What do we need to be a top four team in 2018?

[Joffa Burns]

In my opinion and apart from the obvious injuries and luck:

1. Josh Kelly - classy onballer with elite foot skills
2. A free agent with some outside speed and decent foot skills - dont know who or where he is?
3. Paddy has a break out year and becomes a solid (not champion) KPP kicking 40 - 50 goals
4. Consistency from these players, at their best they are elite at worst ordinary. They need to bridge the consistency gap and become very good players.
- Billings, Sinclair, Steele

The saints have built a decent backline with Carslile a gun KPP, Brown a solid citizen, Geary provides the toughness with Webster, White, Newness decent in both lock down and rebound.
Roberton is a very clever player and bordering on elite. Have back up with Rice & NOK and hopefully Goddard.

The forwards have some structure also with Paddy, Bruce, Membery and class with Billings, Sinclair and Gresham.

No doubt we are light for pure talent in the midfield.
Plenty of grunt but lack a little speed and polish, hopefully this can be addressed in the off season.
Longer has played his best footy over the past few weeks and is improvng every aspect of his game. Maybe stonefish was right???????

I would definately trade our first rounder on Kelly as he is already elite and perfectly compliments our current midfield structure.

[stonecold]

What do you mean 'MAYBE' Jaffa?????

[Sainternist]

If we can get all of those four things going, then we'll be in for a pretty good darn good year in 2018.

[stonecold]

If we can get all of those four things going, then we'll be in for a pretty good darn good year in 2018.

If all those things happen Nisty, we play off in theBigDance!!!!!

[Joffa Burns]

What do you mean 'MAYBE' Jaffa?????

I'll concede once he has a couple of consistent years, but his improvement late this season has been a highlight.

Did you notice i still have your pic as my avatar?

[stonecold]

What do you mean 'MAYBE' Jaffa?????

I'll concede once he has a couple of consistent years, but his improvement late this season has been a highlight.

Did you notice i still have your pic as my avatar?

No, all I can see is you!!!!!

PS, I think your selling Billy a bit short earlier in the year as well, but, that comes with the territory!!!!!

[GregPackhamsHeadband]

What was interesting yesterday was our total dominance in the stats. With those sorts of figures, we should have won by 30+ points at least. We snuck home with 20 seconds on the clock. We have lots of potential. We have very promising youngsters. Our skills ATM are simply not up to scratch.

I watched the game from level 3 for the first time in many years. What struck me was how often we had the ball inside 50 and that we kept it there for long periods. We set a record for tackles inside attacking 50. What was also obvious from up in the clouds was that once WC broke out of the congestion, they moved the ball precisely, with speed and scored with relative ease. We worked incredibly hard for very little return, relatively speaking.

At the risk of stating the bleedin' obvious, the first thing we need to improve is our kicking, both in the field and in front of goal. Josh Bruce's clutch miss in the last quarter was a sitter. It could've cost us the game. Our game style is based around manic pressure, intensity and the quick break. It is an exhausting style that is only effective if you hit your targets consistently. Once our pressure drops off, our poor skills compound the problem and hence the numerous blowouts. There's nothing wrong with the game plan, other than it might be a poor fit for our skills set.

Rectify this and we could be top four. Maybe do a Softwick and rejigg or tweak the style. We also need a specialist in the kicking area. Like the WB's handball academy, we might start a "kicking academy". We have a well credentialed coach, who happened to be one of the best kicks in the game in Lindsay Gilbee. I guy who knows how to do and how to teach. We also have a former school teacher on the staff. Surely these two could come up with a program over the summer aimed at improving our kicking.

[Crossy66]

One x full forward( Paddy?)
2 x speedy mids with good footskills ( Freeman? plus one other i.e. Kelly)
1 x key backman (Goddard, Marshall?) - not sure how many seasons Nathan Brown has left in him
Off field:
1 x goal kicking coach / sports Psycho

Basically we have cattle, just some mid field class needed to top us off.

The only worry is we will be contenting when GWS are at the peak of their powers. Its another reason we need to throw the kitchen sink at Kelly etc, to weaken them a little

[saintsRrising]

2. A free agent with some outside speed and decent foot skills - dont know who or where he is?
.

The cupboard is pretty bare. You have Martin, and then this is basically nothing. Plus he is an RFA and not a UFA.


Only decent FA mid is Rocky, and he is more inside.

[dals_da_bomb]

We need to smack the scoreboard in a good way and not a nightmare kind of way.
I think the lack of scoreboard pressure/success really influences our game and the mindset of the players.

Kicking 2.12 isnt going to give you a perk up is it?! We improve this area of our game and i think it will have a flow on effect.

We are going to need some of our 'promising' players to step up. Be brilliant. Be Mr Reliable.
Steven, Mav, Armo, Membrey, Bruce.

We even just 2 of them - Theres room on the saints list to be the next club hero - someone has to do it.

and all the other stuff already mentioned above.

[Crossy66]

2. A free agent with some outside speed and decent foot skills - dont know who or where he is?
.

The cupboard is pretty bare. You have Martin, and then this is basically nothing. Plus he is an RFA and not a UFA.


Only decent FA mid is Rocky, and he is more inside.

Drew Petrie??

[Joffa Burns]

2. A free agent with some outside speed and decent foot skills - dont know who or where he is?
.

The cupboard is pretty bare. You have Martin, and then this is basically nothing. Plus he is an RFA and not a UFA.


Only decent FA mid is Rocky, and he is more inside.

As Cossy66 wrote the second mid with speed maybe Freeman, that would be brilliant.
If we have the cash I'd still go Rocky, he is an A grade midfielder who has 3 or 4 prime seasons left in him with no outlay of pick or trade.
Lions may be happy to let him go if the compensation is suitable, even if we have to add a little bit if sugar to the deal.

