Staging

[poatina]

The Jake Carlile thread is heading this way and I thought it might be worth its own thread.
The MRP has found that the reports involved "open hands to the chest". But Luke Macdonald reeeled back clutching his throat which , according to the FINDINGS, was not affected. So its a clear case of staging . Why no charge or penalty?
The trouble is that staging is not different in sportsmanship terms to faking and acting and these two "skills" are actually taught and practiced. I believe it was Shifty Sheedy at perennial cheaters Essendon who first taught as a drilled skill the dive forward at the first minor contact from behind. Matthew Lloyd was a master of this "skill". Other "skills" include the Selwood Shrug followed by a throat clutch , the backing into a player pretending you are being held, the prop and drop, the cunningly disguised block in marking contests and so on. Now all players at all clubs do it , including our own. We get a bit troubled when someone eggs the cake too much , as Jack Lonie did earllier this year, but generally we seem content to regard it as part of the game.
There is a lot of guff about " building better people " and " good citizens" in football clubs but coaches seem quite happy to let this level of unsporting behaviour not only be uncriticised, but encouraged. These are the same coaches who have been allowed to spoil the game with a roaming defensive horde following the ball, over-handball, the death of the pack mark, of the torp, and of attacking , attractive football. They see no duty except lip service to the game as entertainment or to sportsmanship as an ideal. I wish they were held to account as the pious journalists claim they do , but the reality is that it is a symbiotic relationship with coaches acting with fury if the script according to them is not followed ( witness the storm recently about Brad Hardie, admittedly more a trouble- making barfly than an journalist ). The lack of critical comment or questioning of the coaches is deafening. Sometimes rule changes are suggested or made to overcome stultifying effect the coaches have had . WHen that happens it is accepted unquestioningly that it is now the coaches " job" to get around the rule and devise means to circumvent it . There is no expectation that they might conform to the spirit as well as to the letter of the law and no expectation they should be better than they are in putting the game ahead of their own limited horizons.

[poatina]

The Jake Carlile thread is heading this way and I thought it might be worth its own thread.
The MRP has found that the reports involved "open hands to the chest". But Luke Macdonald reeeled back clutching his throat which , according to the FINDINGS, was not affected. So its a clear case of staging . Why no charge or penalty?
The trouble is that staging is not different in sportsmanship terms to faking and acting and these two "skills" are actually taught and practiced. I believe it was Shifty Sheedy at perennial cheaters Essendon who first taught as a drilled skill the dive forward at the first minor contact from behind. Matthew Lloyd was a master of this "skill". Other "skills" include the Selwood Shrug followed by a throat clutch , the backing into a player pretending you are being held, the prop and drop, the cunningly disguised block in marking contests and so on. Now all players at all clubs do it , including our own. We get a bit troubled when someone eggs the cake too much , as Jack Lonie did earllier this year, but generally we seem content to regard it as part of the game.
There is a lot of guff about " building better people " and " good citizens" in football clubs but coaches seem quite happy to let this level of unsporting behaviour not only be uncriticised, but encouraged. These are the same coaches who have been allowed to spoil the game with a roaming defensive horde following the ball, over-handball, the death of the pack mark, of the torp, and of attacking , attractive football. They see no duty except lip service to the game as entertainment or to sportsmanship as an ideal. I wish they were held to account as the pious journalists claim they do , but the reality is that it is a symbiotic relationship with coaches acting with fury if the script according to them is not followed ( witness the storm recently about Brad Hardie, admittedly more a trouble- making barfly than an journalist ). The lack of critical comment or questioning of the coaches is deafening. Sometimes rule changes are suggested or made to overcome stultifying effect the coaches have had . WHen that happens it is accepted unquestioningly that it is now the coaches " job" to get around the rule and devise means to circumvent it . There is no expectation that they might conform to the spirit as well as to the letter of the law and no expectation they should be better than they are in putting the game ahead of their own limited horizons.

[St Chris]

The competitive nature of players will always see them trying to gain any advantage they can over their opponent, including exaggerating any act they think might get them a reward (ie a free kick). Some players are good at it, some not so good. A player who gets a rep as a "stager" is generally no good at it. No different to sledging in cricket, or moving and spinning your racket as your opponent is about to serve in Tennis, or keeping a straight face in Poker. Every competitive pursuit on the planet has "tactics" that can affect an outcome, some are outlawed and others are not.

Coaches aren't responsible for containing or negating this tactic. I'd be disappointed as a fan if my coach was instructing their players to ignore any opportunities to get an advantage. You might be the best people in the world, but if are a professional sportperson and you lose, you have ultimately failed in your task.

The responsibility lies with the umpires to not get sucked in by that exaggeration. A term I've heard a bit in the last few weeks is "feel for the game", it's important the umpires have this feel, it helps them distinguish between real and make believe.

[meher baba]

I think the umpires have been doing better lately at detecting some forms of staging and refusing to play frees for it. It's difficult for umpires because sometimes there are enough grounds for a free kick to be played even when the player has staged.

As someone who has had a fair bit to do with addressing safety risks in the workplace, the thing that has most bothered me for several years now has been players bending their knees in a tackle to manufacture a hit to the head (Joel Selwood of course being the master of this tactic). One day a player is going to get seriously injured as a result of this tactic. The club they play for might then face a criminal charge for failing to provide a safe workplace, on the basis that they either trained him to perform this trick or at least encouraged him to do it.

The AFL should be stronger in saying that this tactic is dangerous and therefore completely unacceptable. And it wouldn't be out of order for players to be fined or suspended for doing it.

[saintbob]

Dance and Davis are 2 of the worst

[MickThomas]

Umps react in the heat of the moment.
Maybe they yell out "report" to try to defuse a potential melee, and they think they saw something untoward.
But their job is to apply the rules of the game, and if they believe there was a reportable offence,
they should report it.
It's fine.
The tribunal can take their time with slow-mo replays, etc, and drop it, fine the guy, or suspend him.
On field, let the umps do their job.

[Sainter_Dad]

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=93868

It's own thread or two!

[MickThomas]

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=93868

It's own thread or two!

Funky Cold Poatina thinks it's so important, he needs to say it twice !!!!!

[dals_da_bomb]

I will merge these threads as both have replies on them.