Hickey

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Re: Hickey

Postby stonecold » Sat 15 Jul 2017 10:25am

Lucky for Tom Mal Blight is not still coaching, we could have had another Pitman call!!!!!!!
'Cause StoneCold Said So'!!!!!
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Re: Hickey

Postby takeaway » Sat 15 Jul 2017 11:16am

lewdogs wrote:Feel a bit sorry for Hick after tonight. He was clearly very nervous and lacking confidence. Didn't help him that the midfield didn't show up. He had some bad moments but he was actually far from our worse tonight, and in the period where we almost looked like we might get back in it in the last quarter he actually started to play quite well.

Having said that, Billy is about the Flemington straight ahead right now in the ruck race.


Agree. I have always preferred Longer over Hickey, and yes Hickey had a stinker, along with a few others.
However it is always difficult coming in to a pressure game having been absent for 12 weeks, not high on confidence, with the mids having developed a synergy with Billy, and everything having to change due to Hickey being less capable in knockouts, but normally better around the ground. Like a few others he was nervous and hesitant, dropped a few marks, as did most of the team.

If Longer does not come up, I would still prefer Hickey over Holmes, he will improve, and the mids should work with him during the week and work out strategies.
Probably won't happen though, the third man up rule does not suit him.
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Re: Hickey

Postby oh when the » Sat 15 Jul 2017 11:29am

That tap towards their goal just before half time
Was non thinking football.
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Re: Hickey

Postby saint-stu » Sat 15 Jul 2017 11:46am

Looks like the age of Tom is coming to a close. Tom Curran, Tom Ledger, Tom Lynch, Tom Simpkin, Tommy Walsh and Tom Lee. Tom Hickey was the last and can't seem to keep his spot.

What we need is a ruckman named Jack ;).
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Re: Hickey

Postby CURLY » Sat 15 Jul 2017 11:47am

You can drop marks miss goals or struggle to get the ball but there is no excuse for his lack of physical pressure in the ruck.
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Re: Hickey

Postby Moods » Sat 15 Jul 2017 12:03pm

The OtherThommo wrote:
Moods wrote:
stonecold wrote:Fair enough Fiery, but I've copped a lot of s*** on here for backing Billy!!!!!!!


Mate, Billy has been crap most of the year. Back him all you like. Most of us conceded that he was playing because Hickey couldn't get a kick in the magoos, but that doesn't mean you were right about Longer. The last couple of games Longer played great - especially last week. Before that he was putrid.


I was going to stay away, having just got home, but to suggest Billy's been crap most of the year is nonsense, on stilts.

Billy competes in the middle of the battle, sits top 4 for hit outs and to advantage. The mids trust him to compete, and play accordingly. He's physical, durable, hard and stays involved. Yeah, he mightn't get oodles of possession stats but, by crikey, the blokes around him go better for his presence - and he has presence.

As someone noted earlier, Hick was always going to struggle when the 3rd man up was banned. He was never much chop at centre restarts, but outside those, with help via the 3rd man up, he got off and used his slightly diverse kit bag of tricks.

But, it's a different ball game now, and he has to find another place.

It is very, very hard to argue, after tonight, that Billy is not among a handful of our most important players. Seriously, they all walk a lot taller, and work better together, when Billy leads the way on COMPETING.



OMG! You guys can go back to a game about 10 weeks ago and use that to justify how good Billy has been? He was great last week, and I hope he comes back into the team and continues to be great. I and everyone else are not barracking against him. I don't care who we play in the ruck as long as they perform. If you had to rate Billy's entire year, you would have to say that it's been poor to average. Taking away a couple of games where it's been the exception rather than the norm, he literally does NOTHING around the ground. Takes no marks and has zero impact. In fact there have been games where he has cost us goals because he's fumbled in the goal square or missed an easy handpass. There is more to ruck work than just going for tap outs. It's an indictment on Hickey that whilst Longer had been playing so poorly that he still couldn't force his way into the team

