Interesting stats regarding disposals

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parkeysainter
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Interesting stats regarding disposals

Post: # 1696376Post parkeysainter »

Saints had the 4th most posessions and ended up 3rd in disposal efficiency in the league for the home/away season.

Think this shows:
* we DO get enough of the football
* maybe our disposal efficiency is ok despite what we think
* the bad goal kicking (2nd last in comp) really let these stats down and cost us finals (possibly 3-5 games)

We need to get a goal kicking coach. Pay him 500k a year. :lol:


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Re: Interesting stats regarding disposals

Post: # 1696380Post sainters85 »

not surprising considering we dominate quite a few games but but cannot get the ball into the forward line clearly. Our number of disposals could also be a reflection of the number of times we handball the pill (a lot of the times just for the sake of doing so)


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Re: Interesting stats regarding disposals

Post: # 1696381Post chook23 »

sainters85 wrote:not surprising considering we dominate quite a few games but but cannot get the ball into the forward line clearly. Our number of disposals could also be a reflection of the number of times we handball the pill (a lot of the times just for the sake of doing so)
Last sentence appears to be the case.


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Re: Interesting stats regarding disposals

Post: # 1696384Post Con Gorozidis »

parkeysainter wrote:Saints had the 4th most posessions and ended up 3rd in disposal efficiency in the league for the home/away season.

Think this shows:
* we DO get enough of the football
* maybe our disposal efficiency is ok despite what we think
* the bad goal kicking (2nd last in comp) really let these stats down and cost us finals (possibly 3-5 games)

We need to get a goal kicking coach. Pay him 500k a year. :lol:
Kidding yourself.
It shows we play a ring a ring rosie game style where we over possess backwards and sideways and in circles in the back half before kicking wide.
The opposition usually own the corridor and the centre of the game.

We were 11th for inside 50s.

This means for all our disposals we werent getting it inside 50. We were 13th at clearances.

So we couldnt win the ball in tight and then wed play soft circle work in our backline.

Guys like Montagna and Newnes rack up the disposals but many of them are useless.

So we fell apart in the middle of the ground or we went wide and had a clearance on the wing.

Who finished above us in disposals?

Collingwood, Essendon and Melbourne. All s*** sides. Disposals means nothing.


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Re: Interesting stats regarding disposals

Post: # 1696388Post parkeysainter »

Con Gorozidis wrote:
parkeysainter wrote:Saints had the 4th most posessions and ended up 3rd in disposal efficiency in the league for the home/away season.

Think this shows:
* we DO get enough of the football
* maybe our disposal efficiency is ok despite what we think
* the bad goal kicking (2nd last in comp) really let these stats down and cost us finals (possibly 3-5 games)

We need to get a goal kicking coach. Pay him 500k a year. :lol:
Kidding yourself.
It shows we play a ring a ring rosie game style where we over possess backwards and sideways and in circles in the back half before kicking wide.
The opposition usually own the corridor and the centre of the game. We were 11th for inside 50s.

This means for all our disposals we werent getting it inside 50. We were 13th at clearances.
So we couldnt win the ball in tight and then wed play soft circle work in our backline.
Guys like Montagna and Newnes rack up the disposals but many of them are useless.

So we fell apart in the middle of the ground or we went wide and had a clearance on the wing.

Who finished above us in disposals?

Collingwood, Essendon and Melbourne. All s*** sides. Disposals means nothing.

Players like Montagna and Newnes are the worst offenders. Both rack up plenty of disposals. Mostly in circles, sideways or backwards.
What a load of crap. If you don't get the footy at all then you don't give yourself a chance to win any game of footy. You have to get the pill first before anything else. They teach you that at Auskick.


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Re: Interesting stats regarding disposals

Post: # 1696390Post dragit »

Sure thing parkey… the top 8 sides for most disposals are

Melbourne, Collingwood, Essendon, St Kilda, Adelaide, Hawthorn, Gold Coast

So one top 4 side and only one other side that snuck into the 8.


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Re: Interesting stats regarding disposals

Post: # 1696391Post parkeysainter »

Think you both missed the point of the original post.

Highlighting the Saints get enough of the footy and the efficiency is quite good. Our conversion and game plan needs some clear tweaking.


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Re: Interesting stats regarding disposals

Post: # 1696393Post chook23 »

Parkey......


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Re: Interesting stats regarding disposals

Post: # 1696394Post Con Gorozidis »

parkeysainter wrote:Think you both missed the point of the original post.

Highlighting the Saints get enough of the footy and the efficiency is quite good. Our conversion and game plan needs some clear tweaking.
We got the point. Just think the point misses the point.


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Re: Interesting stats regarding disposals

Post: # 1696396Post dragit »

parkeysainter wrote:Think you both missed the point of the original post.

Highlighting the Saints get enough of the footy and the efficiency is quite good. Our conversion and game plan needs some clear tweaking.
But the point is moot as getting a stack of uncontested possessions that also bump up your efficiency do very little to actually help you win games.

