Mr. Richardson

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Devilhead
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Re: Mr. Richardson

Post: # 1687754Post Devilhead »

Con Gorozidis wrote:Ok peeps.

So we had 42 more disposals than the Swans.
35 more handballs
7 more frees
1 more tackle

But
28 less I50s
17 less shots on goals

If anyone doesnt think we have a problem with our coaching and game style they need to have a good think about those stats.

We play ring a ring a rosey and then kick to the boundary. It is god damn awful football.
We never displayed any confidence about attacking them direct through the middle of the ground - they did and it was a huge reason why they had more i50s

Our players need to grow some balls and work harder for each other - whether that be shepherding or making space for others to run into - but it seems we sometimes get spooked by the power of the other teams rebound rather than backing in our defence and our own rebound to inflict more damage

That said it probably didn't help that Sinclair was dominating and that they also had Franklin down there but if we want to beat the big boys then we have to play like the big boys and back ourselves in.


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Re: Mr. Richardson

Post: # 1687757Post Sainternist »

Ellaandjohn wrote:Let the guy finish his contract. We have never won a flag sacking a coach and we have sacked plenty
+1

When is Richo contracted till?


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Re: Mr. Richardson

Post: # 1687760Post thejiggingsaint »

Devilhead wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote:Ok peeps.

So we had 42 more disposals than the Swans.
35 more handballs
7 more frees
1 more tackle

But
28 less I50s
17 less shots on goals

If anyone doesnt think we have a problem with our coaching and game style they need to have a good think about those stats.

We play ring a ring a rosey and then kick to the boundary. It is god damn awful football.
We never displayed any confidence about attacking them direct through the middle of the ground - they did and it was a huge reason why they had more i50s

Our players need to grow some balls and work harder for each other - whether that be shepherding or making space for others to run into - but it seems we sometimes get spooked by the power of the other teams rebound rather than backing in our defence and our own rebound to inflict more damage

That said it probably didn't help that Sinclair was dominating and that they also had Franklin down there but if we want to beat the big boys then we have to play like the big boys and back ourselves in.
Well said that man!


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Re: Mr. Richardson

Post: # 1687762Post thejiggingsaint »

Sainternist wrote:
Ellaandjohn wrote:Let the guy finish his contract. We have never won a flag sacking a coach and we have sacked plenty
+1

When is Richo contracted till?
Look, perhaps (?) Richo isn't the coach for us (?) ( in my humble opinion he IS!) just supposing the board don't renew his contract, then just WHO is available (and good enough) to get the job done? Who is out there? Roos? Well logic would suggest that we throw everything at getting him to the club. A proven, premiership coach. Laid the foundations for the current Melbourne resurgence. THAT would be the only choice for senior coach....... unless that is we want to get all "warm and fuzzy" and get Harves as senior coach, with Lenny and Roo as assistants :roll: ..... I have a shrewd idea of just where THAT project would end up :roll:


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Re: Mr. Richardson

Post: # 1687765Post SMS »

Its very simple ADAM KINGSLEY
The guy is ready. Before we lose him to collingwood GET HIM. Sack Hammill with richo. They are shite. Players hate em


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Re: Mr. Richardson

Post: # 1687774Post thejiggingsaint »

SMS wrote:Its very simple ADAM KINGSLEY
The guy is ready. Before we lose him to collingwood GET HIM. Sack Hammill with richo. They are shite. Players hate em
Methinks thou be mischief making sir knight! :roll: :roll: :lol: :lol:


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Re: Mr. Richardson

Post: # 1687777Post Bernard Shakey »

SMS wrote:Its very simple ADAM KINGSLEY
The guy is ready. Before we lose him to collingwood GET HIM. Sack Hammill with richo. They are shite. Players hate em
Players love Richo!

As for Hammill, we need a forward coach and he's been a complete bust this year!


