Jaxons come on down (2017/18 thread)

[Jacks Back]

I don't claim to be an ITK, but I heard some reliable info last night. A friend of mine is acquainted with many in the Industry (former & current Players & Coaches and SEN people), he's not a St Kilda supporter.

Firstly he had the mail on Stringer. It appears he has gambling problems, to the point where he has blown all his money. I can actually possibly corroborate this, as I have seen Stringer come out of the local Pokie joint on 2 occasions, late at night on a weekday. I live in the Western Suburbs these days. So his wife has probably left him for good reason unfortunately.

Geelong consider themselves in 'the window' and are prepared to take a punt on him, his Manager wants him to go to Geelong because he thinks they have the culture that may help him. However Essendon are hovering and waiting for Geelong to make an offer which they may top. Stringer's Manager is concerned that Stringer will take the best money offer because he's broke.

Stringer may bounce back from his travails, but there's no guarantee, so he is a massive risk.

My friend hadn't heard about Nick Haynes, but was adament that we're into and likely to get Zac Williams from GWS.

Sounds like The Package might need to go to speak to The Ox.

[Jacks Back]

Get Haynes and Williams.

Surely we go for the taller option - Haynes is 193cm and Williams is 185cm.

[Con Gorozidis]

Kennedy, Smith & Haynes for #7 & #8 + Lonie.

Kennedy, Williams and Haynes for #7 & #8 + Lonie.

[CQ SAINT]

Get Haynes and Williams.

Surely we go for the taller option - Haynes is 193cm and Williams is 185cm.

Real midfield talent in Williams. Labelled a medium defender at the GWS but he is a class footballer who would compliment our inside mids beautifully. Quick, evasive and highly skilled.

[Con Gorozidis]

Get Haynes and Williams.

Surely we go for the taller option - Haynes is 193cm and Williams is 185cm.

Real midfield talent in Williams. Labelled a medium defender at the GWS but he is a class footballer who would compliment our inside mids beautifully. Quick, evasive and highly skilled.

Love Williams but he is from NSW. Cant see him leaving.

[To the top]

So we get rid of Hickey relying on just Longer?

Fair dinkum.

If you have seen the impact of Ruckmen during this Finals series you would have seen why a fit and firing Hickey is a necessity for any improvement in 2018 - and why Longer is a liability.

Your Ruckmen have to contribute around the ground

The reason Longer never takes a mark is that he is not mobile and just can not jump.

[Proph3t of egan]

So we get rid of Hickey relying on just Longer?

Fair dinkum.

If you have seen the impact of Ruckmen during this Finals series you would have seen why a fit and firing Hickey is a necessity for any improvement in 2018 - and why Longer is a liability.

Your Ruckmen have to contribute around the ground

The reason Longer never takes a mark is that he is not mobile and just can not jump.

Last time hickey played, he didn't take a mark

[fugazi]

Marshall?

[CQ SAINT]

Get Haynes and Williams.

Surely we go for the taller option - Haynes is 193cm and Williams is 185cm.

Real midfield talent in Williams. Labelled a medium defender at the GWS but he is a class footballer who would compliment our inside mids beautifully. Quick, evasive and highly skilled.

Love Williams but he is from NSW. Cant see him leaving.

Nerandera! Hardly Western Sydney. Might as well come from Ballarat. Lol.

Get him if possible at all costs and lock him in for 5. But he is top 6 possession winner while I think Haynes was 10th; they would cost us the draft. I like Kennedy too but cant help.feel that we would lose a required player and both top ten picks to stay in the draft at all, unless we have a completely unrated smokey lined up for the 3rd round.

[degruch]

So we get rid of Hickey relying on just Longer?

Fair dinkum.

If you have seen the impact of Ruckmen during this Finals series you would have seen why a fit and firing Hickey is a necessity for any improvement in 2018 - and why Longer is a liability.

Your Ruckmen have to contribute around the ground

The reason Longer never takes a mark is that he is not mobile and just can not jump.

Last time hickey played, he didn't take a mark

In fact, I remember him being outmarked by one of the Don's small forwards, who hardly left the ground. He got rag dolled by Bellchambers, consistently tapped to the oppositions advantage and put in zero effort. The club would have been very disappointed in his efforts last year (with the exception of one game), surely he's only backup until someone else comes along?

