Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679467Post degruch »

Moods wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote:
degruch wrote:I still don't rate them as better than us
:shock:

They actually won a flag. In the real world.

We cant even make the eight.

But sure. We are better. :shock:
This!

I'm sick of people saying the dogs were lucky to win, or they fluked it.
25th anniversary coming up, so where did the Saints finish in '97? Where did the Crows finish? Who was the better team? Do ladder positions mean anything, particularly once the finals are on?

How are they travelling this year? How's their recent record against us? Geez, we let them off with some shocking kicking for goal in our first game against them last year, then mowed them down in the second, not long before the finals.

Good on the Doggies for seizing the opportunity, but in reality I don't think they hold much fear for us...although perhaps they should, as we dropped the ball against them recently.
Last edited by degruch on Thu 22 Jun 2017 2:17pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679468Post Johnny Member »

Moods wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote:
degruch wrote:I still don't rate them as better than us
:shock:

They actually won a flag. In the real world.

We cant even make the eight.

But sure. We are better. :shock:
This!

I'm sick of people saying the dogs were lucky to win, or they fluked it. Do you think they care?????? Would we????????
I'm sick of people getting narky when people say the Dogs were lucky to win or they fluked it.

Cause it's true. They were lucky and they did fluke it.


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679489Post Moods »

Johnny Member wrote:
Moods wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote:
degruch wrote:I still don't rate them as better than us
:shock:

They actually won a flag. In the real world.

We cant even make the eight.

But sure. We are better. :shock:
This!

I'm sick of people saying the dogs were lucky to win, or they fluked it. Do you think they care?????? Would we????????
I'm sick of people getting narky when people say the Dogs were lucky to win or they fluked it.

Cause it's true. They were lucky and they did fluke it.
It's actually the biggest joke ever. How do you 'fluke' a flag? You can't. It's like saying you 'fluked' a world record in running. All the ingredients have to be there in the first place. You have to be capable of it. THEN you may need a bit of luck.

Some people are rich, successful, happy and healthy. Just lucky, pure and simple. :lol:


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679498Post Johnny Member »

Moods wrote:
Johnny Member wrote:
Moods wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote:
degruch wrote:I still don't rate them as better than us
:shock:

They actually won a flag. In the real world.

We cant even make the eight.

But sure. We are better. :shock:
This!

I'm sick of people saying the dogs were lucky to win, or they fluked it. Do you think they care?????? Would we????????
I'm sick of people getting narky when people say the Dogs were lucky to win or they fluked it.

Cause it's true. They were lucky and they did fluke it.
It's actually the biggest joke ever. How do you 'fluke' a flag? You can't. It's like saying you 'fluked' a world record in running. All the ingredients have to be there in the first place. You have to be capable of it. THEN you may need a bit of luck.

Some people are rich, successful, happy and healthy. Just lucky, pure and simple. :lol:
Its not like saying you fluked a world record at all.

In footy, you dont have to break any records - you just need to be better than other teams on a given day.

Steven Bradbury wasn't the best skater in the world, nor even in that race - but they all fell down and he won.

He fluked it. He was lucky.


You're absolutely right about having to have the ability to take advantage of your opportunities though. And the Bulldogs and Bradbury deserve full credit for that - but unless everything went their way to the point of ridiculousness, they wouldn't have won. Full stop.

The extent that the cards fell in the Bulldogs favor last year was akin to Bradbury's gold medal.


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679500Post dragit »

I'm genuinely happy for dogs fans & don't begrudge them, but I still think a LOT of things went their way that they had no control over…

I would have loved for the Saints 2005 or 2009 teams to have played the Sydney GF of 2016 or the Port Adelaide GF side of 2007.

That dogs side last year would have been demolished by nearly every other premiership side of the past 20 years, but they were in the right place at the right time and had an arm chair ride from the umps like I have never seen before.

When you win a flag from 7th, some important things have fallen your way. Good luck to them, much rather see the dogs winning than about 15 other sides.


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679517Post Moods »

Johnny Member wrote:
Moods wrote:
Johnny Member wrote:
Moods wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote:
degruch wrote:I still don't rate them as better than us
:shock:

They actually won a flag. In the real world.