Our rucks would have to be in the bottom 2 in the competition. Now if Billy comes back from injury and plays like he did against the tiges that will change things BUT to say that Longer has been important to us all year is baffling. His season this year compared to Hickey's last year isn't even comparable.
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Re: Hickey

Postby whiskers3614 » Sat 15 Jul 2017 12:08pm

saint-stu wrote:Looks like the age of Tom is coming to a close. Tom Curran, Tom Ledger, Tom Lynch, Tom Simpkin, Tommy Walsh and Tom Lee. Tom Hickey was the last and can't seem to keep his spot.

What we need is a ruckman named Jack ;).


That's a thought.
Not sure Lonie or Billings would have done worse! :mrgreen:
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Re: Hickey

Postby samoht » Sat 15 Jul 2017 12:36pm

Tom Hickey is not robust enough, looked proppy (as did Riewoldt) and played exactly as you'd expect given that he's missed a lot of football (due to injury/frail body) - and I agree that Longer is not providing enough around the ground, but he has played a couple of reasonable games last couple of weeks?

2-3 marks per game and 8-10 possessions per game stats are just not good enough, for a ruckman!

I mean ...
Gary Dempsey averaged 10 marks around the ground as a ruckman over a 10 year stretch (from 1971 to 1980) and close to 20 possessions per game, week in week out
Dean Cox averaged about 20 possessions per game over a 6 year period.

Pierce is not given a go (I know he's injured now).
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Re: Hickey

Postby Myron Gaines » Sat 15 Jul 2017 12:48pm

I can't remember a worse performance from a player since Jay Lever
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Re: Hickey

Postby whiskers3614 » Sat 15 Jul 2017 3:21pm

As if to rub salt into the wound:
-listening to Geelong vs Hawks and both McEvoy and Stanley have done some useful things.
If only we could have grafted some footy smarts and some heart onto Stanley!
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Re: Hickey

Postby longtimesaint » Sat 15 Jul 2017 3:28pm

In retrospect the McEvoy trade has been a win for Hawthorn as Dunstan struggles to be in our best team and Goddard looks unlikely to make it.
Meanwhile McEvoy has been very good for the Hawks.
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Re: Hickey

Postby sainters85 » Sat 15 Jul 2017 3:48pm

whiskers3614 wrote:As if to rub salt into the wound:
-listening to Geelong vs Hawks and both McEvoy and Stanley have done some useful things.
If only we could have grafted some footy smarts and some heart onto Stanley!


stanley is a ruckman.. but didnt we try to them him into a forward brcause he looked like roo? lost 2 pretty good rucks for not much
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Re: Hickey

Postby The Fireman » Sat 15 Jul 2017 4:00pm

stonecold wrote:Fair enough, your point and your entitled to it, no problem there, but im happy to stick with the opinions of the players and coaches!!!!!!!


That's good mate , you are now saying they aren't your opinions. :)

My opinion of Longer when he started was high, I liked his aggression but he still struggled a bit, he was getting the odd hitout but not much else ,he wasn't taking grabs around the ground, he dropped off and was replaced by Hickey who was taking grabs, now Hickey has dropped off,now Billy has made a comeback of sorts , he has improved.
So it's been a rollercoaster and at the end of the day all the opinions of him have been varied and valid.
So let's move on and hope Billy is the answer.
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Re: Hickey

Postby Sainternist » Sat 15 Jul 2017 4:18pm

sainters85 wrote:
whiskers3614 wrote:As if to rub salt into the wound:
-listening to Geelong vs Hawks and both McEvoy and Stanley have done some useful things.
If only we could have grafted some footy smarts and some heart onto Stanley!


stanley is a ruckman.. but didnt we try to them him into a forward brcause he looked like roo? lost 2 pretty good rucks for not much


Stanley was as soft as dog poop sandwiches. He had to go. We got a pick 20 thereabouts for him. That was a fantastic trade. We got Savage and a first round pick for McEvoy. We didn't exactly give those two away for peanuts.
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Re: Hickey

Postby The_President » Sat 15 Jul 2017 4:30pm

CURLY wrote:You can drop marks miss goals or struggle to get the ball but there is no excuse for his lack of physical pressure in the ruck.