[To the top]

Very judgemental on one game - a game where we were exposed for pace and precision

Further, Hickey was coming off missing matches with injury then not playing the preceding VFL match to ensure his availability for the Essendon match, so hardly the ideal preparation

Perhaps you should focus on Longer's performances?

Whilst we fete the likes of Longer and Geary as we see on here St Kilda is going nowhere fast

We need players who can actually contribute to the result of a game - which is where the St Kilda Website appraisal of Steele is correct and gives some encouragement in regards the requirements to actually improve and add to the 1966 Premiership

Hickey, fit and in form is a required player and the best ruck option we have

Bar none

[degruch]

Very judgemental on one game - a game where we were exposed for pace and precision

Further, Hickey was coming off missing matches with injury then not playing the preceding VFL match to ensure his availability for the Essendon match, so hardly the ideal preparation

I'm judging him on an entire season, but that game was outstandingly poor...I'm struggling to think of a worse game by any of our players in recent times.

How long was Bellchambers out for...a year + injury?

[takeaway]

Very judgemental on one game - a game where we were exposed for pace and precision

Further, Hickey was coming off missing matches with injury then not playing the preceding VFL match to ensure his availability for the Essendon match, so hardly the ideal preparation

Perhaps you should focus on Longer's performances?

Whilst we fete the likes of Longer and Geary as we see on here St Kilda is going nowhere fast

We need players who can actually contribute to the result of a game - which is where the St Kilda Website appraisal of Steele is correct and gives some encouragement in regards the requirements to actually improve and add to the 1966 Premiership

Hickey, fit and in form is a required player and the best ruck option we have

Bar none

Think the club disagrees with you on that one. Third man up rule has cruelled Hickey. Hope he can change his game to suit, because he is better at the moment than Longer around the ground, but as a ruckman he needs to get the occasional tap down as well.
Longer is improving around the ground, clear N0. 1 ruckman

[Proph3t of egan]

Very judgemental on one game - a game where we were exposed for pace and precision

Further, Hickey was coming off missing matches with injury then not playing the preceding VFL match to ensure his availability for the Essendon match, so hardly the ideal preparation

Perhaps you should focus on Longer's performances?

Whilst we fete the likes of Longer and Geary as we see on here St Kilda is going nowhere fast

We need players who can actually contribute to the result of a game - which is where the St Kilda Website appraisal of Steele is correct and gives some encouragement in regards the requirements to actually improve and add to the 1966 Premiership

Hickey, fit and in form is a required player and the best ruck option we have

Bar none

I don't dislike hickey, but he is neither strong enough to be a ruck, or mobile enough to play anywhere else

[SaintPav]

Very judgemental on one game - a game where we were exposed for pace and precision

Further, Hickey was coming off missing matches with injury then not playing the preceding VFL match to ensure his availability for the Essendon match, so hardly the ideal preparation

Perhaps you should focus on Longer's performances?

Whilst we fete the likes of Longer and Geary as we see on here St Kilda is going nowhere fast

We need players who can actually contribute to the result of a game - which is where the St Kilda Website appraisal of Steele is correct and gives some encouragement in regards the requirements to actually improve and add to the 1966 Premiership

Hickey, fit and in form is a required player and the best ruck option we have

Bar none

Think the club disagrees with you on that one. Third man up rule has cruelled Hickey. Hope he can change his game to suit, because he is better at the moment than Longer around the ground, but as a ruckman he needs to get the occasional tap down as well.
Longer is improving around the ground, clear N0. 1 ruckman

Third man up rule cruelled Hickey based on what? 2 games.

[takeaway]

No, about 6 games was enough

[SaintPav]

Hard to prove.

[To the top]

This 3rd man up reference in regards Hickey is an abject nonsense.

How many clean clearances did Steven and Armitage effect from centre bounces, courtesy of Hickey's excellent palming?

And what was Hickey's follow up work, winning his own clearances?

Plus his around the ground marking?

What we do need from him is to play free from the ailments which have impacted on too many seasons - including 2017.

In 2016, his palming in the ruck was the best St Kilda have enjoyed since Gardiner.

In 2017, our ruck presence saw contested ball - hence the comment on Steele on the St Kilda Website, a comment which could be applied to others.

No doubt the absence of a 2016 Hickey impacted Steven - and, of course, Armitage was absent

Each to their own opinion of course, but I would have a fit Hickey over Longer every time.

Rucking apart from centre bounces has become a merry go round, embracing dance as the rucks engage each other - and the next step by the AFL will be to ensure the contest is for the ball which will assist Hickey.