Overusing the ball can just give your opposition more time to set-up defensively.

We are poor by foot generally that's why we have players like Savage and Montagna playing in the backline even though they aren't very good defenders.


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Re: Interesting stats regarding disposals

Post: # 1696403Post parkeysainter »

Agree to disagree then.

The ball won't magically float into the forward line on its own or move from one end of the ground to the other. Just glad our blokes are actually getting the footy to begin with and the efficiency is actually ok. Heaven forbid!

As I said. Conversion and game plan does need to improve.


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Re: Interesting stats regarding disposals

Post: # 1696414Post bigcarl »

parkeysainter wrote:Saints had the 4th most posessions and ended up 3rd in disposal efficiency in the league for the home/away season.

Think this shows:
* we DO get enough of the football
* maybe our disposal efficiency is ok despite what we think
* the bad goal kicking (2nd last in comp) really let these stats down and cost us finals (possibly 3-5 games)

We need to get a goal kicking coach. Pay him 500k a year. :lol:
Don't know about 500k, but yes. Those stats are pretty damning. Game after game we had more of the ball and dominated quarters but just couldn't put it on the board.

An improvement in forward efficiency (ie turning opportunity into goals) should see us safely playing finals next season. The club is on to it. Let's hope we see some results.


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Re: Interesting stats regarding disposals

Post: # 1696416Post spert »

As my footy-hating wife said recently after watching a game "when the St Kilda players get the ball, they don't seem to know what to do next- just like the last time I watched them". Pretty much sums it up for me - we have a lot of problems implementing structures and plays, and it really boils down to the coach to wear this.


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Re: Interesting stats regarding disposals

Post: # 1696430Post Con Gorozidis »

parkeysainter wrote:Agree to disagree then.

The ball won't magically float into the forward line on its own or move from one end of the ground to the other. Just glad our blokes are actually getting the footy to begin with and the efficiency is actually ok. Heaven forbid!

As I said. Conversion and game plan does need to improve.
Part of the improved game plan should include less s*** handballs and less backwards and sideways kicks - so less disposals.

Collingwood do the same thing as us. Faff around with it and refuse to attack the corridor - simply begging the opposition to force a turn over.

The real reason we have so many disposals is we are afraid to kick it to a contest - because we know we will probably lose it or we are such poor kicks we cant kick to advantage. Or both.

The game versus Sydney really hammered this home for me.

http://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2017/18/syd-v-stk

We had 402 disposals to their 360 but they absolutely slaughtered us.
So no - tweaking the game plan and kicking straight is not the problem.
They kicked 14.17 to our 9.5 that night.
So your hypothesis is bunkum. High disposals are simply meaningless.

We had 402 disposals and only 37 inside 50s.

They had 42 less disposals but managed 28 more inside 50s!

Just think about that for a minute.


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Re: Interesting stats regarding disposals

Post: # 1696443Post bigcarl »

You can make stats say a lot of things, but there's no hiding from the fact that extremely poor conversion cost us matches and probably a spot in the finals. It's not the total answer, of course, but it is one area - just one - in which improvement will reap benefits.


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Re: Interesting stats regarding disposals

Post: # 1696445Post Con Gorozidis »

bigcarl wrote:You can make stats say a lot of things, but there's no hiding from the fact that extremely poor conversion cost us matches and probably a spot in the finals. It's not the total answer, of course, but it is one area - just one - in which improvement will reap benefits.
Sure.
But this idea that we just need to straighten up our goal kicking and then we will waltz in to the top 4 is ludicrous.
Straight kicking for goal gets us in the 8. Agreed.
Still a big gap to top 4 imo.


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Re: Interesting stats regarding disposals

Post: # 1696447Post Teflon »

spert wrote:As my footy-hating wife said recently after watching a game "when the St Kilda players get the ball, they don't seem to know what to do next- just like the last time I watched them". Pretty much sums it up for me - we have a lot of problems implementing structures and plays, and it really boils down to the coach to wear this.
I say same thing to my wife when she grabs the balls - just think through it I say to her...


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Re: Interesting stats regarding disposals

Post: # 1696450Post saintsRrising »

parkeysainter wrote:Saints had the 4th most posessions and ended up 3rd in disposal efficiency in the league for the home/away season.

Think this shows:
* we DO get enough of the football
* maybe our disposal efficiency is ok despite what we think
* the bad goal kicking (2nd last in comp) really let these stats down and cost us finals (possibly 3-5 games)

We need to get a goal kicking coach. Pay him 500k a year. :lol:
Thinks this actually shows that you need to not just rely on stats, but also what your eyeballs tell you at the game.

Sorry but those stats are pumped up buy all the circle work we do.watch the actual games and you will see that we are often exposed by good teams going fast and direct down the middle. Whereas the Saints pump up their stats with overly going backwards, sideways and around in circles.

ie Stats wise we did ok against the Tigers. We had 3 more disposals and won the clearances 44 to 34. but what did the eyeballs reveal?