Why doesn't he jump in the centre bounces?
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Re: Hickey

Postby samuraisaint » Sat 15 Jul 2017 4:39pm

We need to develop both Hickey and Longer and not give up on them so soon. Same with Paddy McCartin. Everybody wants to swing the axe too quickly on these guys. Brisbane supporters told me at our game this year about Longer's shortcomings, but we know now that he can play. Because he's been given a decent run at it. They need development. And that is the job of the coaches. If they can't fulfil their role description then the hard questions need to be asked. But we have still won 9 games and if we do win next week or against Port - against the odds - we may even play finals!
Before throwing him into a full game in the ruck, why wasn't Hickey played in the forward line last night when it was plain to see that he was underdone. Bruce or Gilbo could have gone into the ruck for the rest of the game to try to stem the tide. They have been doing that this season already anyway. Premature talk about the axing of players is how Russell Greene went to Hawthorn, Michael Malthouse went to Richmond and Tom Lynch went to the Crows. The club have to back our boys and train them properly. I don't want to hear anymore of this stuff about meditation or candles or new age philosophies. Time for back to basics. Teach the players how to kick goals. teach them how to handpass to a player in better position, teach them how to play man on man when teams are continually flooding the ball forward and kicking 6 goals in a row to seal games in ten minutes. Don't overcomplicate it - look at how good we were against the Hawks and the Tiggers - and GWS! We can do it.
There has been talk on here about Marshall being elevated and coming in as a ruck option. Great! But last time I checked Sandy have been getting more hidings than the seniors, even losing to the bottom side, so we can assume that nobody at Sandy is exactly belting the door down for selection. I want him to get a game if he's playing well, but let's not put to match pressure on him to come in and be instant game changer.
There have been minor improvements this season, but in the next two games we are going to find out where we are. Port are not world beaters but they are pretty good in Adelaide so that is a challenge. Sydney are due for a let down soon going by the way the season has gone this year, so although I don't think we'll win either of these games, we are due to win at least one of them. If we do lose both of these games the club have to dedicate the final four winnable rounds completely to player development and their exposure to footy at senior level.
Last edited by samuraisaint on Sat 15 Jul 2017 4:48pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hickey

Postby samuraisaint » Sat 15 Jul 2017 4:44pm

stonecold wrote:Lucky for Tom Mal Blight is not still coaching, we could have had another Pitman call!!!!!!!


Yep, I am a Hickey supporter (think Longer and Hickey both add value to the side and want them both to play 200 games for us) and you are spot on here. Blight would be very clear about the expectations of the team. The message which coaches send to their players and supporters needs to be made clear and made simple. He had no time for things like the Crows losing all the time at Princes Park - and I remember him coming out and saying as much in that same presser. Something about 'the individual accepting things which they have no really reason to accept' or something similar. Music to my ears as a St. Kilda supporter sick of getting hidings at the same grounds for decades. That's why we're all hurting as Saints barrackers as Essendon did this to us for years. It would be mouthguards in at training on Monday night too. Lots of match simulation. And if Blight was coaching we would come out against the Swans next Saturday and probably win, with the emphasis on attack and scoring firepower. He wouldn't have made excuses for the players playing at the SCG or any other ground. The other thing he would do is get them doing lots of set shots at goal and plenty of extra running at training. Back to the basics this week on the track I reckon.
I hope AR really gets us up for this one.
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Re: Hickey

Postby stonecold » Sat 15 Jul 2017 5:45pm

Sainternist wrote:
The OtherThommo wrote:
Sainternist wrote:
tony74 wrote:Billy is VERY decent.


Well, he had a decent game last week. Not sure if he's had many decent games other than the Richmond game though.


