Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

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thejiggingsaint
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Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679121Post thejiggingsaint »

Firstly, I have no axe to grind whatsoever with the Western Bulldogs footy club. I bear them no Ill will whatsoever. However, I'm a wee bit miffed at how the media, pundits and (apparently) the football public at large are making this HUGE deal about the doggies and their ( so-called ) "Premiership hangover".

I may be seen as being overly critical of them, but I really don't consider them in the same ilk as Hawthorn, Sydney or Geelong when it comes to being Premiers. YES, they achieved an absolutely fantastic record in winning the flag from the position of seventh on the ladder. But I can't honestly see them being a multi-premiership winning side.

I tend to agree with the assessment of Cam Mooney who (while acknowledging their great Finals success ) did not rate them as the "best side of 2016" and that if the season had concluded at round 23 the Bulldogs would have been the 7th-best performed side. He did say that they were by far the very best FINALS side of 2016.

The Bulldogs haven't been a top four side since 2010, and I don't see them being up there this year. So, far from this being a "premiership hangover" In my humble opinion, the Doggies are exactly where they deserve to be.


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679125Post chook23 »

And your point being????
Bulldogs people would say so what and watch the Premiership game again.....the rest of supporters please yourself...


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679126Post skeptic »

It's not such an easy game with only 18 players on the ground


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679127Post Winmar »

They showed the benefit of being thereabouts in an even year. As long as you're in the finals, anything can happen when there's not dominant side. I'm not overly surprised they're where they are now.


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679134Post thejiggingsaint »

[quote="chook23"]And your point being????
Bulldogs people would say so what and watch the Premiership game again.....the rest of supporters please yourself...[/quote]

My point being: that yes, the Doggies confounded the pundits, confounded ( ahem ) " accepted wisdom" that no side outside the top four can win the flag. BUT are they going to be one of the GREAT premiership sides? Well I'd argue that as yet, they're not a consistent top four side.
I take on board your point about doggies supporters enjoying the premiershipof 2016, no argument from me. What I can't understand is how all the commentators are scratching their collective heads at "how far the Bulldogs have fallen in 2017" well, excuse me, but it's not ALL that far to fall from their H&A position of 2016.
If I'm honest, IF the Saints were to win the flag in the next year or two, I'd want them to be repeating it! ORat least being consistently the side to best for the premiership. THATS the point Im making.


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679138Post Moods »

They did win 15 H&A games last year. In previous years that has been enough to make top 4. The best team won 17 last year. Hardly miles off it. They lost games last year due to a massive injury list, which they were able to replenish due to the bye (and I have no issue with that at all) They proved to me that they were the best team in the comp LAST year by beating more fancied teams on their home deck in the finals. What more can they do? The swans entered the GF in great form and the doggies won the game running away. For mine they were deserved winners and this talk of them finishing 7th etc etc is rubbish to me. If it causes ppl to question their flag, why bother having a top 8? Why even play games between 7th and 8th? Why not just have a top 4 as they are the only teams that are worthy winners.

Even in the NBA the top 8 from each division make the play-offs. The fact that the teams in the bottom rungs of the play-offs rarely advance says that they aren't that good. Same goes for AFL. The fact that the doggies did advance indicated to me that they were the real deal. You don't fluke 4 weeks in a row in finals, particularly when 2 of the games are interstate.

They have been cruelled by injuries again this year in what is a very even season. The top team has lost 3 games already FFS. I think they have a great list and will contend for the next 5 yrs.


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679139Post ace »

Myth: There is a football club called the Western Bulldogs - FALSE
They are the Footscray Football Club.


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679140Post WellardSaint »

100% agree with the Jiggster.

They had a fair bit of luck, and they played out of their skins last year,
they played well above themselves. Previously unknown guys like Picken,
who nobody thought were elite, suddenly became matchwinners.

This year they have returned to where they belong.
Stringer is quiet, Libba was dropped, JJ has no real impact,
Boyd and Wood are nothing like last year.


