Trade McCartin

This unofficial St Kilda Saints fan forum is for people of all ages and all posts must be respectful.

Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators

Re: Trade McCartin

Postby older saint » Sun 16 Jul 2017 6:55pm

Football fans are so impatient! This games one of the most physically demanding in the world . NFL ( being a reasonable comparison ) for example don't pick players until they are 21-22 and then they generally take a few years to produce.

Look at bigs drafted early in the last few seasons - Tom Boyd - very average at GWS, in and out of WB side for much of last season then thrown in ruck and had a purple patch in finals. Early this year, granted other issues have arisen, was average as well. jon Patton who is much taller also has suffered injuries too and is only now starting to show why he was pick 1 many moons ago. ( and he has better delivery than our forwards get)

McCartin has been unlucky with injury ( concussions and shoulder) and hasn't yet played 50 games of footy. Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water, he will play his best footy between 25-30, which should coincide when we should be contending. Forget the draft pick No. and have some patience as bogs always take longer to develop, which also applies to our rucks . Roo is gone soon and Bruce, Membrey McCartin is the future , not the now
older saint
Club Player
 
Posts: 1554
Joined: Wed 12 Sep 2007 5:30pm

Re: Trade McCartin

Postby Sainternist » Sun 16 Jul 2017 7:05pm

Trading him would seem like the biggest admission of getting that number 1 pick wrong.

Call me crazy, but I still have confidence Paddy will come good in time. I'm not sure about him being too small. Plus, he'll only bulk up more in time. We just need to get him more AFL experience.
The Saints are looking prettay...prettay...prettay...PRETTY GOOD!
Image
User avatar
Sainternist
Saintsational Legend
 
Posts: 9325
Joined: Thu 11 Mar 2004 12:57am
Location: South of Heaven

Re: Trade McCartin

Postby thejiggingsaint » Sun 16 Jul 2017 7:10pm

Patience is necessary with Paddy. I agree with sainternist!
Dream the impossible dream: Go Saints! (to hell with the rest!) :D
thejiggingsaint
Saintsational Legend
 
Posts: 7951
Joined: Wed 03 Aug 2005 10:01pm

Re: Trade McCartin

Postby Scollop » Sun 16 Jul 2017 7:28pm

We made the call to recruit him and now we HAVE to back him in. If he is fit we have to play him no matter what. Modern medicine is changing the way people manage their diabetes, so that will not be a problem imo. The biggest problem will be not keeping him happy and losing him to the Cats for little in return.
Con Gorozidis wrote:If I have to explain how that works then dont reply because you are too dense to converse with.
Scollop
SS Hall of Fame
 
Posts: 2021
Joined: Sun 11 Sep 2011 2:26pm

Re: Trade McCartin

Postby saynta » Sun 16 Jul 2017 7:36pm

RodKeoghsLoveChild wrote:The guy is two or three concussions away from retirement. Considering he has been concussed six times in three seasons, the forecast looks dim. Potential is well and good, if you can actually get out on the paddock. For mine, his ceiling is pretty low.
He is a poor man's Travis Cloke, without the durability.
Limited athleticism, poor endurance and probably undersized for today's full forward.
You weigh up his diabetes, concussions, and underwhelming performances and surely his market value must be assessed for our obvious long term value. Did I mention the number 1 draft pick?!

The guy hasn't exactly set the world on fire, and I know he is only 21, but each year goes by he loses more value.

Paddy plays with plenty of courage and zero awareness or self preservation. He reminds me of Justin Kositzche in the way he attacks the ball.
The kid doesn't protect himself and has a glass jaw. Everyone talks about giving him time, and constantly comparing him to Tom Hawkins, but Hawkins has always been tough and robust and hasn't been knocked out 6 times in just 21 games. Gradual improvement and consistency is hard, when you are unable to play football.

The odds are definitely stacked against him, and our diminishing returns.