We cant even make the eight.

But sure. We are better. :shock:
This!

I'm sick of people saying the dogs were lucky to win, or they fluked it. Do you think they care?????? Would we????????
I'm sick of people getting narky when people say the Dogs were lucky to win or they fluked it.

Cause it's true. They were lucky and they did fluke it.
It's actually the biggest joke ever. How do you 'fluke' a flag? You can't. It's like saying you 'fluked' a world record in running. All the ingredients have to be there in the first place. You have to be capable of it. THEN you may need a bit of luck.

Some people are rich, successful, happy and healthy. Just lucky, pure and simple. :lol:
Its not like saying you fluked a world record at all.

In footy, you dont have to break any records - you just need to be better than other teams on a given day.

Steven Bradbury wasn't the best skater in the world, nor even in that race - but they all fell down and he won.

He fluked it. He was lucky.


You're absolutely right about having to have the ability to take advantage of your opportunities though. And the Bulldogs and Bradbury deserve full credit for that - but unless everything went their way to the point of ridiculousness, they wouldn't have won. Full stop.

The extent that the cards fell in the Bulldogs favor last year was akin to Bradbury's gold medal.
I feel sorry for you. You're bitter and twisted. No way in the world can you compare Bradbury to WB. Not sure that WB's opponents merely fell over for them. They had to beat them interstate and on the biggest stage - with full strength teams mind you. And whilst the Bulldogs had close to their best team minus their skipper and a very important on-baller in Wallace - not to mention their best fwd in Redpath and their 2nd best fwd in Crameri, and another 1st choice player in Suckling. (that's 5 first choice players they had missing on GF day. I reckon if the fwds were fit and available Stringer definitely wouldn't have played.) They also played teams that were hardly ravaged with injury so where this extraordinary luck comes from I'm baffled. It's almost as if, as Saints supporters, we have to justify to ourselves that they fluked it to somehow make ourselves feel better at not winning one ourselves.


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679531Post Johnny Member »

Moods wrote: I feel sorry for you. You're bitter and twisted. No way in the world can you compare Bradbury to WB. Not sure that WB's opponents merely fell over for them. They had to beat them interstate and on the biggest stage - with full strength teams mind you. And whilst the Bulldogs had close to their best team minus their skipper and a very important on-baller in Wallace - not to mention their best fwd in Redpath and their 2nd best fwd in Crameri, and another 1st choice player in Suckling. (that's 5 first choice players they had missing on GF day. I reckon if the fwds were fit and available Stringer definitely wouldn't have played.) They also played teams that were hardly ravaged with injury so where this extraordinary luck comes from I'm baffled. It's almost as if, as Saints supporters, we have to justify to ourselves that they fluked it to somehow make ourselves feel better at not winning one ourselves.
Suckling was available.

Ward was concussed during the Prelim and missed the 2nd half. They beat a 17 man GWS minus their captain. The Free Kick count was 23-13.

Sydney lost Alir before the game, and lost Franklin (knee), Mills (hamstring), Kennedy (concussion) and Hannebury (knee) during the game.

The Free Kick was an extraordinary 20-8.


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Re: Some myths re: the W Bulldogs

Post: # 1679544Post MCG-Unit »

W Bulldogs the media darlings - even before their flag

As long as I've followed footy, they almost always get the better of the umpiring - never forget the Waverley days.....
Yet their supporters spend the whole game booing & jeering every week :shock: Shocking supporters IMO

As for the GF, the free kick count of 20-8 didn't tell the whole story, how many times WB threw the ball, & not pinged. Beveridge admitted as much this year


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679545Post SuperSaint »

Moods wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote:
degruch wrote:I still don't rate them as better than us
:shock:

They actually won a flag. In the real world.

We cant even make the eight.

But sure. We are better. :shock:
This!

I'm sick of people saying the dogs were lucky to win, or they fluked it. Do you think they care?????? Would we????????