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679148Post Jacks Back »

And yet they still thrashed us. What does that tell you?


As ex-president Peter Summers said:
“If we are going to be a contender, we may as well plan to win the bloody thing.”


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679149Post SydneySainter »

Jacks Back wrote:And yet they still thrashed us. What does that tell you?
That we're way out of form, or we're not that good.


Until we have an administration that demands success and a playing group that bleeds for the guernsey, St. Kilda will just be a sh*tty football club.
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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679160Post spert »

Well the Dogs look in their premiership cabinet and see two cups, we only see one.

You make your own luck, and the Dogs were great team last year when it counted, and great teams win premierships, with every player doing their job- not a few stars who you hope will fire on the day.

Opposition coaches are not going to sit on their hands and watch this all happen, and this season a lot more pressure has been put on the Dogs engine room and the ability to move the ball quickly forward, and cleanly at a manic pace. All it takes is a little less intensity, and you lose the contest. I noticed quite a few Dogs players against Melbourne, were holding on to the ball and trying to take on the opposition, and losing possession, rather than doing the lightning handballs of last year

Our effort against the Dogs and Swans was really poor (and not much better against other teams), and the required intensity was not there- Richo seems intent on trying get us to play the fast ball movement at all costs game, but has got it wrong largely.


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679164Post Johnny Member »

spert wrote:Well the Dogs look in their premiership cabinet and see two cups, we only see one.

You make your own luck, and the Dogs were great team last year when it counted, and great teams win premierships, with every player doing their job- not a few stars who you hope will fire on the day.

Opposition coaches are not going to sit on their hands and watch this all happen, and this season a lot more pressure has been put on the Dogs engine room and the ability to move the ball quickly forward, and cleanly at a manic pace. All it takes is a little less intensity, and you lose the contest. I noticed quite a few Dogs players against Melbourne, were holding on to the ball and trying to take on the opposition, and losing possession, rather than doing the lightning handballs of last year

Our effort against the Dogs and Swans was really poor (and not much better against other teams), and the required intensity was not there- Richo seems intent on trying get us to play the fast ball movement at all costs game, but has got it wrong largely.
I think the change of interpretations from the umpires have hurt the Dogs more than anything this year.

What they were allowed to get away with last season, in particular during the finals series was nothing short of a disgrace.


They're still getting away with it, but nearly as much and now other teams are also


Their differential last year was +112 FFS!!

Yes, that's right +112 Frees For!


This year they're still getting away with it, but nearly as much - they're only +35 this season.


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679165Post Johnny Member »

FYI, we were -22 last year, and are -10 this year.


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679169Post WellardSaint »

Jacks Back wrote:And yet they still thrashed us. What does that tell you?
1. It was shortly after Sledgegate,
where the players were apparently a bit jaded and had lost focus and hunger.
2. Bevo outcoached Richo because, simply, he is a better coach.
3. Our guys didn't stick to the game plan
4. skills were non-existent
5. Far too many handballs by us, they pressured us into turnovers

that's enough reasons right there


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679171Post Bernard Shakey »

Dogs would not have got past the first week of the finals but for the bye after round 23.

They are about where they belong this year, as are we. We have more upside than the Dogs.


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679175Post thejiggingsaint »

The point ôf my OP is NOT to bad mouth the Doggies, but rather those media pundits and experts who say that they've fallen from the dizzy heights of last year. My point being that they did ever so well last season but are not THAT great a side, that they can be compared to the likes of Hawthorn etc. I'm in total agreement with the points made by Bernard Shakey


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679177Post Linton Lodger »

The Bulldogs Premiership was a fluke, not that they don't deserve credit for their Finals form last year and the fact that they did steal it.

That has caused many St Kilda supporters to be frustrated and impatient. Unfortunately, it is pointless for us to hope for a fluke or good fortune.