How much further do we invest in such a fledgling commodity?



Rubbish post
saynta
Saintsational Legend
 
Posts: 4625
Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 3:53pm

Re: Trade McCartin

Postby Con Gorozidis » Sun 16 Jul 2017 8:33pm

Scollop wrote:We made the call to recruit him and now we HAVE to back him in. If he is fit we have to play him no matter what. Modern medicine is changing the way people manage their diabetes, so that will not be a problem imo. The biggest problem will be not keeping him happy and losing him to the Cats for little in return.

So he gets treated based on his draft pick number?
User avatar
Con Gorozidis
Saintsational Legend
 
Posts: 22174
Joined: Thu 19 Jun 2008 4:04pm

Re: Trade McCartin

Postby stonecold » Sun 16 Jul 2017 9:25pm

Sainternist wrote:Trading him would seem like the biggest admission of getting that number 1 pick wrong.

Call me crazy, but I still have confidence Paddy will come good in time. I'm not sure about him being too small. Plus, he'll only bulk up more in time. We just need to get him more AFL experience.


Yes, agree, although don't need him to bulk up IMO, just get an AFL Hardened body!!!!!!!
'Cause StoneCold Said So'!!!!!
stonecold
Club Player
 
Posts: 1673
Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2015 3:12pm

Re: Trade McCartin

Postby ralphsmith » Sun 16 Jul 2017 9:29pm

Scollop wrote:We made the call to recruit him and now we HAVE to back him in. If he is fit we have to play him no matter what. Modern medicine is changing the way people manage their diabetes, so that will not be a problem imo. The biggest problem will be not keeping him happy and losing him to the Cats for little in return.


Yeah my opinion on him flip flops.

But, you're right. We picked him, we should f****** back the bloke. Number 1 draft pick means nothing.
Limited endurance he can fix, undersized, he can bulk up.
To me, McCartin looks like Justin Kositchze 2.0. How do we remember Kosi? Concussions and clumsy.
McCartin is going down that road but obviously not too late yet. He's got 2 years to be remembered as something more. His battle i think is purely mental. Give Nick Riewoldts heart to McCartin and there will be a champion. If doesn't start working his ass off on endurance he will never progress. He has enough kicking skill to be a very good forward.

FYI, i thought Petraca looked too top heavy, like the knees and legs would get too much pressure. Sure enough he was out the first season with a knee. May not be the first.
What is dead may never die, but rises again harder and stronger.
Image
User avatar
ralphsmith
SS Hall of Fame
 
Posts: 2375
Joined: Sat 25 Jul 2009 10:36pm

Re: Trade McCartin

Postby Ellaandjohn » Sun 16 Jul 2017 9:37pm

I would trade him as long as we get a top 15 pick


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ellaandjohn
Club Player
 
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon 22 May 2017 11:02pm

Re: Trade McCartin

Postby goods » Sun 16 Jul 2017 10:20pm

anyone that would trade him is a complete idiot. Why would you trade something at its lowest point? The potential upside is far too great. Opportunity cost... reflect on that
goods
Club Player
 
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun 24 May 2009 7:37pm

Re: Trade McCartin

Postby stonecold » Sun 16 Jul 2017 10:36pm

goods wrote:anyone that would trade him is a complete idiot. Why would you trade something at its lowest point? The potential upside is far too great. Opportunity cost... reflect on that


Amen!!!!!!!
'Cause StoneCold Said So'!!!!!
stonecold
Club Player
 
Posts: 1673
Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2015 3:12pm

Re: Trade McCartin

Postby Con Gorozidis » Sun 16 Jul 2017 11:59pm

Would you take pick 1 for him? Of course you would.
There are clear risks in keeping him and clear risks in trading him. Lots of uncertainty and of course some potential.
You would need to consider any offer only IF it was made.
User avatar
Con Gorozidis
Saintsational Legend
 
