Contenders Or Pretenders?

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Contenders Or Pretenders?

Postby damienc » Sat 15 Jul 2017 4:06am

Now there's a question and a half.

And I'm not sure it's one I can truthfully answer.

Scintillating one week. Pathetic the next. Seriously WTF?

Our footy team is schizophrenic.

If we were awful all the time that I understand.

I'd be depressed but I wouldn't be confused.

This was the perfect moment to really make a statement:We've arrived, we're serious.

Now I don't know what we are. Contenders or pretenders.

I just wish the players would make up their minds.

Don't give us false hope. It's the worst kind of hope there is.

If you're not interested in winning a premiership don't pretend you are

At least be honest with yourselves and to your supporters.

Besides all this confusion is doing my head in.
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Re: Contenders Or Pretenders?

Postby Sainternist » Sat 15 Jul 2017 5:26am

They're neither. The team hasn't developed enough to be a genuine flag threat. I thought that was pretty clear from over the course of the season with the way we matched up against some of the elite teams e.g. Geelong and Adelaide. Granted, last night was a poor loss, but it was typical of the trend of this season with winning a few here and then losing a few there.

The false hope you refer to is brought on from being sucked in by the likes of the fickle AFL media. They'll be backing a horse one week and be totally off it the next.
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Re: Contenders Or Pretenders?

Postby Con Gorozidis » Sat 15 Jul 2017 5:30am

Agree with Sainternist. We are neither.
I see us as trapped in the middle of no man's land.
We aren't really developing and we aren't contenders.
We are just bog average.
Besides Long and Gresham we don't even have any players under 21 getting a regular game. Player development has completely stalled.

We are treading water in the sea of mediocrity.
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Re: Contenders Or Pretenders?

Postby repta » Sat 15 Jul 2017 8:51am

We are a developing team. Very immature. Richo main job will be to build a base for the players confidence. We can't have them believing the hype. I can't remember a team pumped up so much by the media after a big win. Last night they turned up expecting to win. Same went for the Melbourne game. Expect to win, believe the hype and the bubble will burst.

Very very poor by the saints.

All very well to be enlightened. The mongrel coaches tend too be the one's that win the flags.
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Re: Contenders Or Pretenders?

Postby spert » Sat 15 Jul 2017 9:34am

No doubt that Richo is pretty one-dimensional- if his systems work then we look ok, if the systems fail, we don't just falter a bit, the wheels totally fall off!
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Re: Contenders Or Pretenders?

Postby longtimesaint » Sat 15 Jul 2017 9:43am

It is the nature of this season as we see wildly fluctuating results every week.
How did Adelaide feel when beaten in consecutive weeks by North (17th) by 10 goals and then Melbourne by 40 odd points at home.
Essendon have been up and down losing to Brisbane two weeks ago.
We also lack sufficient depth to be a contender as we were unable to replace Longer and Membrey adequately.
One year will be our year
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Re: Contenders Or Pretenders?

Postby Bruce G McAbee » Sat 15 Jul 2017 9:55am

The disappointing thing is that this time last year, we wouldn't have even thought of Longer because Hickey was having a great season. Hell, we played Holmes ahead of Hickey last year. So Hickey hasn't improved or been able to reproduce his form of last year. Blake Acres hasn't been able to reproduce it either, we were really excited about him at the end of last season.
Our two main midfielders Ross and Stevens can get shut down too easily and our forward line has not produced a constant threat, we don't kick big scores, and even when we have the chance, we miss easy shots.
There have been improvements in guys like Billings, Sinclair and with the exception of last night Ross, who would be heading the best and fairest.
Also, Roo has dropped off from last year and I hope he doesn't go one year too many.
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Re: Contenders Or Pretenders?

Postby samuraisaint » Sat 15 Jul 2017 12:15pm

Bruce G McAbee wrote:The disappointing thing is that this time last year, we wouldn't have even thought of Longer because Hickey was having a great season. Hell, we played Holmes ahead of Hickey last year. So Hickey hasn't improved or been able to reproduce his form of last year. Blake Acres hasn't been able to reproduce it either, we were really excited about him at the end of last season.
Our two main midfielders Ross and Stevens can get shut down too easily and our forward line has not produced a constant threat, we don't kick big scores, and even when we have the chance, we miss easy shots.
There have been improvements in guys like Billings, Sinclair and with the exception of last night Ross, who would be heading the best and fairest.
Also, Roo has dropped off from last year and I hope he doesn't go one year too many.