What, didn't see the GWS game?!?!


That was two months ago. Apart from the GWS and the Richmond games, he wasn't exactly setting the world on fire. He's serviceable. Ideally, he'd be a good second ruckman.


Without being Rude, don't think Ruckmen/Ruckwork is your go!!!!!!!

Think Billy also received coaches votes against the dogs, just saying!!!!!!!
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Re: Hickey

Postby Teflon » Sat 15 Jul 2017 5:59pm

Just can't believe his drop in confidence this guy was unstoppable at stages last year
I see dumb people...
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Re: Hickey

Postby stonecold » Sat 15 Jul 2017 6:15pm

Teflon wrote:Just can't believe his drop in confidence this guy was unstoppable at stages last year


Yeah, it's a different game now though, the game moves quickly and you have to move with it!!!!!!

Physical Presence in stoppages in critical now, Tom just don't bring that, unfortunately for him and our Mid's!!!!!!!
'Cause StoneCold Said So'!!!!!
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Re: Hickey

Postby White Winmar » Sat 15 Jul 2017 6:18pm

Injury, third man up rule, a subsequent loss of confidence. His game against the Swans in The JLT, was excellent and earned him first crack this year. He hasn't lost his ability, which I think is considerable. He needs to work on his strength in the preseason and readjust his approach. That's what we have a ruck coach for, isn't it?
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Re: Hickey

Postby saintsRrising » Sat 15 Jul 2017 6:20pm

Teflon wrote:Just can't believe his drop in confidence this guy was unstoppable at stages last year


Yes he is a shadow of what he was. Confidence looks shot. Dropped at least 3 marks that he would normally have swallowed plus a sitter on goal (no lone ranger there!).

I suspect that he clearly knows that Richo prefers Longer now as his first ruck choice and that he is just marking time.

It must be difficult when you are a No 1 ruck as in today's football that means that if the coach prefers another player that you will not be playing senior football.

Whereas you can be the second or even third/fourth best mid, tall forward, small forward, tall defender, small defender etc and still get picked. But if you are a pure ruck it is No 1 or bust.
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Re: Hickey

Postby supersaints » Mon 17 Jul 2017 9:42am

samuraisaint wrote:
stonecold wrote:Lucky for Tom Mal Blight is not still coaching, we could have had another Pitman call!!!!!!!


Yep, I am a Hickey supporter (think Longer and Hickey both add value to the side and want them both to play 200 games for us) and you are spot on here. Blight would be very clear about the expectations of the team. The message which coaches send to their players and supporters needs to be made clear and made simple. He had no time for things like the Crows losing all the time at Princes Park - and I remember him coming out and saying as much in that same presser. Something about 'the individual accepting things which they have no really reason to accept' or something similar. Music to my ears as a St. Kilda supporter sick of getting hidings at the same grounds for decades. That's why we're all hurting as Saints barrackers as Essendon did this to us for years. It would be mouthguards in at training on Monday night too. Lots of match simulation. And if Blight was coaching we would come out against the Swans next Saturday and probably win, with the emphasis on attack and scoring firepower. He wouldn't have made excuses for the players playing at the SCG or any other ground. The other thing he would do is get them doing lots of set shots at goal and plenty of extra running at training. Back to the basics this week on the track I reckon.
I hope AR really gets us up for this one.


You obviously must have been overseas when Blight coached the Saints...? after a loss like that he would go out and play four rounds of golf for the week.... and we would loose by ten goals while he heads off to Royal Sydney with the opposition ...
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Re: Hickey

Postby stonecold » Mon 17 Jul 2017 10:02am

Was referring to Mal B when he was at the Crows and passionate about coaching, not him when at St.Kilda and mixing coaching with his semi-pro golfing career, but thanks for refreshing our memories!!!!!
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Re: Hickey

Postby magnifisaint » Mon 17 Jul 2017 10:38am

You can see his knee is giving him grief
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