Paddy's manager speaks on his current situation

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Paddy's manager speaks on his current situation

Post: # 1681295Post saintbrat »

Marko and Dal are joined by Scott Lucas to discuss all the news of the day, Paddy McCartin's battles with injury and form and Captain Not-So-Obvious drops in for a chat!

did anyone hear Billy on The Rush our last night- I can't find a simple podcast.


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Re: Paddy's manager speaks on his current situation

Post: # 1681296Post saintbrat »

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2017/06/28/ ... oung-star/
AFL player manager Scott Lucas says he is unconcerned with reports embattled St Kilda forward Paddy McCartin is struggling with demands of football.

Former Geelong star Billy Brownless, whose daughter dates McCartin, said the 21-year-old Saint was “flat” with football after being dropped from the side and suffering another concussion in the VFL last weekend. Lucas, who manages McCartin, took it as a positive his client was battling with his current situation.

“No I’m not (concerned) because those that are frustrated the most are the ones that it often means the most to and have the fiercest desire to be as great as they can be,” he told SEN’s The Run Home.

“Every young player wants it to happen yesterday and believes it should, which is great and it’s why they are in the AFL.”

McCartin is unlikely to play at any level this weekend after being knocked out playing for Casey Scorpions against Coburg last Saturday.

The concussion was the third in 12 months for the No.1 draft pick who missed a total of five matches last season after two separate head knocks.

Lucas moved to allay fears the key forward’s head trauma issues were career threatening.

“The medical people were confident it was just isolated incidents where it was irrelevant what had previously happened,” he said.

“It wasn’t that he was predisposed to receiving knocks and getting concussed.

“The knock he got last week, and the way it happened, would have probably concussed most blokes in the competition."

Asked if McCartin could return in a helmet - as Richmond’s Ben Griffith’s did last season after sustaining a number of concussions – Lucas said it was a possibility.

“It’s always an option but for every expert that says they are beneficial there is one who says they are not,” he said.


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Re: Paddy's manager speaks on his current situation

Post: # 1681299Post WellardSaint »

SEN reported that McCartin played for Casey Scorpions last week.
Who was the bloke who got knocked out for the Zebs then?

SEN is full of idiots


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Re: Paddy's manager speaks on his current situation

Post: # 1681304Post saintbrat »

WellardSaint wrote:SEN reported that McCartin played for Casey Scorpions last week.
Who was the bloke who got knocked out for the Zebs then?

SEN is full of idiots

was Brayshaw knocked out again?- he plays for Casey Demons.

why no spotlight on him- he went 3 in the same draft


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Re: Paddy's manager speaks on his current situation

Post: # 1681305Post WellardSaint »

saintbrat wrote:
WellardSaint wrote:SEN reported that McCartin played for Casey Scorpions last week.
Who was the bloke who got knocked out for the Zebs then?

SEN is full of idiots

was Brayshaw knocked out again?- he plays for Casey Demons.

why no spotlight on him- he went 3 in the same draft
No, their article definitely says "McCartin got knocked out when he played for Casey Scorpions against Coburg last week"
:shock: :shock: :evil:

Idiots
Ox too busy gambling, no time for proof-reading


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Re: Paddy's manager speaks on his current situation

Post: # 1681308Post bigcarl »

Asked if McCartin could return in a helmet - as Richmond’s Ben Griffith’s did last season after sustaining a number of concussions – Lucas said it was a possibility.

“It’s always an option but for every expert that says they are beneficial there is one who says they are not,” he said.
I'm with the experts who say they are beneficial. You don't see many cyclists or motorcyclists without them.
Last edited by bigcarl on Wed 28 Jun 2017 10:55pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Paddy's manager speaks on his current situation

Post: # 1681310Post WellardSaint »

bigcarl wrote:
Asked if McCartin could return in a helmet - as Richmond’s Ben Griffith’s did last season after sustaining a number of concussions – Lucas said it was a possibility.

“It’s always an option but for every expert that says they are beneficial there is one who says they are not,” he said.
I'm the experts who say they are beneficial. You don't see many cyclists or motorcyclists without them.
Cycling and motorbike helmets typically protect against higher speed impact than contact sport.
Cycling helmets are designed to comply with ASA rules, and absorb impact by controlled crushing which slows the G-Forces
as well as protecting from impact on bitumen or other surface.

Footy is different environment.


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Re: Paddy's manager speaks on his current situation

Post: # 1681311Post shrodes »

bigcarl wrote:
Asked if McCartin could return in a helmet - as Richmond’s Ben Griffith’s did last season after sustaining a number of concussions – Lucas said it was a possibility.

