The brand new "stay at home forward" theory

This unofficial St Kilda Saints fan forum is for people of all ages to chat Saints Footy and all posts must be respectful.

Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Enrico_Misso
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 11662
Joined: Tue 13 Jun 2006 12:11am
Location: Moorabbin Chapter of The Royal Society of Hagiographers
Has thanked: 315 times
Been thanked: 720 times

The brand new "stay at home forward" theory

Post: # 1686393Post Enrico_Misso »

Following the Dangerfield "injury" when he was propped in the goalsquare as a "stay at home forward" and kicked 5 goals suddenly commentators have "discovered" this as a NEW strategy.
Fans over 40 will remember when there was a "stay at home forward LINE"!
But that was before the press.

How often do we see an interception in the backline with the ball fed out to a half bank flanker who is streaming up towards the wing.
Then with the crowd getting excited he suddenly stops, props and chips backwards or sideways. Many of the crowd jeer "Nooooo, go FORWARDS!".
But wiser heads know that was not possible as when he looked up there was no-one in front of him except an opposition sweeper, so he bought time by chipping for the troops to go forward.
But by the time forwards get forward, at least as many defenders have also got back.
In essence an opportunity for a quick score has been lost.

So why not keep the press down to 17 and keep a man up forward?
Someone quickish who can kick a goal like Gresham or Lonie would be perfect.
Sure they would be manned up, but as that teammate runs up to the wing they should be easily able to give a fake lead and give their opponent the slip and present themselves as an inside 50 target.
Bingo! Scoring opportunity instead of a backward chip.


The rest of Australia can wander mask-free, socialise, eat out, no curfews, no zoning, no police rings of steel, no illogical inconsistent rules. 
They can even WATCH LIVE FOOTY!
Jacks Back
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 6492
Joined: Sat 11 Jun 2011 4:52pm
Location: Here
Has thanked: 1158 times
Been thanked: 442 times

Re: The brand new "stay at home forward" theory

Post: # 1686394Post Jacks Back »

The big forwards like Plugger and dunstall have really died out as their defenders would just run off them and they couldn't chase. Someone a bit quicker like a Dangerfield may be a bit better. The problem is if a player streaming down the ground can't get it far enough back to the waiting player. The way sides set up in defense their is always one or two players that can intercept mark.

I'm not sure what the answer is but I prefer the days of the Plugger's of the comp than the running up and back of BasketballFL that is the game nowadays.


As ex-president Peter Summers said:
“If we are going to be a contender, we may as well plan to win the bloody thing.”


St Kilda - At least we have a Crest!
saintspremiers
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 25303
Joined: Tue 01 Feb 2005 4:25pm
Location: Trump Tower
Has thanked: 142 times
Been thanked: 284 times

Re: The brand new "stay at home forward" theory

Post: # 1686398Post saintspremiers »

Enrico_Misso wrote:Following the Dangerfield "injury" when he was propped in the goalsquare as a "stay at home forward" and kicked 5 goals suddenly commentators have "discovered" this as a NEW strategy.
Fans over 40 will remember when there was a "stay at home forward LINE"!
But that was before the press.

How often do we see an interception in the backline with the ball fed out to a half bank flanker who is streaming up towards the wing.
Then with the crowd getting excited he suddenly stops, props and chips backwards or sideways. Many of the crowd jeer "Nooooo, go FORWARDS!".
But wiser heads know that was not possible as when he looked up there was no-one in front of him except an opposition sweeper, so he bought time by chipping for the troops to go forward.
But by the time forwards get forward, at least as many defenders have also got back.
In essence an opportunity for a quick score has been lost.

So why not keep the press down to 17 and keep a man up forward?
Someone quickish who can kick a goal like Gresham or Lonie would be perfect.
Sure they would be manned up, but as that teammate runs up to the wing they should be easily able to give a fake lead and give their opponent the slip and present themselves as an inside 50 target.
Bingo! Scoring opportunity instead of a backward chip.
Bizarre concept this full forward thIngy.

Imagine if it caught on?

I reckon the AFL would bring in offside to rid the comp of the scourge


i am Melbourne Skies - sometimes Blue Skies, Grey Skies, even Partly Cloudy Skies.
bigcarl
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 18350
Joined: Thu 11 Mar 2004 1:36am
Has thanked: 1706 times
Been thanked: 792 times

Re: The brand new "stay at home forward" theory

Post: # 1686403Post bigcarl »

Jacks Back wrote:The big forwards like Plugger and dunstall have really died out as their defenders would just run off them and they couldn't chase. Someone a bit quicker like a Dangerfield may be a bit better. The problem is if a player streaming down the ground can't get it far enough back to the waiting player. The way sides set up in defense their is always one or two players that can intercept mark.