And throw out the third up rule, which is a nonsense.

If the ball is the object and not engaging your opposite number in the manner currently allowed there is no need for a third man up embargo.

The third man up is only effective if the rucks have their arms around each other, wrestling and engaging which is what we see now absent centre bounces

So the centre square engagement is replicated at every ruck contest.

And why 2 sets of rules for centre square contests and then elsewhere?

[takeaway]

I guess we agree to disagree. Longer far better at the actual ruck contests than Hickey. Anyway, I hope a fit Hickey will not be as good as you say, as there is a fair chance it will be at another club next year.

[sunsaint]

Third man up rule cruelled Hickey based on what? 2 games.

yep the judgment is harsh and we're back to this old argument again
The ONLY thing in Longers favour is Richo's preference for him - thats it.

People are quick to forget/ignore Hickeys past seasons and on 2016 alone set the standard that Longer MUST be judged by -
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... 016&fid2=S
574 vs 656 hitouts hardly indicates that Hickey is cr@p at ruckwork
But the massive indictment on Longer is this little nugget
2720 Metres Gained 355
In todays football where you basically have 8-10 onballers, everyone needs to contribute moving the ball forward

...cue the Longer stat nitpickers

[takeaway]

Longer's better and more effective hitouts enable the mids to gain more metres - which means quicker ball movement, much better than a slow ruckman looping a kick forward. Not shown in stats

Billy is also more aggressive at the contest, clearing a path for the mids. Not shown in stats.

Where do the hitouts go? How effective were the metres gained? You could put stats any way you want - they are only a minor guide. I prefer to watch the game - and Billy's the boy.

Hope Hickey picks up form again though, and stays at the club.

[Proph3t of egan]

Jeez, the way you guys are talking about hickey, he must have kicked like 20 goals last year, and averaged 20 disposals

[Joffa Burns]

Get Haynes and Williams.

Surely we go for the taller option - Haynes is 193cm and Williams is 185cm.

Real midfield talent in Williams. Labelled a medium defender at the GWS but he is a class footballer who would compliment our inside mids beautifully. Quick, evasive and highly skilled.

Agreed, would play wing mid at Saints and flourish.
Lightening quick!

[The Recruit]

Longer's better and more effective hitouts enable the mids to gain more metres - which means quicker ball movement, much better than a slow ruckman looping a kick forward. Not shown in stats

Billy is also more aggressive at the contest, clearing a path for the mids. Not shown in stats.

Where do the hitouts go? How effective were the metres gained? You could put stats any way you want - they are only a minor guide. I prefer to watch the game - and Billy's the boy.

Hope Hickey picks up form again though, and stays at the club.

Not sure what this ha to do with trades...maybe for another thread..
For what it's worth Longer has a competuve edge Hickey doesn't..Longer will be the no.1 ruckman long term at the saints
I would trade Hickey if it got us an elite mid somehow

[To the top]

This site is what it is - and who contributes goodness knows

But there are some who seem to have some credentials - so at this time of the year you browse for information, acknowledging the absence of confirmation by player or Club

So, with Haynes, you take it with a grain of salt pending any confirmation by player or Club

But that is the information you browse for at this time

As for some of the other comment, it is just so rediculous that you would assess the contributors to be primary school age children

As an example, we trade Armitage who is a class and experienced performer for a side which has now lost the experience of Riewoldt and Montagna, we trade Acres and Dunstan, and Mc Cartin because he is a Type1 Diabetic, we trade Gilbert and we leave our ruck resources with the cumbersome liability Longer, who is not capable of taking a mark or getting a possession with back up being Holmes and Marshall

But we fete Geary and Longer and Minchington and Templeton

And of course, Freeman and Carlisle are dud recruits

Well, we need to look at the bench mark sides and assess against their resources plus the improvement they will make heading into 2018

To say we are aiming at a premiership in some future year is a nonsense

You are in the competition every year, as is every other Club

So you assess every year, reference to bench mark and add 20% for the improvement the benchmark sides will improve by

That is the competition

We currently have those players Drafted in the top 20 during the Richardson years, plus Carlisle and Freeman.

And trust some others seeking opportunity with us that was not on elsewhere outperform the expectations of their previous Clubs

Plus the experience of Steven, Armitage and Gilbert who are our core of experience now

Then we have Picks 7 and 8 this year, but that is the future

These are the reasons you look for a story re Haynes - and trust there is substance!