“It’s always an option but for every expert that says they are beneficial there is one who says they are not,” he said.
I'm the experts who say they are beneficial. You don't see many cyclists or motorcyclists without them.
There is also a theory with the NFL that the helmets lead to worse injuries because players lead with their heads (consciously or subconsciously) knowing they're wearing protection (which only reduces the impact, without eliminating it).


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Re: Paddy's manager speaks on his current situation

Post: # 1681315Post Jacks Back »

WellardSaint wrote:
bigcarl wrote:
Asked if McCartin could return in a helmet - as Richmond’s Ben Griffith’s did last season after sustaining a number of concussions – Lucas said it was a possibility.

“It’s always an option but for every expert that says they are beneficial there is one who says they are not,” he said.
I'm the experts who say they are beneficial. You don't see many cyclists or motorcyclists without them.
Cycling and motorbike helmets typically protect against higher speed impact than contact sport.
Cycling helmets are designed to comply with ASA rules, and absorb impact by controlled crushing which slows the G-Forces
as well as protecting from impact on bitumen or other surface.

Footy is different environment.
What, the ground isn't a surface or a player's fist or elbow aren't able to impact a player's head?

Why do amateur boxers wear helmets then?


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Re: Paddy's manager speaks on his current situation

Post: # 1681320Post bigcarl »

shrodes wrote:
bigcarl wrote:
Asked if McCartin could return in a helmet - as Richmond’s Ben Griffith’s did last season after sustaining a number of concussions – Lucas said it was a possibility.

“It’s always an option but for every expert that says they are beneficial there is one who says they are not,” he said.
I'm the experts who say they are beneficial. You don't see many cyclists or motorcyclists without them.
There is also a theory with the NFL that the helmets lead to worse injuries because players lead with their heads (consciously or subconsciously) knowing they're wearing protection (which only reduces the impact, without eliminating it).

I've heard that, but the science on it is pretty sketchy. It's like saying people drive faster and take more risks if they are wearing seatbelts.
Last edited by bigcarl on Wed 28 Jun 2017 11:21pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Paddy's manager speaks on his current situation

Post: # 1681321Post bigcarl »

Jacks Back wrote:
WellardSaint wrote:
bigcarl wrote:
Asked if McCartin could return in a helmet - as Richmond’s Ben Griffith’s did last season after sustaining a number of concussions – Lucas said it was a possibility.

“It’s always an option but for every expert that says they are beneficial there is one who says they are not,” he said.
I'm the experts who say they are beneficial. You don't see many cyclists or motorcyclists without them.
Cycling and motorbike helmets typically protect against higher speed impact than contact sport.
Cycling helmets are designed to comply with ASA rules, and absorb impact by controlled crushing which slows the G-Forces
as well as protecting from impact on bitumen or other surface.

Footy is different environment.
What, the ground isn't a surface or a player's fist or elbow aren't able to impact a player's head?

Why do amateur boxers wear helmets then?
Exactly. Whack a helmet on him and get him back on the horse.


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Re: Paddy's manager speaks on his current situation

Post: # 1681326Post The_President »

I think you'll find that Bill was saying that Paddy is flat with the situation & footy at the moment.

Wouldn't you be?

Never said anything about struggling with the demands of footy.


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Re: Paddy's manager speaks on his current situation

Post: # 1681328Post mr six o'clock »

The_President wrote:I think you'll find that Bill was saying that Paddy is flat with the situation & footy at the moment.

Wouldn't you be?

Never said anything about struggling with the demands of footy.
Love billy
But would he really know ?
His best mate was tapping his missus and he had no idea (allegedly )


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Re: Paddy's manager speaks on his current situation

Post: # 1681334Post satchmo »

bigcarl wrote:
shrodes wrote:
bigcarl wrote:
Asked if McCartin could return in a helmet - as Richmond’s Ben Griffith’s did last season after sustaining a number of concussions – Lucas said it was a possibility.

“It’s always an option but for every expert that says they are beneficial there is one who says they are not,” he said.
I'm the experts who say they are beneficial. You don't see many cyclists or motorcyclists without them.
There is also a theory with the NFL that the helmets lead to worse injuries because players lead with their heads (consciously or subconsciously) knowing they're wearing protection (which only reduces the impact, without eliminating it).

I've heard that, but the science on it is pretty sketchy. It's like saying people drive faster and take more risks if they are wearing seatbelts.
It's not really like saying that. But the important point is that concussion is caused by the brain hitting the skull, and a helmet does nothing to stop that.


*Allegedly.