Agree with all of this except that Hickey wasn't dropped for Holmes, he was injured against Sydney and didn't play the last 2 rounds injured.
We are not ready for finals this year, but it is a promising sign that we were still contending late in the year for finals last year, and we will still be in the top 8 until at least next week this year. This gives supporters and sponsors hope and if we at least win the ones we should for the rest of the year we'll finish about ninth meaning that with a far more difficult fixture we've held ground, which = improvement.
Most worrying for me is our complete lack of ability to execute rudimentary goal kicking - 2 goals in a half of footy against any opposition is really poor, and it is not like we didn't have our chances. This is part of the reason why we get opened up by so many teams. Scoreboard pressure is one of those things which develops the element of doubt into your opponent's collective mindset and stops them from playing with the flair that Essendon did last night.
I don't know how this can be fixed and it doesn't help us that we are playing two sides with very good defensive games interstate in the next two games.
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Re: Contenders Or Pretenders?

Postby Johnny Member » Sat 15 Jul 2017 12:21pm

damienc wrote:Now there's a question and a half.

And I'm not sure it's one I can truthfully answer.




Seriously? It's simple to answer.


We're nowhere near being contenders.
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Re: Contenders Or Pretenders?

Postby The Fireman » Sat 15 Jul 2017 12:25pm

Precontenders.
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Re: Contenders Or Pretenders?

Postby desertsaint » Sat 15 Jul 2017 12:32pm

The Fireman wrote:Precontenders.

perfect!
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Re: Contenders Or Pretenders?

Postby maverick » Sat 15 Jul 2017 1:00pm

The Fireman wrote:Precontenders.

Yep, exactly.
I think we can see why we need Kelly now.
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Re: Contenders Or Pretenders?

Postby saintsRrising » Sat 15 Jul 2017 1:26pm

damienc wrote:
Our footy team is schizophrenic.

.


I was originally thinking along those lines. But post Dons game I have realised that we simply are poor when our opposition plays good pressure football and works hard and quick on the rebound.

GWS was an aberration as due their talent they just tend to always play full on attack and run, without strong defensive pressure. This allowed us to get on a roll.

Simply put we are this year a team of downhill skiers, or flatrack bullies. That is the harsh reality. Against weaker teams, and teams off their game we can look good, even really good. But against a good team playing well, then the repeated pattern this year is that we go to water, lose our skills and team play and get ripped apart.
Last edited by saintsRrising on Sat 15 Jul 2017 6:14pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Contenders Or Pretenders?

Postby stonecold » Sat 15 Jul 2017 1:42pm

Sainternist wrote:They're neither. The team hasn't developed enough to be a genuine flag threat. I thought that was pretty clear from over the course of the season with the way we matched up against some of the elite teams e.g. Geelong and Adelaide. Granted, last night was a poor loss, but it was typical of the trend of this season with winning a few here and then losing a few there.

The false hope you refer to is brought on from being sucked in by the likes of the fickle AFL media. They'll be backing a horse one week and be totally off it the next.


As much as it pains me, have to agree with you here!!!!!!!
Last edited by stonecold on Sun 16 Jul 2017 11:24am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Contenders Or Pretenders?

Postby Sainternist » Sat 15 Jul 2017 3:34pm

stonecold wrote:
Sainternist wrote:They're neither. The team hasn't developed enough to be a genuine flag threat. I thought that was pretty clear from over the course of the season with the way we matched up against some of the elite teams e.g. Geelong and Adelaide. Granted, last night was a poor loss, but it was typical of the trend of this season with winning a few here and then losing a few there.

The false hope you refer to is brought on from being sucked in by the likes of the fickle AFL media. They'll be backing a horse one week and be totally off it the next.


As much as it pains me, have to agree with you here, Numpty Dumpty!!!!!!!


Why are you calling me Numpty Dumpty?

YOU'RE the Numpty Dumpty of the forum, mate.
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Re: Contenders Or Pretenders?

Postby Dave McNamara » Sat 15 Jul 2017 4:15pm

longtimesaint wrote:It is the nature of this season as we see wildly fluctuating results every week.
How did Adelaide feel when beaten in consecutive weeks by North (17th) by 10 goals and then Melbourne by 40 odd points at home.
Essendon have been up and down losing to Brisbane two weeks ago...

Plus one.

Disappointing, but hey, this team is still in the young, and hence inconsistent, developing-side stage.

The thing though, that I suspect some may be overlooking, is that we have shown that our best is well and truly good enough. And, our best will get better too. :idea: And consistency will come.

So get over to the bandwagon thread and hop on. :D

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Re: Contenders Or Pretenders?