How does this look, assuming all worked out well (assuming Joey retires)?

B: Webster Brown Geary
HB: Savage Carslile Roberton
C: Newness Kelly Rockliff
HF: Billings Bruce Sinclair
F: Membrey McCartin Gresham

R: Longer Steven Ross
INT: From.....Steele Acres Freeman Armitage
Gilbert White Dunstan Stevens Weller Long

[Crossy66]

2. A free agent with some outside speed and decent foot skills - dont know who or where he is?
.

The cupboard is pretty bare. You have Martin, and then this is basically nothing. Plus he is an RFA and not a UFA.


Only decent FA mid is Rocky, and he is more inside.

As Cossy66 wrote the second mid with speed maybe Freeman, that would be brilliant.
If we have the cash I'd still go Rocky, he is an A grade midfielder who has 3 or 4 prime seasons left in him with no outlay of pick or trade.
Lions may be happy to let him go if the compensation is suitable, even if we have to add a little bit if sugar to the deal.

How does this look, assuming all worked out well (assuming Joey retires)?

B: Webster Brown Geary
HB: Savage Carslile Roberton
C: Newness Kelly Rockliff
HF: Billings Bruce Sinclair
F: Membrey McCartin Gresham

R: Longer Steven Ross
INT: From.....Steele Acres Freeman Armitage
Gilbert White Dunstan Stevens Weller Long

looks great! Although i hope to see a bit more of Marshall and Battle. Not so sure we'll see Armo anywhere near his best again

[Munga]

I'd like another Carlisle down back

[Yorkeys]

is Kelly the mids' messiah I wonder . Not overly big and in a v. good team. Would want to think about selling the farm for him, imho. Steele, Stevens will improve after a first season of some disruptions as will Dunstan, Ross, Billings, Sinclair, Gresham et al with experience. Certainly need an attacking FB that can kick and a CHF that can catch. Rockliff could be a bargain and as effective as Kelly, maybe. Now if Kelly was as big as Bontempeli........ With Battle, Marshall, Rice and Freeman in the wings would want a pretty good case to bring in a new marque player that might pressure the s/cap and possibly cause dissent with a soccer like wage. We are going ok.

[saintsRrising]

Now if Kelly was as big as Bontempeli........ .

We do not need another big mid. We need an elite mid with elite skills and good run and that is what Kelly offers.

Steele and Ross both 187
Stevens 189
Acres 190

So plenty of midfield height there.

Plus the Bont is pushing forward a lot as the Dogs talls struggle.

[The_President]

I think Jack Steele could be something special.

The guy is an absolute bull & tackling machine.

A few on here & in the media have knocked him for his handball to kick ratio, I couldn't care less. Lots or handballs because he's working at the coalface.

Tough, strong & determined.

People forget that he missed most of the preseason with a foot injury & is still only 21.

Could develop into a very Rory Sloane-ish type player for us.

[Sainternist]

I'd like another Carlisle down back

Well, we have Dylan Roberton who has been absolutely superb down there as well.

[bigcarl]

I honestly think we don't need that much. The list has been expertly developed and is slowly building to critical mass. We're set to explode next season now that Rooey and possibly Joey have called time.

A Josh Kelly would be a nice addition - You can always find a spot for a good player - but we may not need him.

So what do we need?

1) A way to capitalise on long periods of domination. We need to convert this to goals on the board and scoreboard pressure. This would start with kicking goals rather than points more often, but it goes deeper than that. For better forward efficiency we need to find ways of creating space for our bigger forwards to lead into.

2) A good start to 2018. Momentum is underrated in football. Teams that start the season well often finish well.

3) Luck. With injuries and with form. This is a commodity that is often in short supply at St Kilda historically, so we are due for some.

[Johnny Member]

Rather than 'what we need to be a top 4 team', I think we need to reflect on why we aren't a top 4 team this season.

Heavy losses to Adelaide, Bulldogs, Essendon and the Swans.

Narrow loss to Port.

3 quarter efforts against Geelong and West Coast.

Beaten comprehensively by Melbourne in R1.


Reverse the Port loss (for argument's sake) and we're 1 game plus % off the top 4.


We've beaten GWS, Richmond. We've won on the road in Perth and Hobart.


So where I'm going with this, is that something is going right. But something is also going very wrong.

Even if we did pinch one more win say against West Coast in R2 on top of the Port game, we'd be a top 4 team right now. But with an asterix. The asterix being that we've been flogged badly by really good teams 5 times.

Unless that is addressed, it doesn't really matter where you sit on the ladder. Ask Port. They're 5th on the ladder currently, and don't have a hope in hell of winning the flag. For the same reasons I just mentioned.


So what has gone wrong? The nature of our wins, and more importantly of our losses, suggest that maybe talent isn't the issue? We need one or two 'Bont esque' match winners who step up and do a Robbie Gray when the match is on the line, no doubt. But the nature of our losses suggests to me the main issue is either a mental one, a coaching one, or an immaturity one.

Mental meaning that we throw in the towel when the opposition gets on top of us. When they match our pressure we cave in.

Coaching meaning, that we don't have a plan in place to stop the bleeding when our pressure is being matched.

Immaturity meaning that we can't carry out the coaches instructions in terms of our structures and strategy when a team is getting on top of us. Yet.


So will Kelly fix that? Will one player, a young one at that, address any of these issues? IT wouldn't hurt - but I don't think it's a silver bullet.


I'm leaning towards our issue being immaturity. So I think the answer lies with Billings, Acres, White, McCartin, Carlisle, McKenzie, Gresham, Dunstan, Goddard and picks 6 and 7 from this year's draft. I'm starting to think time is the answer more than anything.