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Re: Paddy's manager speaks on his current situation

Post: # 1681335Post bigcarl »

satchmo wrote:
bigcarl wrote:
shrodes wrote:
bigcarl wrote:
Asked if McCartin could return in a helmet - as Richmond’s Ben Griffith’s did last season after sustaining a number of concussions – Lucas said it was a possibility.

“It’s always an option but for every expert that says they are beneficial there is one who says they are not,” he said.
I'm the experts who say they are beneficial. You don't see many cyclists or motorcyclists without them.
There is also a theory with the NFL that the helmets lead to worse injuries because players lead with their heads (consciously or subconsciously) knowing they're wearing protection (which only reduces the impact, without eliminating it).

I've heard that, but the science on it is pretty sketchy. It's like saying people drive faster and take more risks if they are wearing seatbelts.
It's not really like saying that. But the important point is that concussion is caused by the brain hitting the skull, and a helmet does nothing to stop that.
It's exactly like saying that. Also, I hear the jury is out on your other point. It's true that it is the current sports science thinking but it depends on which study you read.


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Re: Paddy's manager speaks on his current situation

Post: # 1681348Post satchmo »

bigcarl wrote:
satchmo wrote:
bigcarl wrote:
shrodes wrote:
bigcarl wrote:
Asked if McCartin could return in a helmet - as Richmond’s Ben Griffith’s did last season after sustaining a number of concussions – Lucas said it was a possibility.

“It’s always an option but for every expert that says they are beneficial there is one who says they are not,” he said.
I'm the experts who say they are beneficial. You don't see many cyclists or motorcyclists without them.
There is also a theory with the NFL that the helmets lead to worse injuries because players lead with their heads (consciously or subconsciously) knowing they're wearing protection (which only reduces the impact, without eliminating it).

I've heard that, but the science on it is pretty sketchy. It's like saying people drive faster and take more risks if they are wearing seatbelts.
It's not really like saying that. But the important point is that concussion is caused by the brain hitting the skull, and a helmet does nothing to stop that.
It's exactly like saying that. Also, I hear the jury is out on your other point. It's true that it is the current sports science thinking but it depends on which study you read.
No it's not like saying that. The sense of protection that you get from wearing a helmet is not comparable to wearing a seatbelt (perhaps a full racing harness). We see it a lot at junior level, with some clubs having compulsory use in the lower age groups. It's like playing against human torpedoes.
And on the other point, yes, opinions vary on these matters. I think that was his managers point.


*Allegedly.

Bring back Lucky Burgers, and nobody gets hurt.

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Re: Paddy's manager speaks on his current situation

Post: # 1681468Post Teflon »

mr six o'clock wrote:
The_President wrote:I think you'll find that Bill was saying that Paddy is flat with the situation & footy at the moment.

Wouldn't you be?

Never said anything about struggling with the demands of footy.
Love billy
But would he really know ?
His best mate was tapping his missus and he had no idea (allegedly )
Fair question and you don't see Billy wearing a helmet ..


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Re: Paddy's manager speaks on his current situation

Post: # 1681495Post minneapolis »

Teflon wrote:
mr six o'clock wrote:
The_President wrote:I think you'll find that Bill was saying that Paddy is flat with the situation & footy at the moment.

Wouldn't you be?

Never said anything about struggling with the demands of footy.
Love billy
But would he really know ?
His best mate was tapping his missus and he had no idea (allegedly )
Fair question and you don't see Billy wearing a helmet ..
Or Gary Lyon for that matter.


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Re: Paddy's manager speaks on his current situation

Post: # 1681498Post Vazelos »

Paddy will be fine... last year it was Billings now he is flying...
Cream will rise to the top...
He will make an AFL career I am sure of it....


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Re: Paddy's manager speaks on his current situation

Post: # 1681504Post saintsRrising »

As satchmo said the brain gets concussed or injured by the brain hitting the skull.

Inside a skull the brain is surrounded by fluid.

When the skull is stopped suddenly the brain keeps travelling and is first impacted by the skull on the side opposite to the side tha is stopped.

Helmets essentially do nothing to minimise brain damage. What they mainly provide protection to is the skull itself plus skin and flesh. So where if you have a broken cheekbone etc.

For severe impact at high speed yes a rigid motorcycle would stop the skull and hence brain being smashed. However at high speed while the skull may survive the bran would still receive so much trauma that one would either die or be so damaged that you may as well be. Ie like the formula one driver who hit a tree while skiing. Nikki Lauda was it?