They used the ball better. Dunstan would have been BOG if he had of snagged those two goals, and when on the ball used the ball well. So despite his high stats he was not at all damaging. And that therein is the tale of our season. We use the ball poorly, and goalkicking is but part of that story, and is not the story in itself.


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Re: Interesting stats regarding disposals

Post: # 1696457Post Con Gorozidis »

saintsRrising wrote:
Sorry but those stats are pumped up buy all the circle work we do.watch the actual games and you will see that we are often exposed by good teams going fast and direct down the middle. Whereas the Saints pump up their stats with overly going backwards, sideways and around in circles.

ie Stats wise we did ok against the Tigers. We had 3 more disposals and won the clearances 44 to 34.
Yep. Watching us and Collingwood play the high disposal game is so frustrating. Almost unwatchable imo. We basically beg the opposition to take the ball from us. And they usually oblige.

How many times do we say get 10 disposals in a row and then bang - turnover - 3 or 4 disposals to the other side and GOAL.

All the bloody time. All the bloody time!

Reminds me of the kids game pass the parcel watching us play.

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Re: Interesting stats regarding disposals

Post: # 1696495Post freely »

Con Gorozidis wrote:
saintsRrising wrote:
Sorry but those stats are pumped up buy all the circle work we do.watch the actual games and you will see that we are often exposed by good teams going fast and direct down the middle. Whereas the Saints pump up their stats with overly going backwards, sideways and around in circles.

ie Stats wise we did ok against the Tigers. We had 3 more disposals and won the clearances 44 to 34.
Yep. Watching us and Collingwood play the high disposal game is so frustrating. Almost unwatchable imo. We basically beg the opposition to take the ball from us. And they usually oblige.

How many times do we say get 10 disposals in a row and then bang - turnover - 3 or 4 disposals to the other side and GOAL.

All the bloody time. All the bloody time!

Reminds me of the kids game pass the parcel watching us play.

Image
The really frustrating part is when this happens in the forward 50. Compounded by the problem that there are only a handful of players willing to take responsibility for having a shot.


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Re: Interesting stats regarding disposals

Post: # 1696505Post Impatient Sainter »

If any one needs replacing its Aaron Hamill our forward line operation and delivery has been deplorable since he has been forwards coach.


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Re: Interesting stats regarding disposals

Post: # 1696507Post parkeysainter »

Impatient Sainter wrote:If any one needs replacing its Aaron Hamill our forward line operation and delivery has been deplorable since he has been forwards coach.
Don't fear...Richo is courting Con on here for the role. Apparantly its a battle as the Suns are looking for him to fill the head coach role. :lol:

Good conversion, a decent game plan and disposals aren't important apparantly.


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Re: Interesting stats regarding disposals

Post: # 1696512Post Crossy66 »

I tend to think the biggest improvement will come from conversions. Also cant help feel we were lacking a strong marking key forward target. We seem to get pushed wide into the forward fifty and maybe this adds to our inaccuracy. Hopefully Paddy comes on next year and Josh Bruce holds more marks. Add this to Membrey as the third tall and we should do better. I think alot is riding on Paddy realizing his potential.
I think one or two elite mids who can deliver the ball a bit better will make the world of difference. I Dont think we are too far away.


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Re: Interesting stats regarding disposals

Post: # 1696516Post Con Gorozidis »

parkeysainter wrote:
Impatient Sainter wrote:If any one needs replacing its Aaron Hamill our forward line operation and delivery has been deplorable since he has been forwards coach.
Don't fear...Richo is courting Con on here for the role. Apparantly its a battle as the Suns are looking for him to fill the head coach role. :lol:

Good conversion, a decent game plan and disposals aren't important apparantly.
If we are 4th in the AFL for disposals but only 11th for inside 50s what does that tell you?

Better conversion or a gun fwd won't solve the problem when the problem lies further up field.


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Re: Interesting stats regarding disposals

Post: # 1696522Post parkeysainter »

Con Gorozidis wrote:
parkeysainter wrote:
Impatient Sainter wrote:If any one needs replacing its Aaron Hamill our forward line operation and delivery has been deplorable since he has been forwards coach.
Don't fear...Richo is courting Con on here for the role. Apparantly its a battle as the Suns are looking for him to fill the head coach role. :lol:

Good conversion, a decent game plan and disposals aren't important apparantly.
If we are 4th in the AFL for disposals but only 11th for inside 50s what does that tell you?

Better conversion or a gun fwd won't solve the problem when the problem lies further up field.
I agree the Saints stuff around with the ball at times but we DO get enough of the footy and our efficiency isn't that bad. We dominated some qtrs this year but our conversion let us down badly as highlighted in the OP. Getting the footy is a good start pointing. Its clear the game plan needs tweeking.


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