The exact moment we lost last night's game...

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The exact moment we lost last night's game...

Postby skeptic » Sat 15 Jul 2017 6:40pm

Was in the second quarter... just after Lonie scored our first, Steele ran in to an easy shot and sprayed it from about 35m out.

A few minutes later the ball was up the other end and some bomber marked and goaled, making the margin 3 goals instead of one.

The thing with this current St. Kilda team is that they need scoreboard pressure to ensure that their opponents don't get too confident and start playing off them, kicking long, taking risks and running with numbers.

When that happens... our mindset changes... we lose the ability to back ourselves. Players like Ross, Billings, Steele, Montagna, Newnes, The Steven/s brothers (hahaha) are really talented players that have the ability to pinpoint passes, score goals, beat opponents one on one...
But when they get into this defensive mindset... they stop doing these things. Instead of taking the man on or taking the responsibility to hit up a forward or have a shot, they start passing backwards and forwards, handballing around until someone is put under pressure and just bombs it forward...
And most notably, everybody freaks out when kicking for goal.

I've been like a broken record for the last few weeks...
Our issue is the midfield. For Richo's game to succeed, we need some cream of the crop, clean disposal kings, especially around the HFF that back themselves breaklines, hit up passes and kick goals.

Not only do we need them to do those things, but players that can do this consistently will lift the confidence of everybody else so that they play they aggressive/menacing footy that they can
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Re: The exact moment we lost last night's game...

Postby Devilhead » Sat 15 Jul 2017 7:25pm

Totally agree - a couple of times we missed chances to put scoreboard pressure on them and build momentum only for them to take it down the other end and consolidate their lead - even in the first few minutes of the 3rd quarter we had the ascendancy in the contest and we couldnt capitalise before they kicked a couple themselves

Keeping in mind that we coming off another 6 day break and the emotional build up of the Maddie game we were super flat and missing simple set shots added doubts to our weary mindset- what stood out for me was when we kicked the ball down the line to what looked like a 1 on 1 or 2 on 2 the ball hit the ground and they magically had about another 3 around the ball and they then were able to easily hit up a target - that says to me we didnt work hard enough or couldnt muster the energy to get numbers to the contest and also cover the next kick back towards their forwardline- the further the game went on the more this happened.

For sure it was a physically weak and mentally weak performance - was it the two consecutive 6 day breaks? Was the letdown of emotionally charged Maddie game? Was it due to the big outs we had? Was it due to some debatable selections? Was it a combination of all these things?

The most important that we as supporters need to keep in md that apart from a few old timers the team we had out yesterday was still very young, still very inexperienced and still prone to mental lapses - the further they continue along this journey together the more hardened they will become and more they will gel as a team whoch will lessen the chnaces of losses like this

Yesterdays loss was unacceptable for many reasons but understandable when taking into account where were are in terms of development and whether we like it or not ....... We are still developing
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Re: The exact moment we lost last night's game...

Postby Saint wagga » Sat 15 Jul 2017 7:40pm

For me it was when Newnes missed his set shot! I thought whilst not at our best, if we'd kicked some very getable shots we keep the scoreboard pressure on...the dons did there best to keep us in it until half time!! The newnes miss from a leader was a real dagger imo.
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Re: The exact moment we lost last night's game...

Postby SydneySainter » Sat 15 Jul 2017 8:42pm

I certainly agree that it shanking a few of those sodas in the first half that all but put up the white flag at half time. Had we gone in with the two goal deficit we should have, it may have been a very different second half.

Not saying we would have won, but it may not have ended up being the complete disaster it became.
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Re: The exact moment we lost last night's game...

Postby dals_da_bomb » Sat 15 Jul 2017 9:33pm

When bloody Daniher touched the skies i could hear the hammer hit the final nail.

*insert many swear words
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Re: The exact moment we lost last night's game...

Postby spert » Sat 15 Jul 2017 9:44pm

We lost it in the rooms before we ran on the field. The boys didn't come out with fire in their belly- Richo must have told them to relax and have a nice quiet evening.
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Re: The exact moment we lost last night's game...

Postby skeptic » Sat 15 Jul 2017 9:47pm

spert wrote:We lost it in the rooms before we ran on the field. The boys didn't come out with fire in their belly- Richo must have told them to relax and have a nice quiet evening.


See I don't think so. Even goalless at quarter time we were playing ok. Lonie put us back in it
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Re: The exact moment we lost last night's game...

Postby perfectionist » Sat 15 Jul 2017 10:07pm

13.82 billion years ago
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Re: The exact moment we lost last night's game...

Postby saintsRrising » Sun 16 Jul 2017 1:38am

spert wrote:We lost it in the rooms before we ran on the field. The boys didn't come out with fire in their belly- Richo must have told them to relax and have a nice quiet evening.