I'd kill to win just one flag. I don't care whether we came from 9th and were asked to compete in the finals because another team cheated. A flag is a flag. We finished top of the ladder in 09 with an incredible win/loss H&A ratio. Strangely no-one gives two f**** about that. I wonder why? If the H&A season meant so much, we'd have an English Premier league arrangement where the top team wins the cup. We don't though. It means jack other than gives you best pole position. The car that has pole doesn't always win the race, but has a good chance. The Dogs won the race last year. Circumstances in the form of good form and players returning went their way, as well as a couple of lucky umpiring decisions. Most years the premiers have a bit of luck. Mostly the team that wins it makes their own luck.

Were we unlucky in 09? No. We kicked terribly despite controlling most of the game. That's not bad luck, that's bad footy. Cats in 08, Kangas in 98, Freo in 2014 all were the same. The dogs are a far better team than us whether we wish to accept it or not. For one, their players rose to the occasion rather than choking on GF day. They have young players on virtually every line. They have a mobile strong marking ruckman in Roughead - we have Longer and a flakey Hickey. They have a superstar in The Bont. We have a smaller version who is only just starting to find his feet in Billings. We have an awful long way to go unfortunately, whereas the Dogs just need to find their mojo and they can compete with the big boys. Sadly we have shown that we cannot. Not yet anyway. We need far more run and spread through the mid field. Better skill to hit targets, and someone who can consistently lead up and KICK STRAIGHT.


Very good post. This is how it is. They seized the oppportunity the first time they got there last year. The Dogs have added to their history and did incredibly well to win the GF. We blew it in 2009, 2010 and 1997. They were all heart-breaking losses for the club and supporters. I envied everyone of those opposition supporters on those 3 days when the siren went and watched an elderly lady in her 80's cry on the way home on the train in 1997 saying she won't see a Saints GF win in her lifetime. I tried to console her but she was right and true to her words. I also tried to develop a thicker skin in 09 and 10 but still felt similar if not more heartache. History doesn't remember the teams that blew it and I've witnessed three in my lifetime.


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679547Post Moods »

Johnny Member wrote:
Moods wrote: I feel sorry for you. You're bitter and twisted. No way in the world can you compare Bradbury to WB. Not sure that WB's opponents merely fell over for them. They had to beat them interstate and on the biggest stage - with full strength teams mind you. And whilst the Bulldogs had close to their best team minus their skipper and a very important on-baller in Wallace - not to mention their best fwd in Redpath and their 2nd best fwd in Crameri, and another 1st choice player in Suckling. (that's 5 first choice players they had missing on GF day. I reckon if the fwds were fit and available Stringer definitely wouldn't have played.) They also played teams that were hardly ravaged with injury so where this extraordinary luck comes from I'm baffled. It's almost as if, as Saints supporters, we have to justify to ourselves that they fluked it to somehow make ourselves feel better at not winning one ourselves.
Suckling was available.

Ward was concussed during the Prelim and missed the 2nd half. They beat a 17 man GWS minus their captain. The Free Kick count was 23-13.

Sydney lost Alir before the game, and lost Franklin (knee), Mills (hamstring), Kennedy (concussion) and Hannebury (knee) during the game.

The Free Kick was an extraordinary 20-8.
Ok - 4 first choice players. Alir can't even get a game this year. Hannebury was in the last quarter. Mills and Franklin played the game out. Franklin pinged his ankle, not his knee. Was moving fine as far as I can tell. All part of a game of footy.

Free kick count??? Who cares? Seriously. Bulldogs Lost Roughead who was/IS extremely important to their set-up in prelim final which most scribes acknowledged evened out the Ward loss. They had players like Dunkley and Cordy playing instead of Crameri and Redpath. You're grasping at straws.


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679549Post dragit »

Moods wrote:Alir can't even get a game this year. You're grasping at straws.
Moods wrote:their best fwd in Redpath and their 2nd best fwd in Crameri
Haha pretty ironic moods ^

Have you had a look this year? Redpath can't get a game cause he's a spud, if he's their best forward then they are in more trouble than I thought. Why would they bring in a washed up Cloke if Redpath & Crameri are such powerhouses?

We were very average last year and beat the dogs who finished 7th and will be lucky to make the 8 this year.

Last year was one in a million, but I am glad it was dogs fans that reaped the rewards - they deserve it as much as saints do.