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Re: Mr. Richardson

Post: # 1687796Post thejiggingsaint »

SO! If not Richo, then WHO? Adam Kingsley? Who on the surface appears to be " part of the problem "
Buckley ( once he's had the arse )? REALLY? Are we THAT desperate?
Harves?
Paul Roos? Has the track record.
Rocket Eade?

How about Grant Thomas? He has something to prove, and has unfinished business at the Saints.

I'm putting this reply up here as a way of saying it's not just as simple as " sacking the coach "


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Re: Mr. Richardson

Post: # 1687801Post BackFromUSA »

Legendary wrote:Pretty sure most people in the footy world thought Hardwick would have been sacked last year.

The Tigers will almost certainly finish top 4.

If the Pies hang on to Buckley, they will play finals next year.

Bomber Thompson was on the block at the Cats in his 7th year. Then he took them to 3 consecutive grand finals.

Kenny Hinkley came out of the blocks and then Port did nothing for 2 years. He's finally got them back on track.

Sacking coaches is not the answer. We are still in a development phase. Most people in the industry say positive things about Richo. He has the players on-side.

We are not in a situation where we have a premiership list but Richo is under-performing. Allan Jeans assisted by Alistair Clarkson and Leigh Matthews would not have coached this side to many more wins in 2017. We don't have the cattle because many of them are too young and still developing.

2017 is the first year since 2011 that we won 4 games in a row. Richo has improved the performance of this side every year since he started. We had the softest draw in the AFL in 2016 and we won 12 games. We had a much harder draw this year and we will win a similar number of games. We are still heading in the right direction.

Fortius quo fidelius.
+1


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Re: Mr. Richardson

Post: # 1687804Post SaintPav »

BackFromUSA wrote:
Legendary wrote:Pretty sure most people in the footy world thought Hardwick would have been sacked last year.

The Tigers will almost certainly finish top 4.

If the Pies hang on to Buckley, they will play finals next year.

Bomber Thompson was on the block at the Cats in his 7th year. Then he took them to 3 consecutive grand finals.

Kenny Hinkley came out of the blocks and then Port did nothing for 2 years. He's finally got them back on track.

Sacking coaches is not the answer. We are still in a development phase. Most people in the industry say positive things about Richo. He has the players on-side.

We are not in a situation where we have a premiership list but Richo is under-performing. Allan Jeans assisted by Alistair Clarkson and Leigh Matthews would not have coached this side to many more wins in 2017. We don't have the cattle because many of them are too young and still developing.

2017 is the first year since 2011 that we won 4 games in a row. Richo has improved the performance of this side every year since he started. We had the softest draw in the AFL in 2016 and we won 12 games. We had a much harder draw this year and we will win a similar number of games. We are still heading in the right direction.

Fortius quo fidelius.
+1
Agree. Sacking the coach is for people who lack imagination.

Unless we know of some wizard coach, there's no guarantee that he will be any better.

Still, club probably needs to restructure its coaching department and player development function.


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Re: Mr. Richardson

Post: # 1687809Post saintspremiers »

Let Richo see out his contract. If it's looking bad late in 2018 and we are again struggling to make finals then there needs to be a change.

Next year there should be some focus on this possibility so the wheels are in motion just in case.

What's been deplorable and unacceptable this season is the manner in how we have lost. We get pummelled when challenged whilst most sides keep fighting and don't suffer the same amount of blowouts.

And this young side development side stuff is no longer an excuse sorry. We've topped up with Carlisle and Brown and some experience.


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Re: Mr. Richardson

Post: # 1687810Post saintspremiers »

BackFromUSA wrote:
Legendary wrote:Pretty sure most people in the footy world thought Hardwick would have been sacked last year.

The Tigers will almost certainly finish top 4.

If the Pies hang on to Buckley, they will play finals next year.

Bomber Thompson was on the block at the Cats in his 7th year. Then he took them to 3 consecutive grand finals.

Kenny Hinkley came out of the blocks and then Port did nothing for 2 years. He's finally got them back on track.

Sacking coaches is not the answer. We are still in a development phase. Most people in the industry say positive things about Richo. He has the players on-side.