Posts: 22174
Joined: Thu 19 Jun 2008 4:04pm

Re: Trade McCartin

Postby Con Gorozidis » Mon 17 Jul 2017 12:00am

Ellaandjohn wrote:I would trade him as long as we get a top 15 pick


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Pick 10-20 seems realistic imo.
User avatar
Con Gorozidis
Saintsational Legend
 
Posts: 22174
Joined: Thu 19 Jun 2008 4:04pm

Re: Trade McCartin

Postby skeptic » Mon 17 Jul 2017 12:25am

Con Gorozidis wrote:
Ellaandjohn wrote:I would trade him as long as we get a top 15 pick


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Pick 10-20 seems realistic imo.


Is it though? Don't get me wrong I'm happy to keep him coz I reckon he'll be alright but on what we've seen so far... don't know that he's worth a first rounder ATM
skeptic
Saintsational Legend
 
Posts: 8429
Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 7:10pm

Re: Trade McCartin

Postby Yorkeys » Mon 17 Jul 2017 9:21am

I'd suggest as a primary issue the Saints have an obligation to look after him and to show that it is a club that cares about players - if you do that it adds to attraction of being a Saints player and giving effort. Players and managers notice that stuff. Paddy obviously has talent and is stiff in regard to the overlap with Nick and injuries. Current team really needs a power CHF and a big quick clever mid fielder. Paddy fills one of those needs. Premature and a little mean to be calling for him to be traded - for what? we have plenty of 6 & 7/10 players. Its not like we are going to storm into the finals so be patient, smart and most of all genuinely caring for the lad. Big upside.
Yorkeys
Club Player
 
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue 13 Jun 2017 1:16pm

Re: Trade McCartin

Postby Joffa Burns » Mon 17 Jul 2017 11:29am

Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago...... Warren Buffett


We have planted the tree and put three years into developing it, we must see the journey through.
'Doesn't mean that much to me, to mean that much to you'
User avatar
Joffa Burns
SS Life Member
 
Posts: 3243
Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 5:48pm
Location: I stand 196mm and speak in a high pitch voice like a jockey!

Re: Trade McCartin

Postby stonecold » Mon 17 Jul 2017 11:36am

Joffa Burns wrote:Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago...... Warren Buffett


We have planted the tree and put three years into developing it, we must see the journey through.


Yes, correct Jaffaman!!!!!

Quick Question, where have you been, now we have had a loss, your back again!!!!! ;-)

Stock Market?????
'Cause StoneCold Said So'!!!!!
stonecold
Club Player
 
Posts: 1673
Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2015 3:12pm

Re: Trade McCartin

Postby Joffa Burns » Mon 17 Jul 2017 12:06pm

stonecold wrote:
Joffa Burns wrote:Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago...... Warren Buffett


We have planted the tree and put three years into developing it, we must see the journey through.


Yes, correct Jaffaman!!!!!

Quick Question, where have you been, now we have had a loss, your back again!!!!! ;-)

Stock Market?????


I took leave while you were banned in sympathy LF.
Now you are back, so am I !!!!!!!

Just can't stay away while little Titch is posting up a storm!!!!!!
Those stubby little sausage fingers banging away at the keyboard in anger, brings a tear to my eye!!!!!!!
'Doesn't mean that much to me, to mean that much to you'
User avatar
Joffa Burns
SS Life Member
 
Posts: 3243
Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 5:48pm
Location: I stand 196mm and speak in a high pitch voice like a jockey!

