to worst

Postby saints66 » Sun 10 Sep 2017 6:59pm

Dont think we will get Whitfield and personally would not be upset. Now Kelly is a different cat and would make a big difference. Would like to see the three rookie elevations play a lot of the pre season comp and get early games if they perform. Not sold on Stephenson. Brander and Fogerty wont have much immediate impact and we have Battle and Goddard before them. What we dont have is a couple of quick outside mids that will make immediate impact from Round 1. Dow would help and hoping, if we cant get Kelly with 7 plus a player, that we can get Davies-Uniacke or Cerra or Coffield. or Garner.
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Re: If worst comes to worst

Postby evo » Sun 10 Sep 2017 7:05pm

If we still have picks 7 & 8 come draft time then our recruiting has failed badly.
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Re: If worst comes to worst

Postby Con Gorozidis » Sun 10 Sep 2017 8:38pm

evo wrote:If we still have picks 7 & 8 come draft time then our recruiting has failed badly.


Why?
What if we used pick 7 trading for Tippett or Vickery. Would you be happy with that?

How about if we actually invested in some intelligence and got two young guns with our draft picks?

It would be foolish to panic and look to give our draft picks away just because we dont trust our recruiters.

If we dont trust our recruiters then lets get some outside consultants in to help them.
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Re: If worst comes to worst

Postby SaintPav » Sun 10 Sep 2017 11:20pm

Yeah, lets pay one million for 'intelligence' that will be obsolete in 3 minutes.

Brilliant Con.

Any other cool ideas?
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