We are not in a situation where we have a premiership list but Richo is under-performing. Allan Jeans assisted by Alistair Clarkson and Leigh Matthews would not have coached this side to many more wins in 2017. We don't have the cattle because many of them are too young and still developing.

2017 is the first year since 2011 that we won 4 games in a row. Richo has improved the performance of this side every year since he started. We had the softest draw in the AFL in 2016 and we won 12 games. We had a much harder draw this year and we will win a similar number of games. We are still heading in the right direction.

Fortius quo fidelius.
+1
Written and authorised by Richo's family :lol:


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Re: Mr. Richardson

Post: # 1687811Post bigred »

Worst case scenario we would be at least another season off a coach change. And that would only come off the back of another underachieving season.

Just my opinion.

Could have won quite a few more games if we kicked to the league average.


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Re: Mr. Richardson

Post: # 1687814Post samoht »

Is it the coach's fault that we have a thin midfield with few in it that have the ability to take the game on?
If you look past Ross and Steven (who is being successfully tagged out of it in important games, anyway), Steele and Stevens either don't win enough ball or tend to over- handball when the pressure is on.
They rarely take the game on - especially against top teams who apply relentless pressure.
That means we're not getting enough midfield drive, overall - so how can you play through and own the middle of the ground/corridor when you're handballing under pressure - instead of kicking and running straight down the middle (by having the ability to run and sidestep)?

We need running, side-stepping midfielders who hang on to the ball. Another 2 or 3 of them!
We may well have the weakest midfield. The coach may have little to do with it - I mean what does he have to do with it?

Messers Recruiters are the culprits (and the good ones can potentially be the saviours) - not Mr Richardson, not the coach, IMHO!!
Last edited by samoht on Tue 25 Jul 2017 10:41am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Mr. Richardson

Post: # 1687816Post spert »

The coach has got everything to do with it. There's a playing group who basically play according to the game plan and general instruction from the coach and his assistants...not a bunch of players who run around doing what they like. We could single out various players who might not be up to scratch, but the last two games have been team floggings, and indeed most of our other losses have been across the ground team losses with few exceptions.
It is a case of either we have recruited say 22 players who can't follow a team plan or play at this level-in that case the recruiters need to be shown the door, or, the game plan(s) or strategies initiated by the coach have broken down and are so flawed that once we are behind, there is no chance of recovery, hence our losses by big margins. That's when the coach has failed.


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Re: Mr. Richardson

Post: # 1687817Post Johnny Member »

samoht wrote:Is it the coach's fault that we have a thin midfield with few in it that have the ability to take the game on?
If you look past Ross and Steven (who is being successfully tagged out of it in important games), Steele and Stevens either don't win enough ball or tend to over- handball when the pressure is on.
That means we're not getting enough drive - so how can you play through and own the middle of the ground/corridor when you're handballing under pressure - instead of kicking straight down the middle.

We may well have the weakest midfield. The coach may have little to do with it.
And this is still the crux of the debate, isn't it.

Is it the coach? Or the rubbish list?

Chicken or egg?

Realistically, it's almost always a combination of both. However one area is usually the catalyst for s*** performances.

I really worry about where we're at. Really worry (in a football supporting sense of course).


I look at our team each week, and see absolutely nothing that gets me excited as football supporter. Carlisle is the only one that I see as a potential genuine top shelf player. The rest are either mediocre, or just above average.

The way we play, is awful, Even when we win, it's ugly. Even when we were flogging Richmond, we'd had 25 Inside 50s for only 27 points on the scoreboard at one point. That's very concerning, and obviously unsustainable football.

But Richardson had his chest puffed out like we were vindicated. I was more concerned after the Richmond win than some of our losses. If that is how we're trying to play - then we're in trouble. If that's Richardson's blueprint for success - we're stuffed.

If you play a team of witches hats, and have 25 Inside 50s, but have only put 25 points on the board - something is seriously wrong with your offensive game. Guess what happens when you don't get 25 Inside 50s in the first 40 minutes?

