Trade McCartin

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Trade McCartin

Postby RodKeoghsLoveChild » Sat 15 Jul 2017 9:08pm

The guy is two or three concussions away from retirement. Considering he has been concussed six times in three seasons, the forecast looks dim. Potential is well and good, if you can actually get out on the paddock. For mine, his ceiling is pretty low.
He is a poor man's Travis Cloke, without the durability.
Limited athleticism, poor endurance and probably undersized for today's full forward.
You weigh up his diabetes, concussions, and underwhelming performances and surely his market value must be assessed for our obvious long term value. Did I mention the number 1 draft pick?!

The guy hasn't exactly set the world on fire, and I know he is only 21, but each year goes by he loses more value.

Paddy plays with plenty of courage and zero awareness or self preservation. He reminds me of Justin Kositzche in the way he attacks the ball.
The kid doesn't protect himself and has a glass jaw. Everyone talks about giving him time, and constantly comparing him to Tom Hawkins, but Hawkins has always been tough and robust and hasn't been knocked out 6 times in just 21 games. Gradual improvement and consistency is hard, when you are unable to play football.

The odds are definitely stacked against him, and our diminishing returns.



How much further do we invest in such a fledgling commodity?
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Re: Trade McCartin

Postby dals_da_bomb » Sat 15 Jul 2017 9:19pm

But with all your points in mind - trade him for what? If this is the reality of him and his future who will trade for him?

*im not going to pretend to know the answers myself - and im not much of a 'trade wizz'.
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Re: Trade McCartin

Postby RodKeoghsLoveChild » Sat 15 Jul 2017 9:22pm

My point is trade now, when we still have value. I am sure Geelong would want him with their aging forwards.

We need a ruckman that's for sure.
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Re: Trade McCartin

Postby dals_da_bomb » Sat 15 Jul 2017 9:31pm

But does he have value with so many concussions in his history?
I mean its public knowledge and well talked about - we havent done much with him because we havent been able surely other clubs would consider that.

WHat do you think his trade worth is?

(im also not a doctor but if i was his Mumma i would be begging him to call it a day)
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Re: Trade McCartin

Postby Devilhead » Sat 15 Jul 2017 9:33pm

Why would any side want him if he is only 2or 3 concussions away from retirment as you say

We wont be trading McCartin
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Re: Trade McCartin

Postby RodKeoghsLoveChild » Sat 15 Jul 2017 9:35pm

So we keep him and get nothing in return?

He still has value, but diminishing by the year..

Obviously the premise of my post was lost on some...
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Re: Trade McCartin

Postby Devilhead » Sat 15 Jul 2017 9:54pm

I love these posts about his limited athleticism and his poor endurance yet in quite a few games he has taken 9+ marks - some of those up on the wing and around the ground - how can you explain that?

Kid has something to give and has talent and is defintely worth preservering with - people need to be patient and not write him off so quickly
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Re: Trade McCartin

Postby White Winmar » Sat 15 Jul 2017 10:05pm

At this stage, given all the circumstances, I doubt we'd get much, if anything at all for him. Geelong was known to be keen on him earlier this year, but given what's happened since, I think they'll look elsewhere. Just watching Tom Lynch out there for Adelaide makes me want to cry. Imagine him in our forward line now. Traded for pick 37, after we got him at pick 13. Three wasted years at the saints for just 6 games. RL crushed the kid's confidence completely. Adelaide saw what our recruiters could and what RL couldn't. Thank goodness we got Newnes with that pick 37.

For better or worse, Paddy's ours. Let's see what he does between now and the end of next year when his contract expires. I'm afraid if he has another year like this one, concussion wise, his career will be over anyway. We can't give up on him yet. It's one of those difficult risk/reward situations. If he comes good, all is fine again. If he doesn't, it'll be a complete bust.
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Re: Trade McCartin

Postby sainters85 » Sat 15 Jul 2017 10:24pm

if we can get a 1st rounder for him then go for it. If not, no point. Who knows, could still be something special
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Re: Trade McCartin

Postby Vazelos » Sat 15 Jul 2017 10:35pm

What would we get for him?
Our investment is massive we have to see it through.
Next year is a massive year it will be his 4th year.
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Re: Trade McCartin

Postby Johnny Member » Sat 15 Jul 2017 10:46pm

The good thing is that Petracca is only mediocre at this stage anyway.
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Re: Trade McCartin

Postby BackFromUSA » Sat 15 Jul 2017 11:00pm

Still young. Medical experts say that with diabetes it steadies out in early 20s and from there is easier to manage and thus easier to train to a consistent level. Recovery from concussion is still slower than normal but I am told that the club giving him mass blocks off afterwards is the right way to treat it now. In summary he will get fitter as time goes on, so the key is to teach him to protect his head better and if he does get a concussion, give plenty of time to recover - just like a hamstring, ankle, foot or knee. The kid has real talent. Fingers crossed.
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Re: Trade McCartin

Postby desertsaint » Sat 15 Jul 2017 11:16pm

would get didly squat for him - the payoff isn't worth his potential. signs aren't good, but worth persevering with him.
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Re: Trade McCartin

Postby mr six o'clock » Sat 15 Jul 2017 11:53pm

What number 'get rid of McCartin ' post is this?
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Re: Trade McCartin

Postby skeptic » Sat 15 Jul 2017 11:57pm

I think what's important to note is that usually the right time for discussions like these and decisions like this one are when the chips are down, we've had a bad loss and are desperate.