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Re: Paddy's manager speaks on his current situation

Post: # 1681505Post WellardSaint »

saintsRrising wrote:As satchmo said the brain gets concussed or injured by the brain hitting the skull.

Inside a skull the brain is surrounded by fluid.

When the skull is stopped suddenly the brain keeps travelling and is first impacted by the skull on the side opposite to the side tha is stopped.

Helmets essentially do nothing to minimise brain damage. What they mainly provide protection to is the skull itself plus skin and flesh. So where if you have a broken cheekbone etc.

For severe impact at high speed yes a rigid motorcycle would stop the skull and hence brain being smashed. However at high speed while the skull may survive the bran would still receive so much trauma that one would either die or be so damaged that you may as well be. Ie like the formula one driver who hit a tree while skiing. Nikki Lauda was it?
michael shumacher
There was a suggestion that his damage was aggravated by a GoPro mounted on his helmet, or so I read on the net
I have a strong LED light for my bicycle, I can attach it to my helmet via a special helmet mount, but I never will,
don't want to risk that thing becoming a dangerous weapon on impact


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Re: Paddy's manager speaks on his current situation

Post: # 1681513Post 6621104 »

Helmets: do prevent brain injury. Those with a rigid outer shell (not used in Australian football) are designed to spread the force of an impact over a wider area(thus they need to be tight fitting) causing less localisation and force per unit area. They are also designed to fracture dissipating some of the force via this means - better a cracked helmet that a cracked skull.
The foam inner layer is designed to slow the transmission of the impact energy wave and the brain deformation it causes.
Thus- instead of skull fractures, brain contusion (bruising) and bleeding we get a less severe type of injury- a concussion.
Whilst what exactly happens in concussion is not known the most current theories suggest the energy of impact causes brain shift, rotational and shear type forces within the central area and what is called the brain stem. Any visible brain injury is likely to be microscopic- there is no visible injury using current imaging techniques.
Will a helmet help Paddy? Yes as a greater impact will be needed for the same degree of brain movement.


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Re: Paddy's manager speaks on his current situation

Post: # 1681612Post saintsRrising »

6621104 wrote:Helmets: do prevent brain injury.

Those with a rigid outer shell (not used in Australian football) are designed to spread the force of an impact over a wider area(thus they need to be tight fitting) causing less localisation and force per unit area. They are also designed to fracture dissipating some of the force via this means - better a cracked helmet that a cracked skull.
The foam inner layer is designed to slow the transmission of the impact energy wave and the brain deformation it causes.
Thus- instead of skull fractures, brain contusion (bruising) and bleeding we get a less severe type of injury- a concussion.
Whilst what exactly happens in concussion is not known the most current theories suggest the energy of impact causes brain shift, rotational and shear type forces within the central area and what is called the brain stem. Any visible brain injury is likely to be microscopic- there is no visible injury using current imaging techniques.
Will a helmet help Paddy? Yes as a greater impact will be needed for the same degree of brain movement.
Helmets quite clear DO NOT prevent brain injury. At absolute best they may assist in reducing it by a small amount.

We are also talking AFL here..and if you review most of the published articles on brain injury they tend in the main express the view that helmets are not that useful in protecting against concussion.

Neurosurgeon Professor Gavin Davis says that while helmets, especially soft shell helmets used in AFL, are useful in preventing skull fractures and scalp lacerations, they do not protect against concussion.

“Given that helmets in AFL and NRL do not prevent concussion, I do not advocate their universal use, but accept that the helmet often provides comfort to the child’s parents in thinking they are being proactive in assisting with their child’s well-being,” he said.


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Re: Paddy's manager speaks on his current situation

Post: # 1681657Post repta »

The science behind helmets is not rocket science... (or neuroscience)

For all those tea try this experiment. Wrap something around your head ... say a towel ali barber style ... Then bang your head against. Take off the towel and go bang your head again.
Which hurts more and which does the biggest damage.

Silly experiment ... not really ... Most concussions are coming from hitting the ground. Docklands if so hard it is not far off concrete.
Even a small amount of padding will help.


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Re: Paddy's manager speaks on his current situation

Post: # 1681658Post bobmurray »

minneapolis wrote:
Teflon wrote:
mr six o'clock wrote:
The_President wrote:I think you'll find that Bill was saying that Paddy is flat with the situation & footy at the moment.

Wouldn't you be?

Never said anything about struggling with the demands of footy.
Love billy
But would he really know ?
His best mate was tapping his missus and he had no idea (allegedly )
Fair question and you don't see Billy wearing a helmet ..
Or Gary Lyon for that matter.
Mrs Brownless obviously preferred Gary's helmet.


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