This.

75% of our team did not mentally turn up to play.
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Re: The exact moment we lost last night's game...

Postby David-Lee » Sun 16 Jul 2017 9:13pm

The exact moment was when our clueless coach thought last weeks game was great and decided to keep the same team minus obvious exclusions. He failed to rectify a 2nd half capitulation and looked blindly into the sun.
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Re: The exact moment we lost last night's game...

Postby saintspremiers » Sun 16 Jul 2017 9:14pm

saintsRrising wrote:
spert wrote:We lost it in the rooms before we ran on the field. The boys didn't come out with fire in their belly- Richo must have told them to relax and have a nice quiet evening.


This.

75% of our team did not mentally turn up to play.


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Re: The exact moment we lost last night's game...

Postby Otiman » Sun 16 Jul 2017 9:20pm

Hickey's tap goalside in their 50.
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Re: The exact moment we lost last night's game...

Postby stonecold » Sun 16 Jul 2017 9:34pm

Half time last week against Richmond!!!!!!!

Started to believe the publicity and hype!!!!!!!
'Cause StoneCold Said So'!!!!!
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Re: The exact moment we lost last night's game...

Postby saintbob » Sun 16 Jul 2017 9:44pm

saintsRrising wrote:
spert wrote:We lost it in the rooms before we ran on the field. The boys didn't come out with fire in their belly- Richo must have told them to relax and have a nice quiet evening.


This.

75% of our team did not mentally turn up to play.


Agreed, although I think it was the speech Aussie gave when presenting the jumper to Battle.

The vibe just didn't feel right, especially when he questioned Roo and Monty's future
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Re: The exact moment we lost last night's game...

Postby saintbob » Sun 16 Jul 2017 9:45pm

Otiman wrote:Hickey's tap goalside in their 50.



Yep that was absolutely sole destroying
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Re: The exact moment we lost last night's game...

Postby Sainternist » Sun 16 Jul 2017 9:46pm

In the early stages of the third quarter, after Hickey missed that sitter from directly in front and the Injectors got a goal not long after, I knew we were staring down the barrel of defeat.

Too bad our kicking for goal doesn't look to be improving. I would say this is an issue that will be looked at very seriously now.

1. The Saints' scattergun kicking has become a matter of urgency
If St Kilda can't fix its accuracy in front of goal it won't have an impact on the 2017 season. That is how much is at stake for an exciting and much-improved club that could still make a run for the top four if it gets it kicking boots on. The Saints have kicked more behinds than points in six of their past seven games, and were at their worst in Friday night's clash against Essendon. That 61-point loss was not solely down to poor kicking in front of goal. But the team's 7.15 (57) score confirmed that their kicking has not improved with just six rounds to play before finals. Across the season St Kilda has kicked 29 more behinds than goals (the second highest differential of any club). It has dominated periods of games without the reward, and if that trend continues it will battle to beat fellow top-eight teams. - Nathan Schmook
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Re: The exact moment we lost last night's game...

Postby Johnny Member » Sun 16 Jul 2017 11:27pm

FWIW, If we think it only bad goal kicking that is the difference, were in trouble.
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Re: The exact moment we lost last night's game...

Postby skeptic » Mon 17 Jul 2017 12:02am

saintsRrising wrote:
spert wrote:We lost it in the rooms before we ran on the field. The boys didn't come out with fire in their belly- Richo must have told them to relax and have a nice quiet evening.


This.

75% of our team did not mentally turn up to play.


Cop out answer. It could still be turned around... until it can't
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Re: The exact moment we lost last night's game...

Postby saintsRrising » Mon 17 Jul 2017 12:52am

skeptic wrote:
saintsRrising wrote:
spert wrote:We lost it in the rooms before we ran on the field. The boys didn't come out with fire in their belly- Richo must have told them to relax and have a nice quiet evening.


This.

75% of our team did not mentally turn up to play.


Cop out answer. It could still be turned around... until it can't



Well the evidence to date this year is that when an opposition team gets the upper hand against us this year, that Saints are powerless to turn the game around.

Now I don't like that answer. You obviously do not like that answer. But it is the cold had reality of the situation at present. I agree that it should not be that way, but currently it is that way.

As to why? Is it the coaching, is it our players? Is it both? We do not know. One game can be an aberration, but there is a pattern on display that is obvious to all. Richo as head coach has the responsibility to rectify it. I hope like hell that he can. But I do not know if he can , and will he.....
Last edited by saintsRrising on Mon 17 Jul 2017 9:08pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The exact moment we lost last night's game...

Postby St DAC » Mon 17 Jul 2017 7:45pm

saintbob wrote:Yep that was absolutely sole destroying


Maybe that's why we can't kick straight ... :shock:
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Re: The exact moment we lost last night's game...