I'm not sure what the answer is but I prefer the days of the Plugger's of the comp than the running up and back of BasketballFL that is the game nowadays.
It's all to do with the number of interchanges allowed. If you were limited to two on the bench you'd get a much more open and free-flowing game. I wish the league would implement something like this.

They have imposed an interchange cap, but imo haven't gone nearly far enough. Congestion is the result.


Yorkeys
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 4236
Joined: Tue 13 Jun 2017 1:16pm
Has thanked: 1193 times
Been thanked: 1239 times

Re: The brand new "stay at home forward" theory

Post: # 1686417Post Yorkeys »

AFL 360 (excuse reference) noted Hawkins was a stay at home and has a poor scoring record in the context of Geelong's attacking success and that intelligent movement a la PD was the key to causing confusion to defences. And of course PD is not your average player. Our forward line already has plenty of confusion and could usefully lend some to opposition defences - perhaps having a stay home FF would be a start - but who.


supersaints
Club Player
Posts: 1701
Joined: Fri 18 May 2007 11:13am
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: The brand new "stay at home forward" theory

Post: # 1686420Post supersaints »

Jacks Back wrote:The big forwards like Plugger and dunstall have really died out as their defenders would just run off them and they couldn't chase. Someone a bit quicker like a Dangerfield may be a bit better. The problem is if a player streaming down the ground can't get it far enough back to the waiting player. The way sides set up in defense their is always one or two players that can intercept mark.

I'm not sure what the answer is but I prefer the days of the Plugger's of the comp than the running up and back of BasketballFL that is the game nowadays.
I'm a bit confused... someone quicker like Dangerfield?? Wasn't he full forward because he was injured and couldn't run?
Shurely a fit plugger or Dunstall would be able to move as quickly as the injured Dangermouse.

Didn't Dangermouse have two very very inexperienced players on him when in the goalsquare then eventually Hodge? Who has likely never played full back in his life. I don't think any coach would have played a couple of kids on Plugger or Dunstall

The defensive press has moved so far up the ground to keep the pressure in your apponents half and create turnovers in your scoring half...

But it is a rather silly notion it's something new, like every part of AFL it's all been done beforehand new tactics are all very old tactics and are just re- invented. There is a book about it and things like zones were played 100 years ago


And the president said " I did not have sex with that woman"
And our former president said " Football is like golf" 

Go Sainters !!!!!
User avatar
carn_sainter
Club Player
Posts: 1470
Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 4:49pm
Been thanked: 62 times

Re: The brand new "stay at home forward" theory

Post: # 1686427Post carn_sainter »

I've been banging on about playing a forward line all year. We need it. Our big problem when we're crap is that there is nobody to kick the ball to. We cause a turnover and have no options, so we move the ball slow and they get back and set-up against us.

I would love to see someone start out of the goalsquare and basically stay inside F50. Our best one on one forward is Tim Membrey and he is very hard to match up on both aerially and on a lead. Would help us enormously, I reckon.


bigcarl
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 18350
Joined: Thu 11 Mar 2004 1:36am
Has thanked: 1706 times
Been thanked: 792 times

Re: The brand new "stay at home forward" theory

Post: # 1686439Post bigcarl »

carn_sainter wrote:I've been banging on about playing a forward line all year. We need it. Our big problem when we're crap is that there is nobody to kick the ball to. We cause a turnover and have no options, so we move the ball slow and they get back and set-up against us.

I would love to see someone start out of the goalsquare and basically stay inside F50. Our best one on one forward is Tim Membrey and he is very hard to match up on both aerially and on a lead. Would help us enormously, I reckon.
Good call


User avatar
Sainter_Dad
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 5856
Joined: Thu 05 Jun 2008 1:04pm
Has thanked: 213 times
Been thanked: 995 times

Re: The brand new "stay at home forward" theory

Post: # 1686458Post Sainter_Dad »

bigcarl wrote:
carn_sainter wrote:I've been banging on about playing a forward line all year. We need it. Our big problem when we're crap is that there is nobody to kick the ball to. We cause a turnover and have no options, so we move the ball slow and they get back and set-up against us.