As we say in healthcare, desperation leads to calm choices
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Re: Trade McCartin

Postby Jacks Back » Sun 16 Jul 2017 12:05am

I'm not saying to trade him but I think other clubs would be interested. They would think they could manage him better (like we thought when we got Freeman).
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Re: Trade McCartin

Postby thejiggingsaint » Sun 16 Jul 2017 1:08am

Sorry,but the OP is just silly.
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Re: Trade McCartin

Postby SydneySainter » Sun 16 Jul 2017 1:13am

desertsaint wrote:would get didly squat for him - the payoff isn't worth his potential. signs aren't good, but worth persevering with him.


My thoughts also. We'd be lucky to get a second rounder given his very well documented struggles with concussion. Like it or not, he'll be staying with us.
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Re: Trade McCartin

Postby saintsRrising » Sun 16 Jul 2017 1:21am

To trade him now would be to guarantee a poor return. So absolutely no point in gifting another club.

Paddy can play. He just needs to be educated better on how to approach the ball. That he believes that he does not need to will change. He is hardly the first young buck to think that he knows it all.


There is much more potential upside in retaining him and in retraining him than in essentially just throwung him away.
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Re: Trade McCartin

Postby Newman » Sun 16 Jul 2017 1:55am

Was watching Rhys Stanley running around for Geelong today. He seemed so injury prone when we had him ... and never set the world on fire. Yep ... could have done with him and McEvoy in ruck on Fri night. That's the way it goes. Maybe we'll score big in 2018 with a fit Freeman.
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Re: Trade McCartin

Postby Con Gorozidis » Sun 16 Jul 2017 6:05am

OP is spot on.
We paid a pick 21 for Freeman ffs.
Surely we can get a top ten 15 pick for McCartin.
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Re: Trade McCartin

Postby SydneySainter » Sun 16 Jul 2017 8:36am

Con Gorozidis wrote:OP is spot on.
We paid a pick 21 for Freeman ffs.
Surely we can get a top ten 15 pick for McCartin.


Doubt it.

Freeman had only been in the system two years with recurring hammy issues. Paddy's been in the system for three with recurring concussion issues. I would think a player's hammy would be perceived as being more manageable than a players head.

Also, Paddy's concussion woes are very well publicised and remain a hot topic. For those who feel his problems are worse than the club are letting on, I'm certain plenty outside the club also have the same feeling. I think there was more to Battle's debut than meets the eye.

Paddy's currently a very risky bet and any club would view as such that I think we would struggle to get a pick in the high 20s, let alone top 15.
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Re: Trade McCartin

Postby ausfatcat » Sun 16 Jul 2017 9:20am

Newman wrote:Was watching Rhys Stanley running around for Geelong today. He seemed so injury prone when we had him ... and never set the world on fire. Yep ... could have done with him and McEvoy in ruck on Fri night. That's the way it goes. Maybe we'll score big in 2018 with a fit Freeman.



Still is and has spent a lot of time in the VFL this year as well
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Paddy McCartin

Postby Sainter_Dad » Sun 16 Jul 2017 10:22am

I started another thread on Paddy - the reason being that I wanted a POSITIVE THREAD - not just to continue posting in a negative thread - we need positivity. But anyway ........

Sainter_Dad wrote:I for one still believe.

McCartin is ours, and while he remains a Sainter - I will believe.

He has shown some moments, he knows how play football, he has health issues that possibly can be overcome.

He needs to be 'managed' this year, and possibly next year, but he is a big bull - and will develop.

I know that at this point it is frustrating, especially when a strong successful full forward would straighten us up and stop the 'bomb to the square' shite, BUT this is NOT our year. The sooner we accept that and take the losses like Friday night, and learn from them, and the wins like GWS and Richmond as bonuses the better off we will be.

You cannot trade McCartin out and get like for like in terms of what he has cost, so we must try and develop him into something that we can use - maybe he wont be out Full Forward - maybe he will develop into a link player - his field kicking is pretty good. Maybe that way he does not crash packs head first.

Who knows what he will become - but I have faith. Faith that has been borne out by recent experiences such as Steven 'the dud', Ross 'let's throw him in as a set of steak knives' etc.

When he plays - he is taking the #1 defender, which frees up Bruce etc - we have a multi prong attack, so if one does not fire, we can (but do not atm) use other options.

Recruitment is not perfect, and he may end up as a bust, but unless we get like for like, he is a known quantity, imagine if we trade him for a second rounder, and get an absolute spud in return.

Perseverance in this instance is what is required, and when (if) he becomes a Saints legend, we will reap the rewards, if he becomes a GOP, then at least we know we got the best out of him that we could.

Paddy - it is up to you - Make it so!!!
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Re: Trade McCartin

Postby Impatient Sainter » Sun 16 Jul 2017 1:39pm

He is worth nothing at trade table. I said it when we drafted him that Petracca will kick more goals than Paddy over there career. My prediction is looking good so far...
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