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679563Post The_President »

I think you'll find that the package delivered a parcel to an unknown.


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679566Post Johnny Member »

Moods wrote:
Johnny Member wrote:
Moods wrote: I feel sorry for you. You're bitter and twisted. No way in the world can you compare Bradbury to WB. Not sure that WB's opponents merely fell over for them. They had to beat them interstate and on the biggest stage - with full strength teams mind you. And whilst the Bulldogs had close to their best team minus their skipper and a very important on-baller in Wallace - not to mention their best fwd in Redpath and their 2nd best fwd in Crameri, and another 1st choice player in Suckling. (that's 5 first choice players they had missing on GF day. I reckon if the fwds were fit and available Stringer definitely wouldn't have played.) They also played teams that were hardly ravaged with injury so where this extraordinary luck comes from I'm baffled. It's almost as if, as Saints supporters, we have to justify to ourselves that they fluked it to somehow make ourselves feel better at not winning one ourselves.
Suckling was available.

Ward was concussed during the Prelim and missed the 2nd half. They beat a 17 man GWS minus their captain. The Free Kick count was 23-13.

Sydney lost Alir before the game, and lost Franklin (knee), Mills (hamstring), Kennedy (concussion) and Hannebury (knee) during the game.

The Free Kick was an extraordinary 20-8.
Ok - 4 first choice players. Alir can't even get a game this year. Hannebury was in the last quarter. Mills and Franklin played the game out. Franklin pinged his ankle, not his knee. Was moving fine as far as I can tell. All part of a game of footy.

Free kick count??? Who cares? Seriously. Bulldogs Lost Roughead who was/IS extremely important to their set-up in prelim final which most scribes acknowledged evened out the Ward loss. They had players like Dunkley and Cordy playing instead of Crameri and Redpath. You're grasping at straws.
Who cares??

They were +112 Frees For for the season!

It was no one off in the GF.

They were +40 for the finals!!


To disregard that figure is folly.
Last edited by Johnny Member on Thu 22 Jun 2017 9:25pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679567Post satchmo »

dragit wrote:
Last year was one in a million, but I am glad it was dogs fans that reaped the rewards - they deserve it as much as saints do.
Bingo


*Allegedly.

Bring back Lucky Burgers, and nobody gets hurt.

You can't un-fry things.


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1679625Post Moods »

dragit wrote:
Moods wrote:Alir can't even get a game this year. You're grasping at straws.
Moods wrote:their best fwd in Redpath and their 2nd best fwd in Crameri
Haha pretty ironic moods ^

Have you had a look this year? Redpath can't get a game cause he's a spud, if he's their best forward then they are in more trouble than I thought. Why would they bring in a washed up Cloke if Redpath & Crameri are such powerhouses?

We were very average last year and beat the dogs who finished 7th and will be lucky to make the 8 this year.

Last year was one in a million, but I am glad it was dogs fans that reaped the rewards - they deserve it as much as saints do.
Yep, I'm aware of that (and realise it weakens my argument :) ) But when Redpath went down last year he was their best fwd. I actually rate him. He's aggressive and big and strong. Right now he's coming back from an acl. Bringing Cloke in was extremely puzzling, I always thought that. Crameri has been injured for most of this year and has struggled to find form as a result. We beat the dogs when Redpath and Wallace went off the ground. I was at the game, it was a great win. Not sure that one game defines either club though. Also saw the Saints lose to the bombers and North at the end of 09. People keep talking about how we have the Dogs measure. If that's the case I don't think it's overly relevant. We may match up well against them. From my memory we're 2-2 in the last 4 games. Not exactly dominant.


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1680238Post dragit »

A bit more 'special assistance' from the umps last night... the dogs really are the new hawthorn.


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1680239Post Con Gorozidis »

dragit wrote:A bit more 'special assistance' from the umps last night... the dogs really are the new hawthorn.
Dogs finished on top of the net free kick ladder in 2016 and are back on top this year.
Unbelievable.


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Re: Some myths re: the Western Bulldogs

Post: # 1680895Post Johnny Member »

Three clubs have queried the Dog's run with the umps apparently.


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