I would love to see someone start out of the goalsquare and basically stay inside F50. Our best one on one forward is Tim Membrey and he is very hard to match up on both aerially and on a lead. Would help us enormously, I reckon.
Good call
This was actually bought up in the Paddy thread - I think he would be perfect for this role.

I also think that half of our issues with kicking straight is that we run the bejeezus out of our players, and then expect them to be dead eye dicks in front of goal.


“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”

― Aristophanes

If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
User avatar
saintsRrising
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 30034
Joined: Mon 15 Mar 2004 11:07am
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 700 times
Been thanked: 1212 times

Re: The brand new "stay at home forward" theory

Post: # 1686476Post saintsRrising »

carn_sainter wrote:
I would love to see someone start out of the goalsquare and basically stay inside F50. Our best one on one forward is Tim Membrey and he is very hard to match up on both aerially and on a lead. Would help us enormously, I reckon.


Sorry, but that would be a HUGE waste of Tim's talents.

His biggest plus is that he reads the ball better than anyone and so this is maximised when he is moving amongst a number of players. He also ways seems able to judge where he needs to be better than his team mates and opponents.


Play him as a 1 on 1 stay at home goal square forward and it greatly simplifies the task of his opponent beating him, as they will mainly often only have to watch Tim. It also just reduces him to being a lead up or contested mark forward. In this situation opposition will just play a slightly taller good spoiler on him.


Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
bigcarl
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 18350
Joined: Thu 11 Mar 2004 1:36am
Has thanked: 1706 times
Been thanked: 792 times

Re: The brand new "stay at home forward" theory

Post: # 1686478Post bigcarl »

Membrey has great judgement, which makes him a difficult match up in any marking contest, one on one or otherwise. He's just a natural forward.

The aim with players like this is to get them one out if you can. That maximises their effectiveness. Admittedly, getting a one on one contest these days Is difficult.


User avatar
carn_sainter
Club Player
Posts: 1470
Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 4:49pm
Been thanked: 62 times

Re: The brand new "stay at home forward" theory

Post: # 1686480Post carn_sainter »

saintsRrising wrote:
carn_sainter wrote:
I would love to see someone start out of the goalsquare and basically stay inside F50. Our best one on one forward is Tim Membrey and he is very hard to match up on both aerially and on a lead. Would help us enormously, I reckon.
Sorry, but that would be a HUGE waste of Tim's talents.

His biggest plus is that he reads the ball better than anyone and so this is maximised when he is moving amongst a number of players. He also ways seems able to judge where he needs to be better than his team mates and opponents.

Play him as a 1 on 1 stay at home goal square forward and it greatly simplifies the task of his opponent beating him, as they will mainly often only have to watch Tim. It also just reduces him to being a lead up or contested mark forward. In this situation opposition will just play a slightly taller good spoiler on him.
I know his biggest plus is that he reads the ball better than everyone else and times his leap perfectly. There is no expectation that even half of his contests would be one on one, there would always be a number of defenders pushing back and Saints players too. What would work with Membrey being more or less always within 50m from goal is his ability to lose his man on the lead. Just as good as his reading of the ball in flight is his ability to lead, double lead and get space.

I don't wish him to stay in the goalsquare, just to start there so he has space to work his opponent without ending up on centre wing and also space to work back towards goal where he can win the ball in a dangerous spot.

It his his ability to outsmart and outwork his opponent back to goal that makes him so dangerous. I think it helps us if he is doing that within 50m, both because it would get him the ball but also because his being there gives us a good, fast bailout option off a turnover. He also pressures really well on the ground and would not let the pill out easily.

Structurally, I think we need a deep forward. We are trying to get Gresham to play like Betts and get out the back. He does this well but he is not a target. We need a deep target to capitalise on our ability to cause turnovers and Membrey is the guy who would help us score the most goals in such a role.


User avatar
saintsRrising
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 30034
Joined: Mon 15 Mar 2004 11:07am
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 700 times
Been thanked: 1212 times

Re: The brand new "stay at home forward" theory

Post: # 1686521Post saintsRrising »

carn_sainter wrote:
I don't wish him to stay in the goalsquare, just to start there so he has space to work his opponent without ending up on centre wing and also space to work back towards goal where he can win the ball in a dangerous spot.

.

The thread is all about "The brand new "stay at home forward" theory" ... and not someone that roams up and down.


Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
Post Reply