Postby freely » Sat 15 Jul 2017 4:17pm

Con Gorozidis wrote:Agree with Sainternist. We are neither.
I see us as trapped in the middle of no man's land.
We aren't really developing and we aren't contenders.
We are just bog average.
Besides Long and Gresham we don't even have any players under 21 getting a regular game. Player development has completely stalled.

We are treading water in the sea of mediocrity.

Are you the same Con who's been going on about how crap our coaches are (and God knows you told us so!) for playing Battle?
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Re: Contenders Or Pretenders?

Postby Teflon » Sat 15 Jul 2017 6:06pm

saintsRrising wrote:
damienc wrote:
Our footy team is schizophrenic.

.


I was originally thinking along those lines. But post Dons game I have realised that we simply are poor when our opposition plays good pressure football and works hard and quick on the rebound.

GWS was an aberration as due their talent they just tend to always play full on attack and run, without strong defensive pressure. This allowed us to get on a roll.

Simply put we are this year a team of downhill skiers, or flatrack bullies. That is the harsh reality. Against weaker teams, and teams off their game we can look good, even really good. But against a good team playing well, then the repeated pattern this year is that we go to water. lose our skills and team play and get ripped apart.


Agree
Into this game who have we really beaten?
I don't rate Richmond, never have and think they'll crumble in finals
North ?? Woo hoo
Gold Coast ????
Flat injured Freo ??

When we win game against Sydney, Cats etc when we win games we are EXPECTED to win then take note - otherwise we are pretenders.
I see dumb people...
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Re: Contenders Or Pretenders?

Postby mr six o'clock » Sat 15 Jul 2017 11:57pm

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Re: Contenders Or Pretenders?

Postby Con Gorozidis » Sun 16 Jul 2017 6:17am

freely wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote:Agree with Sainternist. We are neither.
I see us as trapped in the middle of no man's land.
We aren't really developing and we aren't contenders.
We are just bog average.
Besides Long and Gresham we don't even have any players under 21 getting a regular game. Player development has completely stalled.

We are treading water in the sea of mediocrity.

Are you the same Con who's been going on about how crap our coaches are (and God knows you told us so!) for playing Battle?

Just proves my point. Player development is so poor we desperately and prematurely throw a school kid in there.
Absurd.
What the hell is happening with:
White
Rice
Pierce
Wright
Dunstan
NOK
Joyce
Coughlan
Freeman
Connellan
Etc

All stalled.
Some of these guys should be ready. Instead we desperately throw a school kid in.
Rabble.
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Re: Contenders Or Pretenders?

Postby SydneySainter » Sun 16 Jul 2017 8:41am

Con Gorozidis wrote:
freely wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote:Agree with Sainternist. We are neither.
I see us as trapped in the middle of no man's land.
We aren't really developing and we aren't contenders.
We are just bog average.
Besides Long and Gresham we don't even have any players under 21 getting a regular game. Player development has completely stalled.

We are treading water in the sea of mediocrity.

Are you the same Con who's been going on about how crap our coaches are (and God knows you told us so!) for playing Battle?

Just proves my point. Player development is so poor we desperately and prematurely throw a school kid in there.
Absurd.
What the hell is happening with:
White
Rice
Pierce
Wright
Dunstan
NOK
Joyce
Coughlan
Freeman
Connellan
Etc

All stalled.
Some of these guys should be ready. Instead we desperately throw a school kid in.
Rabble.


I can't help but think that Battle's debut was also about suring up our insurance policy should Paddy's situation worsen.
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Re: Contenders Or Pretenders?

Postby SaintPav » Sun 16 Jul 2017 9:16am

None of those could replace Membrey.
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Re: Contenders Or Pretenders?

Postby Con Gorozidis » Sun 16 Jul 2017 10:16am

I guess the question is what are we trying to achieve this season?
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Re: Contenders Or Pretenders?

Postby Con Gorozidis » Sun 16 Jul 2017 10:29am

SaintPav wrote:None of those could replace Membrey.

Acres or Marshall.

Are you saying Battle replaced Membrey? Battle clearly not ready to replace Membrey.

Also Marshall is 21. Rather get him in there.
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Re: Contenders Or Pretenders?

Postby ROLS-LEE » Sun 16 Jul 2017 11:47am

Con Gorozidis wrote:I guess the question is what are we trying to achieve this season?


Exactly. Is our goal to win more games than last year? Play finals? Win a final? Win the whole thing?

Our selection last week was somewhat questionable at best
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