Postby Otiman » Mon 17 Jul 2017 8:22pm

Johnny Member wrote:FWIW, If we think it only bad goal kicking that is the difference, were in trouble.


It's bad kicking AND bad umpiring, right?
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Re: The exact moment we lost last night's game...

Postby skeptic » Mon 17 Jul 2017 9:18pm

saintsRrising wrote:
skeptic wrote:
saintsRrising wrote:
spert wrote:We lost it in the rooms before we ran on the field. The boys didn't come out with fire in their belly- Richo must have told them to relax and have a nice quiet evening.


This.

75% of our team did not mentally turn up to play.


Cop out answer. It could still be turned around... until it can't



Well the evidence to date this year is that when an opposition team gets the upper hand against us this year, that Saints are powerless to turn the game around.

Now I don't like that answer. You obviously do not like that answer. But it is the cold had reality of the situation at present. I agree that it should not be that way, but currently it is that way.

As to why? Is it the coaching, is it our players? Is it both? We do not know. One game can be an aberration, but there is a pattern on display that is obvious to all. Richo as head coach has the responsibility to rectify it. I hope like hell that he can. But I do not know if he can , and will he.....


The idea that we we find it hard to turn things around when losing isn't ridiculous but it's simply not entirely true.

We were trailing GWS and Freo for extended periods of those games and by more than a couple of goals at a time and turned it around.

It's psychology. And the issue isn't that teams get ahead... the issue is that when we flail, this impotent mentality kicks and the player's style changes to more defensive/protective.

No wonder we haven't got many father son picks
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Re: The exact moment we lost last night's game...

Postby SaintPav » Tue 18 Jul 2017 8:00am

Lost it before the bounce. Essendon controled the ball from the get go and we could not win it back, albeit for a 5-10 min period.

Players had an off night. Write it off and move on.

The rest of the season will pan out in the same manner; a few good wins then a deplorable loss. Touch and go if we make the 8; have a feeling we won't make it.

We're improving, incrementally. Hopefully next season we can iron out the inconsistent efforts.

Plenty to work on which is a good thing.
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Re: The exact moment we lost last night's game...

Postby Johnny Member » Tue 18 Jul 2017 8:50am

Otiman wrote:
Johnny Member wrote:FWIW, If we think it only bad goal kicking that is the difference, were in trouble.


It's bad kicking AND bad umpiring, right?


Umpiring is always bad. Ask any club, and they'll tell you the same. Except for the Dogs of course.


The issue is two-fold:

Firstly, this whole 'pressure' thing.

Why do we have to talk about 'pressure' and being 'strong' and 'solid' all the time? When most good teams just do it? We know good teams have to bring it. But we talk about it like we're special if we know we need to bring it. Like it's some sort of elusive secret that we've unearthed. It's not.

Why don't we just do it every week? Or at least most weeks? Why are we so inconsistent in this regard?


Secondly, our game plan capitulates completely without the midfield domination that comes with the pressure.

Most game plans won't function effectively without pressure - but ours completely and utterly crumbles into a useless mess when we can't dominate. Expecting to dominate every week is naive. Ignorant even. Our most concerning games this season are our wins. Because when we win, we actually see what it is that we're trying to do. And from where I sit, it looks to be a game plan that relies on the opposition allowing us to play a certain way. We have to move the ball really fast otherwise we get stuck and lost and chip it into the back pockets and cross our fingers that something magic will happen. We need the opposition to allow us to fumble and make poor decisions, because we try to move the ball so fat that our own skills can't keep up. If the opposition doesn't allow us this leeway - we're stuffed. It falls apart.
We need to bomb the ball into the hot spot and have our big forwards 'flat hand' to the front of the pack where Billings, Lonie or Gresham are waiting, unopposed, in order to score.

How many times are a decent opposition going to let that happen?? 3? Maybe 4 times a week if we're lucky?

If they don't let us do this - we're stuffed. We have nothing else.


So I see the issue us having a weak game plan, that relies on the opposition having a poor day. Our game plan doesn't just require us to match the opposition's pressure and intensity - it requires us to dominate them otherwise it just doesn't hold up.


The good news is, that this type of footy will allow us to bully weak teams, and allow us to catch the odd decent team off-guard. But if a decent team matches us in the pressure, they flog us.

We have big problems in my opinion.
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Re: The exact moment we lost last night's game...

Postby freely » Tue 18 Jul 2017 2:34pm

There may be problems - obviously heaps we can improve - but this particular loss in this particular game I put squarely down to maddie's match. Did anyone see the footage of roo they played back on footy class last night? He's not all he used to be but I've never seen him that far off competetive. I don't give us much hope this week v the swines (though hope we smash em) but we'll have a much clearer idea where the problems are afterwards. No point analysing this loss too much - it's just not representative.
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