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679179Post saynta »

Bernard Shakey wrote:Dogs would not have got past the first week of the finals but for the bye after round 23.

They are about where they belong this year, as are we. We have more upside than the Dogs.
IMHO, they were lucky.

The bye, Stevie J got suspended and Buddy got injured early in the grannie.

The stars aligned for them.

I knew that this year they would go backwards.

They are not a great team.


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679196Post degruch »

I still don't rate them as better than us, let alone backup premiers! Good on them for getting over the line last year though. Our putrid effort against them a few weeks back was a joke, they were ripe for a 6 goal defeat and we choked for the second week in a row against a lesser team.


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679297Post Con Gorozidis »

They will need a lot of luck but I am starting to think the Demons are an outside chance for a flag.

I still think - all things being equal - that GWS will win easily.

This is my % chance of winning the flag for this season:

GWS 60%
Crows 20%
Demons 10%
Cats 5%
Port 3%
Swans 2%
Tiggers 0%


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679314Post magnifisaint »

We have more myths than they have. They have the piece of reality that we want!


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679315Post dragit »

Johnny Member wrote: What they were allowed to get away with last season, in particular during the finals series was nothing short of a disgrace.
Yep, the umpiring in that GWS prelim was plain outrageous… we would have heard a lot more about it if anyone actually cared about the giants.


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679407Post saintbob »

WellardSaint wrote:
Jacks Back wrote:And yet they still thrashed us. What does that tell you?
1. It was shortly after Sledgegate,
where the players were apparently a bit jaded and had lost focus and hunger.
2. Bevo outcoached Richo because, simply, he is a better coach.
3. Our guys didn't stick to the game plan
4. skills were non-existent
5. Far too many handballs by us, they pressured us into turnovers

that's enough reasons right there
f****** Sledgegate, I'm sick to death of this being thrown up as an excuse for our s*** form.

The fact of the matter is we got ahead of ourselves after beating GWS and we actually thought we'd arrived.


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679409Post Con Gorozidis »

degruch wrote:I still don't rate them as better than us
:shock:

They actually won a flag. In the real world.

We cant even make the eight.

But sure. We are better. :shock:


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679464Post Moods »

Con Gorozidis wrote:
degruch wrote:I still don't rate them as better than us
:shock:

They actually won a flag. In the real world.

We cant even make the eight.

But sure. We are better. :shock:
This!

I'm sick of people saying the dogs were lucky to win, or they fluked it. Do you think they care?????? Would we????????

I'd kill to win just one flag. I don't care whether we came from 9th and were asked to compete in the finals because another team cheated. A flag is a flag. We finished top of the ladder in 09 with an incredible win/loss H&A ratio. Strangely no-one gives two f**** about that. I wonder why? If the H&A season meant so much, we'd have an English Premier league arrangement where the top team wins the cup. We don't though. It means jack other than gives you best pole position. The car that has pole doesn't always win the race, but has a good chance. The Dogs won the race last year. Circumstances in the form of good form and players returning went their way, as well as a couple of lucky umpiring decisions. Most years the premiers have a bit of luck. Mostly the team that wins it makes their own luck.

Were we unlucky in 09? No. We kicked terribly despite controlling most of the game. That's not bad luck, that's bad footy. Cats in 08, Kangas in 98, Freo in 2014 all were the same. The dogs are a far better team than us whether we wish to accept it or not. For one, their players rose to the occasion rather than choking on GF day. They have young players on virtually every line. They have a mobile strong marking ruckman in Roughead - we have Longer and a flakey Hickey. They have a superstar in The Bont. We have a smaller version who is only just starting to find his feet in Billings. We have an awful long way to go unfortunately, whereas the Dogs just need to find their mojo and they can compete with the big boys. Sadly we have shown that we cannot. Not yet anyway. We need far more run and spread through the mid field. Better skill to hit targets, and someone who can consistently lead up and KICK STRAIGHT.


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