Re: Trade McCartin

Postby stonecold » Mon 17 Jul 2017 12:21pm

Fair enough Jaffa, think you may have had a few too many Mushrooms while you were gone,all the best though mate, not too sure why the short jokes, care to explain the humour at all?????
'Cause StoneCold Said So'!!!!!
stonecold
Club Player
 
Posts: 1673
Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2015 3:12pm

Re: Trade McCartin

Postby David-Lee » Mon 17 Jul 2017 1:07pm

I did not want Paddy at the draft. I still do not think he will make it. BUT ....we have to play him every game he is fit. Every game in the senoirs. Not VFL. He needs 50 games in the forward line and that is seniors not vfl games. If we are not prepared to play him or he cant physically then he has to go.
David-Lee
Club Player
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat 10 Jun 2017 2:01pm

Re: Trade McCartin

Postby Joffa Burns » Mon 17 Jul 2017 5:19pm

David-Lee wrote:I did not want Paddy at the draft. I still do not think he will make it. BUT ....we have to play him every game he is fit. Every game in the senoirs. Not VFL. He needs 50 games in the forward line and that is seniors not vfl games. If we are not prepared to play him or he cant physically then he has to go.


Paddy feeling David-Lee Wrath :oops:
'Doesn't mean that much to me, to mean that much to you'
User avatar
Joffa Burns
SS Life Member
 
Posts: 3243
Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 5:48pm
Location: I stand 196mm and speak in a high pitch voice like a jockey!

Re: Trade McCartin

Postby Proph3t of egan » Mon 17 Jul 2017 5:35pm

Paddy has all the tools to become a great AFL footballer...except for his body. I have no doubt he will become a great player if he can keep up without injuries, but that's a matter of IF. Wish the best for the lad and hope that he gets himself right. Shouldn't be traded unless there is very much I'm our favour
Fortius quo Fidelius means Strength through Loyalty. . . I think
Proph3t of egan
Club Player
 
Posts: 474
Joined: Sun 08 May 2016 8:02pm

Re: Trade McCartin

Postby stonecold » Mon 17 Jul 2017 5:38pm

Proph3t of egan wrote:Paddy has all the tools to become a great AFL footballer...except for his body. I have no doubt he will become a great player if he can keep up without injuries, but that's a matter of IF. Wish the best for the lad and hope that he gets himself right. Shouldn't be traded unless there is very much I'm our favour


+1000, careful with the common sense though mate, too much of that will upset
un-educated!!!!! ;-)
'Cause StoneCold Said So'!!!!!
stonecold
Club Player
 
Posts: 1673
Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2015 3:12pm

Re: Trade McCartin

Postby Con Gorozidis » Mon 17 Jul 2017 8:20pm

Proph3t of egan wrote:Paddy has all the tools to become a great AFL footballer...except for his body.


That is like saying someone has the tools to be a great musician - apart from being tone deaf.
User avatar
Con Gorozidis
Saintsational Legend
 
Posts: 22174
Joined: Thu 19 Jun 2008 4:04pm

Re: Trade McCartin

Postby Scollop » Mon 17 Jul 2017 10:26pm

Con Gorozidis wrote:
Scollop wrote:We made the call to recruit him and now we HAVE to back him in. If he is fit we have to play him no matter what. Modern medicine is changing the way people manage their diabetes, so that will not be a problem imo. The biggest problem will be not keeping him happy and losing him to the Cats for little in return.

So he gets treated based on his draft pick number?


No. He gets treated like other forwards and KPP who are usually given opportunities when clubs deem that they are building teams around these players. I mean <edit by mod>, we recruited him to be our number 1 deep forward didn't we? Did we think he was going to set the AFL alight in his first few years?

Big blokes take longer, but they can't gain confidence when they aren't played. In round 1 this year our coach was not interested in the future team or the development of a team without Rooy. He was interested in the now. Like I said, play the kid and keep playing him, no matter how many games we lose with him in the team. Don't do a Buckley and blame Paddy, the way Nathan Buckley blamed Ben Reid for games that Reid was playing in.
Con Gorozidis wrote:If I have to explain how that works then dont reply because you are too dense to converse with.
Scollop
SS Hall of Fame
 
Posts: 2021
Joined: Sun 11 Sep 2011 2:26pm

PreviousNext

Return to Saintsational Fan Forum (open to all ages)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], L.A. Saint and 11 guests