I told you all after the GWS win that way we won was worrying. The strategy that we used to get over them, was an easy one for opposition teams to counter. We revealed our hand, and it wasn't overly impressive.


Effort, and f****** 'pressure' is the cornerstone of footy. Without it, you won't win a flag. It's the backbone that supports your ability to execute your strategy. Without it, your strategy is far harder to implement.

But I genuinely fear now, that our strategy is pressure! And that's it!


We're not loaded with talent in the backline, but they're not hopeless. And, our movement out of the backline is pitiful.
We're not loaded with talent in the middle. Our movement through the middle is terrible, and our movement into the forward is just pathetic.
We're not loaded with talent in the forward line either, but they're not hopeless. Our contested marking and conversion is amateur hour stuff.

On top of this, we allow teams to waltz through us in the middle, and across the backline. Which means defensively, our defenders do not stand a chance.


So we have limited talent - and what appears to be zero structure and method for how to play a game of footy.



If you have awesome offence, and no defence - you won't win the flag.
If you have awesome defence, and no offence - you won't win the flag.

But, at least if you have one area covered, it can keep you in the game at times and cover up cracks until you develop the other part part of your game.

We just seem to have neither. We are 11th in Points For - and we're 7th for Points Against! We're not good defensively, and we're terrible offensively.


But again, is it the coach or the players?

The problem is, Richo's reaction post the GWS and Richmond wins. He clearly liked what he saw. That was what he wanted them to do. And I think that that is a flawed strategy.

I'm speculating, as I don't know what his strategy is for a fact. I'm guessing.

But if it is, he needs to change it, He needs to fix it. It's s***.


His constant focus on 'pressure' and being 'strong' and 'solid' and this pipe dream of being the best defensive team in the comp, seems to have come at a cost. The cost is that we neglected our offence, And now that our defense has fallen over, we have nothing to fall back on.


A coach has two jobs -

1) Develop a plan that is capable of winning the flag.
2) And to get the players to carry it out each week.


Richardson in my opinion, is failing badly in number 1). Not sure about 2). If he's good at 2), then you don't sack him. That's a difficult skill and often hard to come by. We just need to change the plan. And hopefully unlike Lyon and some others, he is capable of realising his error and making the necessary changes.


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Re: Mr. Richardson

Post: # 1687818Post samoht »

Of course the coach wants the team to own the middle of the ground - as if we know better!!
Comeon, seriously!

You can't carry out instructions given to you if you can't run and sidestep and hold on to the ball. Ross is our only effective midfielder - who takes on the game and provides drive - against top teams who bring the pressure.
Steven is being tagged out of it.

We have the weakest, thinnest midfield - especially out of the top 10 teams - we have done well despite this.

How is this the coach's fault??

All coach's job is to develop a plan that is capable of winning the flag - but they all don't have the cattle.
To have the players deliver the plan - you also have to have players capable of doing so. We don't.
You can't win a flag with one effective midfielder!

Messers Recruiters need to redeem themselves and lift their game in a big way - the coach can only do so much with what he's been given.


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Re: Mr. Richardson

Post: # 1687819Post freely »

Bernard Shakey wrote:
SMS wrote:
As for Hammill, we need a forward coach and he's been a complete bust this year!
I agree with this. Our back six was looking pretty good there for a while (before Webster got suspended) - very settled and getting it up the ground. Our mids haven't been too shabby (thinking Steven, Ross, Dunstan - and Gresham when he's gone through there). But (a) we break down getting it into the forward 50 - our forwards' running patterns don't seem to complement each other - doesn't appear to be any plan to confuse the opposition. and (b) when the ball IS in our forward 50 we handball and handball and handball until eventually we handball to the other feller who is off into space and up scoring at the other end of the ground! It's not just that our forwards miss their set shots, it's that they don't seem able to snap any goals either - in fact they don't try to. Is it that they've no goal sense? no confidence?

Setting aside blind luck, we've either got to get the ball in quick to a forward on a lead or, if we're taking so long to get the ball in, we need to be able to kick goals in congestion.


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Re: Mr. Richardson

Post: # 1687820Post Johnny Member »

We are 4th for Effective Disposals. We are 5th in the comp for Disposals.

Yet we are 11th for Inside 50s, and 9th for Rebound 50s and 15th for Goal Assists!

So we get our hands on the pill a lot, and we are generally 'effective' with it when we use it. But these 'effective disposals' are not going Inside 50 and they're not rebounding out of 50 either. And they're not setting up goals for our teammates.


What's more concerning is that we rank 5th for Marks Inside 50. And we have Riewoldt, Membrey and Bruce all in the top 20 in the comp for Marks Inside 50. We're the only team, in the comp with 3 guys in the top 20. And the other teams with 2 all have a tall and a small - we have 3 talls.

The only other teams to have two talls in the Marks Inside 50 stat are West Coast and North. And guess how they're both travelling?


Our 'bomb it in' strategy is a joke. It's not working, and hasn't worked since the 90s.


Is this not telling us something?


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Re: Mr. Richardson

Post: # 1687821Post samoht »

No midfield drive = no chance against top teams.
We need to recruit 2 or 3 classy, running, sidestepping midfielders who hold on to the ball and provide drive (not look to handball it like a hot potato).

We can't do it with one (against top teams).
Last edited by samoht on Tue 25 Jul 2017 11:04am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Mr. Richardson

Post: # 1687822Post Johnny Member »

samoht wrote:Of course the coach wants the team to own the middle of the ground - as if we know better!!
Comeon, seriously!

You can't carry out instructions given to you if you can't run and sidestep and hold on to the ball.
Fair enough.

But how do we explain the complete and utter ownership of the middle against Richmond, which resulted in 25 Inside 50s in the first 205 minutes - and we only had 27 points on the board?


Even when we 'own the midfield', our offence is pitiful and inefficient.


I agree that we have a weak list across the ground, but when I've seen us play 'well', I'm not impressed with the efficiency. And that worries me. It worries me that even with great talent, we'd still play an inefficient brand of footy that relies on complete domination in order to generate enough forward entries to kick a winning score.


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Re: Mr. Richardson

Post: # 1687823Post samoht »

Richmond didn't bring the pressure that day.

How did we go against Essendon, the following week?

Does this mean Richo had a great "flag winning" plan one week, then decided to ditch it the next???

A high disposal efficiency and high possession count could mean we're chipping it to each other, or handballing it to each other - and might be disguising the fact that we don't have enough run and drive?
It might be counterintuitive, but this has more to do with the personnel not being capable of carrying a good plan out, than the coach having a "bad" plan.

Our midfield drive is lacking - it's plain to see - and we need to recruit some classy midfielders to help Ross (our only effective midfielder against the top teams) out.
Last edited by samoht on Tue 25 Jul 2017 11:22am, edited 2 times in total.


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Re: Mr. Richardson

Post: # 1687825Post spert »

My mates who were at the Sydney game tell me that they hardly sighted Ross until later in the game, and most of the disposals were just chipping around or little handballs with little effect, hardly even noticed Steven or Steele. Sadly if this is the midfield structure and style of play then ..gawd!


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Re: Mr. Richardson

Post: # 1687826Post samoht »

spert wrote:My mates who were at the Sydney game tell me that they hardly sighted Ross until later in the game, and most of the disposals were just chipping around or little handballs with little effect, hardly even noticed Steven or Steele. Sadly if this is the midfield structure and style of play then ..gawd!
Not structure or style of play, but ability, IMO (lack of player ability to keep the structure and stick to the coach's plan when under intense pressure - the type that Sydney brings).
Our midfield is meh against top teams - and perhaps our (good) coach's nightmare.


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Re: Mr. Richardson

Post: # 1687834Post Sainternist »

bigred wrote:Worst case scenario we would be at least another season off a coach change. And that would only come off the back of another underachieving season.
Richo will find himself very quickly under the pump if the team isn't going leaps and bounds right from the start of next year.


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